"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

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greyfox's first date tip #13

Arioch

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I noticed in the boot camp book, greyfox says, "Never set up a date on a date." Was he referring to setting up the next date with the person you're on a date with, or was it intended to remind guys to not hit on other women during a date?

I ask because I had a first date last night. I walked her home, kiss (not the first), hug, I'll see you later. This is what I did. At the time, there was no doubt in my mind that I would indeed call her and set up another date, because this one for the most part was a ton of fun. I didn't even say something like, "Can I see you again?" I knew I would. It didn't even cross my mind until my friend asked how it ended, and thought that the fact that I hadn't confirmed a second date was a bad sign. Which would be funny, because she could be thinking the same thing right now.
 

"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"

You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.

And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.

Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.

The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.

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Anirak

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Don't worry much about it, just call her a few days after the first date if you want to set up another. I personally wouldn't set up another right then for a specific time, but you may do something general like "this was fun, let's do it again soon" or something like that.
 

Boner da Stoner

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JC I give you a big huge:down: that was a horrible response!! for shame, for shame.

arioch, greyfox was right in saying that and you have the gist of it. There's not much nice to say about a guy who sets up a date while on a date with the same girl.

It lends nothing to you in terms of mystery. Nothing, you set-up a date... she's already got a meal ticket, what more does she have to work for?
 

Legend

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what did you two do on your first date? Im curious to know since it seems like it went well.
 

donovan

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I agree. Just put it out there, but with NO firm attachments.

eg. "We gotta get together next week." then walk off.
 

"Stop Asking Your Friends What to Text Her"

Your buddy Dave has been single for three years and thinks "hey u up" is a valid strategy. Your other buddy Mike just got dumped and told you to "just be yourself."

You showed them her text. You asked them to decode the emoji. You drafted four responses and sent the screenshot to the group chat for a vote.

She's been waiting forty minutes.

Put the phone down. Stop crowdsourcing your love life. Type something that sounds like you. Hit send. Then go do literally anything else with your evening.

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Arioch

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Quick synopsis of the date

Because Legend asked, here is a quick synopsis:

--Long walk to a lake both of us had always wanted to go to but had never been (I totally thought that up thirty seconds before opening her door to pick her up).

--Swim at a lake in our underwear. Lots of darkness, lots of stars. I think it might have been romantic, but I really don't understand that term.

--Long walk back to town, with detour through graveyard.

--Discovered it wasn't nearly as late as we thought it would be, so instead of going to the one sh!tty pizza place that is the only place open after midnight, we went to the grocery store and picked up a frozen pizza.

--Went to my house, made pizza, and watched a DVD. She fell asleep on my lap.

--While she was sleeping is when I sort of panicked about the friend zone, so I resolved to kiss her when she got up, despite that taking such liberties with a sleepy woman is only slightly less sleazy as taking such liberties with a drunk one, and the fact that it implied I might think it would lead to something more, when I really didn't care.

--She got up. A little smooching.

--I walked her back to her dorm, but not all the way to her door. Smootch, long hug, back home to take a shower from swimming in slimey lake.

I would like to point out the context of this date is two students at a small liberal arts school in a tiny town twenty mintues' drive from one of the worst American cities (recently named worse than Detroit). So for me, it was a highly novel experience not having to leave town but not doing the same stuff there is to do here every night.

I'm thinking for someday (probably not next time) of implementing a scavenger hunt date, where instead of picking her up at the designated time I leave clues for her to follow to find me. I think I'd have to be more creative than I generally am to think up the clues though.

--
Arioch: Tall. Long. Great.
 

Proof

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Originally posted by Boner da Stoner
JC I give you a big huge:down: that was a horrible response!! for shame, for shame.

arioch, greyfox was right in saying that and you have the gist of it. There's not much nice to say about a guy who sets up a date while on a date with the same girl.

It lends nothing to you in terms of mystery. Nothing, you set-up a date... she's already got a meal ticket, what more does she have to work for?
Agreed, but i dont think it ruins you.
 

Arioch

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I'm not that easy. ;)

Wow, that was pretentious. OK, I'm not going to say I would never have sex on a first date, but that has been the trend so far.

My primary reason is the smootching was just that: smootching. I just wanted to say, "hey, I want to be more than friends," because that was what was on my mind at the time. And she didn't seem that into prolonging the smootching, and I assume that that was because she had hardly woken up and was still tired, though I suppose that might not be the case.

I suppose I could have reacted when she necked me a little when we were swimming, but she seemed timid about it, and besides, if movies have taught me anything, it's that two people having sex (or even making out) in the middle of the woods will die before the date is over.

Jeez, I thought discussing the date on this site would be more constructive, but instead it has lead me to just over-analyze everything to the point of second-guessing myself. I have learned that this is the point where I must accept that what's done is done. In two or three days I will call her and then I will really find out how I did, and until then, this will be the last time I think about this date.

--
Arioch: Tall. Long. Great.
 
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