everywomanshero
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- May 2, 2005
- Messages
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Disclaimer:
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I do not always advocate group theory as commonly defined in "the community". There are many times, yes also in bars/clubs, when I feel men would have more success (in terms of actually gettting the girl) focusing on *one girl* they actually want right from the first word. However, group theory, used properly, is very effective in the right situation. The usege or appropriateness is beyond the scope of this post which is solely aimed at looking how conformity affects us. This is solely philosophical in nature, and is not intended to be a complete dissection of any process
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I am going to point out through some classic studies how conformity tends to affect people. The point of this is to understand that people tend to change their perceptions, opinions, or behaviors in ways that are consistent with group norms.
The question then becomes: Is the group norm to accept you as a cool guy or shun you as an annoyance? Because if either of these appears to occur without exception, chances are that people will change to remain consistent with the rest of their peer group.
Is there any evidence for this?
Sherif's autokinetic effect:
People are first tested to see what answer they will give. People are then tested in groups. People are finally tested alone again.
The results? When alone people give individual answers as we would normally expect. In groups people tend to converge on a normative value typical to that group, their answers become consistent with the group's average. Even when removed from the group people continue to give estimates consistent with the group norm. Once developed, the norm persists beyond the immediate situation.
Asch minority influence effects.
People were tested on a simple line task. They were first tested alone. They were later put into a group of people who unanimously gave the wrong answers.
The resullts? Less than 4% of people gave an incorrect answer when tested alone. When they were then put into a group of unanimous people giving the wrong answer around 1/3 gave the wrong answer also even though they clearly knew the correct answer. It only takes a group of about 4 people to achieve this level. Even with just 2 people the results are up to 20%. BUT If there is even a single dissenter, the results plumet down to around 10%. The most important thing about this study isn't that people will often adopt the group's answer, but that even a single dissenter can totally kill the conformity effect.
Mosocovici on minority influence
Studies done on if minority can influence a majority opinion.
Results? He found that a consistent minority can influence the majority, but an inconsistent minority doesn't do much better than the control. So minority can influence the majority, but only if they are consistent.
How in the hell does this apply to seduction?
More disclaimers: Generalizability is of course not proven by these studies, and the interested person can search for more specific studies. However, here is how I think this applies.
Asch's study showed even a single dissenter can remove conformity effects. That means if even one chic in the group is really into a guy, the others are less likely to persist in not liking him.
Sherif's study shows that people do look to others in forming their opinions, which means if lots of people in a group like a person then it is more likely for other individuals in that group to change their perceptions to be consistent and like that person also. It also suggests that the adopted opinion will remain consistent even when the group is removed and you are alone with a woman.
Mosocovici showed that minority influence is only really strong when it is consistent, that means even if a person in the group doesn't like someone that opinion would have to be shown consistently in order to have any real influence. If the person is at any time smiling, laughing, or showing other signs of inconsistency with this opinion (of not liking) then it should not be effective
************
I do not always advocate group theory as commonly defined in "the community". There are many times, yes also in bars/clubs, when I feel men would have more success (in terms of actually gettting the girl) focusing on *one girl* they actually want right from the first word. However, group theory, used properly, is very effective in the right situation. The usege or appropriateness is beyond the scope of this post which is solely aimed at looking how conformity affects us. This is solely philosophical in nature, and is not intended to be a complete dissection of any process
***********
I am going to point out through some classic studies how conformity tends to affect people. The point of this is to understand that people tend to change their perceptions, opinions, or behaviors in ways that are consistent with group norms.
The question then becomes: Is the group norm to accept you as a cool guy or shun you as an annoyance? Because if either of these appears to occur without exception, chances are that people will change to remain consistent with the rest of their peer group.
Is there any evidence for this?
Sherif's autokinetic effect:
People are first tested to see what answer they will give. People are then tested in groups. People are finally tested alone again.
The results? When alone people give individual answers as we would normally expect. In groups people tend to converge on a normative value typical to that group, their answers become consistent with the group's average. Even when removed from the group people continue to give estimates consistent with the group norm. Once developed, the norm persists beyond the immediate situation.
Asch minority influence effects.
People were tested on a simple line task. They were first tested alone. They were later put into a group of people who unanimously gave the wrong answers.
The resullts? Less than 4% of people gave an incorrect answer when tested alone. When they were then put into a group of unanimous people giving the wrong answer around 1/3 gave the wrong answer also even though they clearly knew the correct answer. It only takes a group of about 4 people to achieve this level. Even with just 2 people the results are up to 20%. BUT If there is even a single dissenter, the results plumet down to around 10%. The most important thing about this study isn't that people will often adopt the group's answer, but that even a single dissenter can totally kill the conformity effect.
Mosocovici on minority influence
Studies done on if minority can influence a majority opinion.
Results? He found that a consistent minority can influence the majority, but an inconsistent minority doesn't do much better than the control. So minority can influence the majority, but only if they are consistent.
How in the hell does this apply to seduction?
More disclaimers: Generalizability is of course not proven by these studies, and the interested person can search for more specific studies. However, here is how I think this applies.
Asch's study showed even a single dissenter can remove conformity effects. That means if even one chic in the group is really into a guy, the others are less likely to persist in not liking him.
Sherif's study shows that people do look to others in forming their opinions, which means if lots of people in a group like a person then it is more likely for other individuals in that group to change their perceptions to be consistent and like that person also. It also suggests that the adopted opinion will remain consistent even when the group is removed and you are alone with a woman.
Mosocovici showed that minority influence is only really strong when it is consistent, that means even if a person in the group doesn't like someone that opinion would have to be shown consistently in order to have any real influence. If the person is at any time smiling, laughing, or showing other signs of inconsistency with this opinion (of not liking) then it should not be effective
