Greg Adams on how dating changed in the last decades.

[Who Dares Win]

The guy is kinda pissed off sometimes but he has great knowledge of social dynamics.

 

[Georgepithyou]

His right, I really hate when dating coach's pretend it has always been like this.

Social media,the internet and smart phones have made a huge impact. Anyone who denies this needs to have their head checked.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Its night and day now compared to even 2015, and 2015 was night and day compared to 2005.

Can you timeline the major shifts and changes?

 

[GioWolf]

I started to skim through it but then went back and watched the whole 2 and a half hours. He goes through dating from the 90’s and how it’s evolved by decade to the sh1t show it is today. It’s a lot harder to get and keep a woman’s attention and there is a lot more distractions to take her attention away from you. He’s got some grim predictions for the future. But I agree with most of what he’s saying. I miss the pre-smartphone days when I could actually just call a girl, banter a little bit then set up a date.

 

[christie]

Well the sharpest decline was in 2015 when online dating became normalized, close to the advent of Tinder I believe. https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-a...m/public/4C7SSBIXSNFCLOJIGCWUOKDYTY.png&w=916 I saw dating for sport and female plate spinning really take off incrementally from 2005-2015. Lots of monkey branching and playing multiple guys, rather than really hunting for a boyfriend. I call it the Age of the Attention Wh-re.

maybe even earlier, in 2003, when more affordable/unlimited texting plans came out.

 

[Who Dares Win]

Can you timeline the major shifts and changes?

In can do it for you since Im in my mid 30s and in this business since early 00s.

The complications happened with this facts:

1)Old generation cellphones (calls and sms only) by early 00s

2)Smartphones (mobile simplified internet access) mid to late 00s

3)Facebook, HUGE deal breaker due to instigation to narcisism, beginning of the popularity contest and access to chads for any girl with no social contro over her actions, late 00s to early 10s

4)Social datings like tinder on mobile, easily available and low tech skills needed to use them, dating becomes like consuming goods and hypergamy skyrockets even for low tier women, early 10s.

5)Instagram, narcisism becomes institutional and to upload pictures you dont even have to bother to write something to make it seems genuine, it becomes the total acceptance of narcisism and attention wh0ring as default cultural setting, early to mid 10s.

Keep in mind that once of those things arrive they dont go away, they stay or get replaced from something worse.

In my experience the point of no return was late 2015, thats when not even a decent facebook was enough, at that point even average guys begun to be considered unworth from low tier women.

Also keep in mind that this technology terraformed countries, while dating in the uk or south europe has always been crappy before this social media cancer dating in central and estern europe was great, really great.

 

[SW15]

Both of the following posters are around the same age as I am and have had similar experiences.

Well the sharpest decline was in 2015 when online dating became normalized, close to the advent of Tinder I believe. https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-a...m/public/4C7SSBIXSNFCLOJIGCWUOKDYTY.png&w=916 I saw dating for sport and female plate spinning really take off incrementally from 2005-2015. Lots of monkey branching and playing multiple guys, rather than really hunting for a boyfriend. I call it the Age of the Attention Wh-re.

Tinder launched in 2012. It was normal by around 2014, but using 2015 as a year when swiping became normalized is fine.

2005-2015 was not a great era for dating. In 2005, I was brand new to a city after college graduation. I was looking to date. In 2011, I was also brand new to a city and looking to date. I remember a conversation that I had with my uncle in 2012 talking about how much worse dating in 2011-12 was compared to 2005. The two cities I was comparing were similar enough that the variable of city would have been irrelevant. Attention whorring got big in that time. MySpace was full of attention whorres, and it was still the biggest social media platform in 2005-06. Fall 2006 is when Facebook opened up to non-college students. Facebook had some attention whorring going on in 2004-06 when it was college students only. Facebook was attention whorre central from 2007-2010. Instagram superseded it in the early 2010s. Facebook is now an old person's platform.

In terms of dating, there was more approaching in person from 2005-2012. However, dating sites like OkCupid and PlentyofFish gained a lot of popularity in that time. The shift toward meeting dates behind an electronic screen had its start in that time frame but it was the swipe apps that mainstreamed it.

What I observed from 2005-15 is similar to what you observed. More hypergamy, worse attitudes, an upping in ghosting and flaking, etc.

1)Old generation cellphones (calls and sms only) by early 00s

This was not too bad, at least compared to things to come. While the dating environment of 1999-2006 (ages 16-23 for me) was far from ideal, there are elements of that era I was nostalgic for by 2018-19.

2)Smartphones (mobile simplified internet access) mid to late 00s

This made capturing attention in approaches and maintaining it without distraction much more difficult. This happened almost immediate. This was a challenge by 2010.

3)Facebook, HUGE deal breaker due to instigation to narcisism, beginning of the popularity contest and access to chads for any girl with no social contro over her actions, late 00s to early 10s

5)Instagram, narcisism becomes institutional and to upload pictures you dont even have to bother to write something to make it seems genuine, it becomes the total acceptance of narcisism and attention wh0ring as default cultural setting, early to mid 10s.

Agree. Instagram was the evolution of early Facebook.

4)Social datings like tinder on mobile, easily available and low tech skills needed to use them, dating becomes like consuming goods and hypergamy skyrockets even for low tier women, early 10s.

Keep in mind that once of those things arrive they dont go away, they stay or get replaced from something worse.

In my experience the point of no return was late 2015, thats when not even a decent facebook was enough, at that point even average guys begun to be considered unworth from low tier women.

Also keep in mind that this technology terraformed countries, while dating in the uk or south europe has always been crappy before this social media cancer dating in central and estern europe was great, really great.

The United States was always bad but got worse after 2005-06. It took longer for some other countries to catch up to the United States, Canada, Western Europe, and Australia, which are the worst. Even 2015-2019 Central/Eastern Europe, while not as good as 2010 Central/Eastern Europe, is still better than the USA in terms of the environment surrounding dating.

 

[Romanemp22]

Question for older Djs: How drastic do you notice women became harder to even talk to comparing it to maybe 2010?

 

[Dash Riprock]

Well the sharpest decline was in 2015 when online dating became normalized, close to the advent of Tinder I believe. https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-a...m/public/4C7SSBIXSNFCLOJIGCWUOKDYTY.png&w=916 I saw dating for sport and female plate spinning really take off incrementally from 2005-2015. Lots of monkey branching and playing multiple guys, rather than really hunting for a boyfriend. I call it the Age of the Attention Wh-re.

I would agree with this.

I was one of the early adopters of online dating in the late 90s when you had 2 choices: Yahoo Dating and Love @AOL.com. They were like message boards and in the very early days you couldn't even upload a photo so you had to ask for one when you emailed the person. Everyone had their 1-2 stock photos to send people, lol. I met a few without seeing a pic first, and was largely disappointed. In the early days, the average guy's response rate was MUCH HIGHER than it is now.

I saw things start to change around 2005 also and as the tehcnonolgy got better, more sites popped up, and far more guys joined than women. OLD had a reputation for attracting "creepy" guys who couldn't get a date otherwise and other people thought the internet was full of weirdos and you'll get killed or raped if you go on an OLD date.

Another big shift happened with the advent of phone apps so when Tinder, Bumble, Hinge, and even SA came along, things went in a new direction. The result was what's called the Paradox of Choice where one cannot make up their mind due to too many options. The PoC seems to affect women a lot more than men in dating.

Iron clad rule: Men do the asking but women do the choosing. That hasnt changed. So the result now is if a woman (or the rare high value man) is on a date and it's not going perfectly, the other person will get dumped or ghosted due to the plethora of choice.

There's a short history of OLD, folks.

Happy hunting.

Dash

 

[oldmanofthesea]

I agree with what everyone is saying, but I think it is important to mention too, that never before has it been so easy for a man to learn how to operate with women than it is today, yet for some reason, so few men choose to seek it out. We here know things that 99% of men don’t. I didn’t know about game or red pill in my younger years and I really struggled because of it. Yet now, I have a massive edge over 99% of other men out there. I can feel it and I can see it. I see it when I look at how most guys who are in relationships are with women four leagues below themselves, or guys who cling to bad relationships because they feel she is their only chance. And I can see it and feel it on the approaches I make and the dates I have. It’s truly like a switch has been flipped. Whereas before I would feel like I was an applicant at a job interview hoping to be selected, it’s now the other way around. I see other guys on dates while I’m out and just cringe. Even with the bombardment of choice that women have, if you are decent looking, in reasonable shape, know how to communicate, are confident, able to escalate, able to guide women through their own defenses, and truly able to project your self-belief of high value, it feels pretty easy to me. What’s harder is finding women I feel are worth my time, and I am not always successful in closing with every woman I take out on a date, but I do honestly believe that I am not suffering many consequences of the changes in the dating world today.

What we learn here is like a cheat code that more than compensates for the changes in the dating world. It’s true that it has negatively impacted most men, and it’s even negatively impacted women too which does have an affect on us but overall, I’d still rather know what I know now and live in today’s reality than go back to being blue pill back in the 90’s.

All that said, I do think social media is going to continue to have increasingly extreme negative consequences on life in general, well beyond just dating. The code to crack and manipulate the human brain has been found and now nearly half the population is being played like brainless puppets and they have no idea what’s real any more (nor do they even care). Flat-earthers, anti-vaxers.... the list goes on and on.

 

[Lookatu]

I remember actual newspaper classified's back in the 90's. LOL
Then I was an early adopter of using Match back in ~2001 period and it was still good. But it has slowly eroded away from about 2004 onward and as others stated, starting around 2015 came the next biggest sharp decline.

Where's that EMP bomb to wipe out the internet, at least even for a few months to a year? That should hopefully detox people and kill off all the hardcore attention wh0res(literally by mental depression and suicide).

 

[Who Dares Win]

Question for older Djs: How drastic do you notice women became harder to even talk to comparing it to maybe 2010?

Its hard to answer because we were in our mid 20s by 2010 while we are in our mid 30s now, its a different demographics with different rules.

I would say its easier now but only cause my smv increased with age compared to when I was 25, probably my old 25 yrs old self would struggle now more than there.

One thing I can tell you for sure its that relationships come harder to anyone for the simple fact that women regardless the age are much more narcisistic, mentally unstable and with a high body count.

There were not such things as mgtow or willingly planning to keep women at distance (dating and sex only with no other plan) in the early 10s as much as now.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

I came here in 2010 and the knowledge more than surpassed the changes in the game. However, I think by now it has been overcome.

Really? You feel that even with what you’ve learned, the attention whoring incentives and the huge increase in options women have, has brought you back to pre-2010 dating success levels? Or maybe I should ask specifically what it is that you think is most difficult now.... for example is it getting dates, or closing on sex, or forming an LTR or finding sane women? Or all of the above?

I would say finding “sane” women is hard, but I was married for so long that I had little dating experience prior, and what I did have was a miserable failure. My ex wife was hot but nuts, and most of the women I meet and date now are nuts too, so I am not really sure I can blame societal changes on that.... I sort of just came to the conclusion through my recent experiences, my marriage, and what I’ve read about women’s minds and emotions, that it is just how women are and have always been, and it’s up to the man to mold the woman to him. You either succeed or fail in that effort. But even though my personal experience hasn’t proven to me that social media has negatively impacted women’s psyche, logically I totally believe that it makes sense.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

@LARaiders85 ok I got you, that all makes sense. Are in LA? If so I could definitely understand your comment about a bad dating market. I feel like there are bad dating markets scattered across the country, but if you are going to talk specifically about AW-specific dating market problems, LA and Miami have to take the cake.

Incidentally, I was a late bloomer too. I was literally invisible to women until around 33. It sucked back then but I’m extremely thankful for it now.

I see the same thing here about social circle dating though it really depends on how tight the circle is. I still find bigger social circles or even just big communities based around shared interests like sports and other hobbies work great. But LA is so status and tier-based.... bunch of social climbers... might be different out there.

 

[RickTheToad]

I like the dude, but I find him regergatating a lot of his stuff nowadays.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Pacific Northwest. I wish it was LA, for all the flaws you mentioned it is still much better than here. I went from a harem to relying on long distance relationships(with hot women happy to fly to see me on their own dime...my SMV is not low), vacations incl Vegas, and the occasional one night stand overnight simply by moving. It sucks.

I built a huge social circle of locals and got a grand total of 4 dates out of it, its absurd.

Ouch. Well hopefully you at least have the benefit of friends from the social circle. I was born and raised in the PacNW and moved away back in 2005. I wouldn’t want to date there. I’ve done some cold approaches since I learned game when I go back to visit and it’s just awful. People are very stand-off ish and everyone is SO uptight and self-righteous. I mean, it’s always the first place in the country where political protests turn violent on both sides of the political spectrum. I don’t find that many women attractive there either, although I guess it’s no worse than here in the SE where they are nearly all overweight and somehow proud of it. And the hipster vibe that permeates the NW just isn’t my thing. I feel for you!

 

[mrgoodstuff]

yup, you know better than anyone. Its shocking. No wonder you were a late bloomer lol. My friends all warned me but I didn't believe it could be that bad because I had good success in other tough markets before.

My friends that grew up here were similar, virtually no success(incel) or reduced to putting up with so much abuse from psychotic, power-mad women just to avoid being alone, and the second they left they all got great girlfriends and got married almost immediately, no matter their SMV.

Environment? You say they "left " and they got great gfs.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

location is everything. There is a reason why the OLD true believers are 99% from NYC...it works there because everything works there because there are more women than men. To the extent that "location" can be imported, I do quite well with immigrant women compared to the natives even here.

You mentioned that out of town ladies you could pull strong. In town you were artificially limited. Did you ever found out what it was?

 

[Romanemp22]

I haven't noticed it much. I don't deny the technological changes, after all I've lived through them as an adult since the internet became "normal" in the mid 90s. I've adapted in some ways and in some not. For instance, I never got into online dating. However I've used social media, though not really for pickup.

But overall I haven't found it any harder to talk to women than ten or even twenty years ago. If a girl is constantly on her mobile and ignoring me, I wouldn't bother. And in spite of everything, the easiest way I've found to meet women is by leaving the house and socializing.

I'm saying in terms since women today don't have to fight for attention from guys so much because of the simps and WKs that shower them with attention all day

 

[Glassguy]

Question for older Djs: How drastic do you notice women became harder to even talk to comparing it to maybe 2010?

In the 90s, nearly every girl was approachable. The highest value men controlled the top 20% of women.
Early to mid 2000s, women had more options when it became much easier to start flings and affairs, as well as new relationships altogether with text messaging and social apps. The highest value men still controlled the top 20% of women.
2015+ turned into women seeing what seemed to be an abundance of high value men who they thought they had at their beckon call. The lower/mid tier of men were sifted through and weeded out as orbiters. High value men still controlled the top 20% of women and also sexually used those women who thought they had them as a relationship option for sex only......making their "abundance of men" through OLD, fb, etc merely a mirage. Now we have a large % of the women over 30 who are bitter because their worth is nill and they have been pumped and dumped over and over.

High value men have always ruled the roost. Women have always submitted to them and will continue to do so. High value men will also make the top 20% of women work for them, as the laws of attraction have not changed at all in the last 20 years.
The biggest issue has been the lower 80% of men, how they have flipped over backwards for mediocre women and allowed those women to act that way....the opposite of how they will be submissive to men of higher value.
I think men's behavior has changed just as much and hurt the lower 80% of themselves as equally as the dating dynamics have been changed with cell phones to OLD.

The higher 20% of men are still doing the same thing but they have more women at their disposal now with social media and OLD. We are still getting dates, smashing and making them pursue the dream of a life with us.

Just my take.