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slaog

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I started this thread because there are many people who look to take all the time. Take as in constantly wanting women or others to make them happy. I think an important thing in becoming a better person is the ability to give without wanting in return. Give freely...



Always remember and be aware that you are a giver. The give I'm talking about is a positive vibe. You are a high value person who others like to be around because you make others feel good.

Because of your feel good vibe you attract people to you. You don't need anything off anybody like their approval etc and this makes you comfortable around them and they feel this comfort.



You are not a taker. AFC's are takers. They have a low value mindset and so need others for their happiness. They constantly want/need people to like them and this can be draining for the other people involved and eventually pushes them away from the AFC over time leaving the AFC to wonder why he/she is not "liked".

This is where people get the term 'nice guy' mixed up. AFC nice guys are always looking to take from people. They act nice but always want or need something in return. DJ's are nice guys who give to others. DJ's give without looking for anything in return.



Everybody gives out a vibe and people are attracted or repelled by your vibe.
High value people (i.e DJ's) like to give without needing to recieve in return.
Low Value people (i.e AFC's) constantly need things and want things in return for giving.


Some things to practise with people:
-Praise, don't look for anything or get upset if you get nothing in return.
-Compliment, don't look for anything or get upset if you get nothing in return.
-Salute people, don't look for anything or get upset if you get nothing in return.
-Help people, don't look for anything or get upset if you get nothing in return.
-Encourage, don't look for anything or get upset if you get nothing in return.



I'll give an example.
I was walking with my (very AFC) cousin one day and he got upset because he said "hi" to somebody we were passing and the person didn't say nothing back. My cousin wanted something from a stranger and got upset when he didn't get what he wanted.

A DJ wouldn't give a flying fvck if another person didn't say "hi" back. Why? Because DJ's are not looking for anything in return. They have self love and unshakable confidence. They're not worried about getting nothing but it's the getting nothing that cause pain to some people. Yes thats right people get upset for getting nothing!!!!

People hold back and are afraid of rejection when they want something off somebody ie a girl to accept them. Give the girl the pleasure of talking to you and being in your company. Think like that and thats the vibe you'll give.

I think a big part of shyness is the inability to give because of the fear of not getting anything in return. For instance shy people look away when being looked at because thats easier then holding eye contact ie giving people a good feeling. It's something to keep in mind and be conscious of when interacting with people.



To to sum it all up, give freely without wanting anything from anybody. The irony and best thing about this all is you'll receive what you give out!
Give to people, people will give to you. :up:
 
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Voice

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I totally agree with you. Great points, I've never looked at things like this before.
 

02hero

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Nice post OP, a rep for you sir. It's OK I don't expect to be repped in return......:D
 

Groovy

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Very good! And inspirational! I have got to remind myself of this one... :D
 

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Desert Fox

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hmm interesting but I prefer to be the guy who is hard to get and people vie for my attention.

I know people who give all the time and guess what the girls say about him when I bang them? "he's such a nice guy."

HAHAHAHAH
 

slaog

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Thank you for the kind words folks!

Desert Fox said:
hmm interesting but I prefer to be the guy who is hard to get and people vie for my attention.

I know people who give all the time and guess what the girls say about him when I bang them? "he's such a nice guy."

HAHAHAHAH
I spoke about why women are not attracted to AFC nice guys. It's because they are looking for something off the women. They give women gifts to receive something in return and it's obvious.

Giving freely is a mindset and you don't give freely if you want something in return.


You may not give much but at least you don't come accross as needing women for your happiness.


Are you in a LTR?
 

Desert Fox

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slaog said:
Thank you for the kind words folks!



I spoke about why women are not attracted to AFC nice guys. It's because they are looking for something off the women. They give women gifts to receive something in return and it's obvious.

Giving freely is a mindset and you don't give freely if you want something in return.


You may not give much but at least you don't come accross as needing women for your happiness.


Are you in a LTR?
right but even if you don't expect something, you probably aren't gonna get it. no i'm not in a ltr. longest relationship i've been in lasted 3-4 weeks, can't remember. i got bored fast and stopped talking to her...dunno why but i find ppl annoying if i'm around one same person too long :\
 

Groovy

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You aren't gonna get it?! :rolleyes: DUDE, you get everything! At the very least, even if you don't get anything, you feel good about yourself because you know you're cool! :cool:

I also always try to be nice! Girls may label me as nice guy... Even better! :p Give, don't except anything back... The other part that's missing: Don't take crap! Only take good things. If someone is bugging you with their bad vibes, and doesn't want to get along with you... you walk away. And if I give attention... It's because I want to, but if some girl doesn't deserve it because she's being a pain in the neck... You know what I'm gonna do! (Get the hell out of there! :crackup: ) It's her loss! :D See ya!

Girls will chase you with this mentality, because if they give you ****, or anything like that, it doesn't matter, because you don't take bad things. And they will come to you because you give. :up: And you're also genuine, it makes you an amazing fellow!

Basicly: Give freely... But don't take anything negative! Your repay is that people will ALWAYS want to be around you, they want to get in the vibe too! :D Remember feelings are contagious, and are yours worth cathing? Yeah!
 

slaog

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Desert Fox said:
right but even if you don't expect something, you probably aren't gonna get it.
It doesn't matter if you get nothing from nobody. You're giving to make others feel better about themselves and yes when you do live like this you do get good things back in return.


Desert Fox said:
no i'm not in a ltr. longest relationship i've been in lasted 3-4 weeks, can't remember. i got bored fast and stopped talking to her...dunno why but i find ppl annoying if i'm around one same person too long :\
This isn't a PUA thread. This thread is a tip for becoming a better man. When you improve and become a better man women will find you more attractive and they'll want to be with you. You'll get many LTR's with quality women.

Look at peoples bright side and you may not find them so annoying.

Also remember that there is a thing called the ego. People are controled by their egos which means they act unconsciously (they react and don't mean many things they say). If somebody is being annoying just know its the ego at work.
 

SinJester

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Great post!

I've been thinking stuff like this myself a lot recently. Giving a lot does not make you an AFC, giving away your power or giving something in order to try and get something return is being an AFC.
 

drtk

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So true.
Give, give, give but don't give up :up:
 

Desert Fox

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I read this post again, and I have to say that only fools give and give without getting in return. I am not talking about expecting to get stuff in return, but those who expect to get things in return by planning their actions so they are ensured a return will ALWAYS get more than those who just do whatever and leave it to chance what they get.

You have to often twist the arms of even people you need to get things from for professional matters...think about what they would give if their jobs were NOT at stake and nobody was pressuring them? NOTHING. Most people are idiots and selfish *******s. If you're not one step ahead of them all the time and set up traps for them to conveniently fall into and heed your will or be destroyed, then you will lose in this game of life.

Everything must be planned out meticulously, you must prepare yourself and live your life in a way that if the USA or whereever you lived was sent back to the dark ages, you would still be okay and self sufficient.

That's my take on this, I'm not agreeing with you because what I just stated in my paradigm on life. I admit it made me feel good to kind of wish I could just live like that and "give freely" as you say, but logically I know this is not possible and it will lead to a world of pain and backstabbing.

However, others seem to like your advice, to each his own.
 

slaog

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Desert Fox said:
I read this post again, and I have to say that only fools give and give without getting in return. I am not talking about expecting to get stuff in return, but those who expect to get things in return by planning their actions so they are ensured a return will ALWAYS get more than those who just do whatever and leave it to chance what they get.

You have to often twist the arms of even people you need to get things from for professional matters...think about what they would give if their jobs were NOT at stake and nobody was pressuring them? NOTHING. Most people are idiots and selfish *******s. If you're not one step ahead of them all the time and set up traps for them to conveniently fall into and heed your will or be destroyed, then you will lose in this game of life.

Most people are selfish because they have the same attitude as you! :yes: Don't you get it? You're logic is that you are being selfish because most people are selfish. They're selfish because they too think most people are selfish.

The way out of it is not to be like most people.
 

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SinJester

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Desert Fox said:
I read this post again, and I have to say that only fools give and give without getting in return. I am not talking about expecting to get stuff in return, but those who expect to get things in return by planning their actions so they are ensured a return will ALWAYS get more than those who just do whatever and leave it to chance what they get.

You have to often twist the arms of even people you need to get things from for professional matters...think about what they would give if their jobs were NOT at stake and nobody was pressuring them? NOTHING. Most people are idiots and selfish *******s. If you're not one step ahead of them all the time and set up traps for them to conveniently fall into and heed your will or be destroyed, then you will lose in this game of life.

Everything must be planned out meticulously, you must prepare yourself and live your life in a way that if the USA or whereever you lived was sent back to the dark ages, you would still be okay and self sufficient.

That's my take on this, I'm not agreeing with you because what I just stated in my paradigm on life. I admit it made me feel good to kind of wish I could just live like that and "give freely" as you say, but logically I know this is not possible and it will lead to a world of pain and backstabbing.

However, others seem to like your advice, to each his own.
You see in others what you see in yourself. When the world starts to seem bad you should take a good look at yourself. In fact Pook said something along those lines.

How does giving freely lead to backstabbing? If you think "I wont give freely because I would be hurt by not getting anything back" then you are not giving freely. I'm not saying you should not take anything for yourself, in fact it is my philiosphy that you have to look after yourself first. How can you give to the world if you have nothing to give? When you do give it is not to get anything back, but to make the world a better place, which is a big reward in itself.

I didn't think like this a little while ago, I was still too hurt and angry because of my AFC past where I gave too much. The difference was even though I thought I was a 'nice guy' I gave because I wanted something back. There was no difference in intention when you compare the old AFC me to someone who selfishly and agrresively goes after everything he wants. It is when you give without expecting anything back that something magical happens. Compare it to complementing a girl because you are being honest as opposed to complimenting her because you want to impress her, which one is going to work? Because as you give you receive, but only if you don't need it.

Something that help we realize all this was imaging my own funeral. If I died, what would I want people to say about me? If you do this it is a truly enlightening experiance because it helps get you in touch with your core values. For me, personally, I want people to say that I was the guy who made other peoples lives better and always would help out someone in need.

If you think you can't give to people then you are coming from a mindset of scarcity. It's funny how all this can be compared directly to seduction. With women a scarcity mentality fails, we all know that. If we think that we can't get any girls so we grab one and try and hold onto her we are the very definition of AFC. In life if we try and grab something and hold onto it because 'everyone else wants to screw us over', what does that make us?
 

Desert Fox

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Thanks for your response SinJester, my responses to you are in bold below. If you can answer them I'd understand your response and this tip a lot better, thanks in advance.

SinJester said:
You see in others what you see in yourself.

What do you mean "you see in others what you see in yourself." I've heard it before, but what evidence is there to support this? I see in others their flaws and their potential, that's it.

Something that help we realize all this was imaging my own funeral. If I died, what would I want people to say about me? If you do this it is a truly enlightening experiance because it helps get you in touch with your core values. For me, personally, I want people to say that I was the guy who made other peoples lives better and always would help out someone in need.

People will say good things about me anyways. That's the whole point of an EULOGY. If Bush died people would still say good things about him. I want to be remembered, but for something I did that will make people RESPECT me either through fear or admiration. Either way they are closely linked with each other.

In life if we try and grab something and hold onto it because 'everyone else wants to screw us over', what does that make us?

It makes us human. It makes us winners who have goals and stop at nothing to achieve those goals. What did you have in mind?
 

SinJester

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What do you mean "you see in others what you see in yourself." I've heard it before, but what evidence is there to support this? I see in others their flaws and their potential, that's it.
It's the way our mind works. I am not sure I can explain it in a way that will do it justice. I'll quote something that helped me.

There are many reasons why we don’t always get what we want. One of these reasons is because we focus on the opposite of what we want. Sometimes, we just can’t help it. But, if we are conscious of our thoughts, we can intercept these thoughts and shift our frame of mind towards our desired goals.

Have you ever been particularly annoyed by a person or situation? The more we complain about it, the more we notice it. The more we notice it, the worse it becomes. The next time we interact with that person or situation, we almost expect to be annoyed and thus subconsciously look for those small triggers that’ll make us annoyed.

In a similar example of an opposite scenario: Have you ever shopped for a particular kind of car which you’ve never noticed before? For example, a black SmartCar or a silver Toyota Prius. And suddenly, you see them everywhere? Similarly, have you shopped for a particular piece of clothing, let’s say a blazer style jacket for the spring, and suddenly you notice them everywhere?

Whether we focus on things we want or do not want, the truth is that What we focus on expands.
Now try this:

1. Next time you are walking or driving somewhere, or sitting on the bus or a car. Remember to do this.

2. Pick a color and focus on it. Look for that color in your field of vision as you’re moving about. For example, focus on the color red.

3. Do this for several minutes. Do you notice this color in so many places?

4. Pick another color and focus on it. Forget about the first color, just focus on the second. For example, try the color green.

5. Continue for several minutes. Scan your surroundings. Do you suddenly notice your second color popping up everywhere?

6. Repeat several times using different colors each time.
It happens to people all the time, like the example given where you purchase a new car and now you see them everywhere. What you see in the world is the same. You see what you are looking for. If you look for the good in people then you will see god, if you look for bad then that is what you will find.

Studies have be done that proves this kind of thing. People with two different political views read two articles, one that agreed with their views and one that challenged it. They found a lot of the time no matter what the peoples beliefs they would be likely to say that both articles supported their view. I tried to find the link to that but if I manage to track it down I'll post it.

Basically because you expect people to be selfish idiots you will see all the selfish and idiotic things they do. If you tried to take on a different perspective for awhile and looked at all the selfless things people do you will see that to. I know it is hard to comprehend because it seems real to us. Evolution wired us to believe our own bull**** strongly because it gave us a better chance at survival, it also made it so that we disagree completely with anyone who challenges us. In most case the two extremes are normally not the truth, but it is found somewhere in between. Politicians know this and use it to with votes along with a 'us versus them mentality'.

It's like we are all walking around with different shades of glasses on. We each see the world different and we think "if only everyone else would see it the same as me". The fact is we don't see the truth ourselves.

There is a old saying I read somewhere once: "Your swimming in the ocean" said one fish to another, to which the other fish replied "What ocean? I don't see it."

Are humans all good or all bad? Neither. Should we give everything we can or keep everything we have selfishly to ourselves. Neither. Absolutes don't work in reality. Also because you have those beliefs you assume that everyone else does. Like above we think that everyone else has the same colour glasses as us and we wonder why we disagree. In your post you say that everyone else are idiots and ******* and you have to set up traps for them, so you may be inclined to assume people think you are an idiot and ******* and that people will set up traps for you.

People will say good things about me anyways. That's the whole point of an EULOGY. If Bush died people would still say good things about him. I want to be remembered, but for something I did that will make people RESPECT me either through fear or admiration. Either way they are closely linked with each other.
Your overanalysing it. It has nothing to do with other people or your actually euolgy. I know that people always say good things, but the exercise it just designed for you to get in touch with your values. It seems you value being respected above else, personally I would also desire to be liked. If we disagree it may just be because we have different values, and you don't value giving. Just think, who is respected more, the selfish man or the generous man? Just because you are generous does not mean you have to be walked over or taken advantage of, it is possible to give from a place of power.

It makes us human. It makes us winners who have goals and stop at nothing to achieve those goals. What did you have in mind
If you grab onto something tightly your hand is not open to revive anything else. Holding onto anything too strongly is bad. However if you give your hand is open to receive. If you hang onto a bad memory the pain stays with you, if you let it go then the pain goes away. I completely agree with setting, going after and achieving goals. I would like be successes to benefit my family, friends and other I meet as well as myself.

At the end of the game the king and the pawn go in the same box.

It doesn't matter what we do, we all die. Whether we are 'winners' or 'losers', we are all equal. I believe that compassion is the cure for most of the worlds evils.

Hope that helped you understand where I am coming from.
 

Desert Fox

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Thanks for that I see what you mean now. I have a lot of things to think about. It's hard to let go what I have been living by, but I am willing to try focusing on the positive more and the better things in life.

One last thing to ask you though because this particular sentence caught my attention since it appears to offer the best of both worlds and is exactly how I aspire to be:

"Just because you are generous does not mean you have to be walked over or taken advantage of, it is possible to give from a place of power."

How can this be done? I feel I must err on the side of being more secure and more defensive/pessimistic/suspicious of people in order to secure this power. How can I be generous and not have to constantly watch my back all the time living a stressful life?

Moreover, how do I treat people who have disrespected me and taken advantage of my generosity? Or better yet, how do I prevent this back stabbing in the first place? Simply not worrying about it will not solve this, I think you will agree.
 

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Wow I'm impressed. Most people simply disagree, few are willing to look at a different viewpoint.

I find it hard to see how being generous relates to having to watch your back and live a stressful live. If you do a bit of research on positive psychology you will find that the happiest people are those that are generous and giving. They enjoy helping out other people and they, in turn, are happier for it. (http://www.amazon.com/How-Happiness-Scientific-Approach-Getting/dp/159420148X)

I would hypothesize that you are generous when you are feeling positive towards someone. Therefore feeling positive towards people comes before generosity. These peoples are happier, less stressful and healthier. Well as you can see:

Barbara Fredrickson et al. hypothesize that positive emotions undo the cardiovascular effects of negative emotions. When people experience stress, they show increased heart rate, higher blood sugar, immune suppression, and other adaptations optimized for immediate action. If individuals do not regulate these changes once the stress is past, they can lead to illness, coronary heart disease, and heightened mortality. Both lab research and survey research indicate that positive emotions help people who were previously under stress relax back to their physiological baseline
It is not so much the act but the feeling that comes with it. And then there's this:

In a tribal group there was no money. If you are wealthy in the sense that you had excess meat from a hunt, the best place to store your surplus would be the stomachs of others. The meat would spoil if you did not do this. Your wealth then becomes your enhanced status within the group and the expectation that people will reciprocate when you were in need.

It is a bit more complex than just that. Death by violence was extremely frequent in human prehistory. It was so common that during much of human evolution there were not enough men for the women. Polygamy became very common. Who got the additional women? The high status men that gained that status because they found pleasure in being generous. The higher status within the group gave the man with a generous spirit a significant advantage in the competition for the women. It makes sense that this generosity of spirit would become hard wired into our genes.

Seligman claims that there is a tenfold increase in clinical depression compared with our grandparents generation and that rampant individualism is responsible. An important part of this is the lack of wider meaning when there is no attachment to something that is larger than we are. Without wider meaning a personal failure of any form has greater impact.
You could argue that we are wired and meant to be generous because of evolution.

Now in order for you to have those views you have probably been mistreated, backstabbed or taken advantage in the past. Am I right? Don't worry so have I. We all have. However it us that makes the decision "oh well that person 'used me', I'll feel bad now". If you have compassion for that person it doesn't happen.

Think of someone that hurt you in the past. Do you think you know why they hurt you? Do you know the actual reason? Can you read their mind? Whatever the case I doubt you know the true reason, that person might not even know themselves. They are a person like you. Do you know their hopes, their dreams, their fears? Do you know about their childhood and how they were brought up? Do you know their beliefs and values? Do you know anything about the thoughts that go through their head every day? Have they ever been hurt by someone just like you have? The only yes is in answeer to the last question.

So even if someone does something wrong to you in your mind, it may seem right to them. It is all subjective. It may have been for the greater good. Perhaps not. By being compassionate you know that you might get mistreated sometimes, but you don't know why they did it and you don't truly know the person. This allows you to feel compassion rather than feeling like a victim. I'm sure we've all hurt people unintentionally in our lives.

If you truly give FREELY it is impossible for you to be taken advantage off. If you give with the expectation of getting something back you will be disappointed if you get nothing in return, and you will not always get what you want. Often we do get rewards but we simply do not see them. People do not often share their gratitude.

If someone disrespects you or takes advantage of you, you forgive them. Of course you do not reward them. If someone breaks your trust it has to be earned back, and that is not easy, nor should it be. If someone is not nice to you, it doesn’t not mean you have to be nice to them but carrying a grudge will do more harm than good. Anger is like holding a hot coal hoping to one day throw it at someone.

I think after all that you might see that being generous is perhaps helping you a lot more than it is helping others. First I think you need to try to change your view of people, little by little. Just started thinking about the good things people do more often, and look for them. Even looking at this forum there are heaps of guys giving their own time to help someone else out.

If you are still having trouble understanding then maybe I would be able to better help if I understood you definition of generous and how you think people would take advantage of you.

You ask how do you keep your power. Let me compare it to seduction because since you are on here I assume you understand it. When AFCs come here they are told you can't be nice to a girl, you can't give her gifts and you can't compliment her. This is of course the newbies perspective because before they were doing that far too much and in an attempt to get something. When you become more advanced you realize you in fact can and should do that, otherwise things wont work. In order to do this without becoming AFC, wussy and walked over there are a few things you can do.

1. Do it as a reward. This not only reinforces their good behaviour but allows you to do something good, to make you AND her feel good without being a walkover.
2. Don't do it all the time. If you only do it occasionally it is appreciated and sought after. If you do it all the time it is not appreciated and it is actually expected.
3. Don't be dependent on the outcome. If you do something to get something people can often tell. When a guy who is good with women gives a compliment it is honest and he doesn't care how the women responds. He might expect a good response but he isn't seeking one. He doesn't lie in order to get something. He is just being himself by giving the compliment, in fact to not do it would be to go against himself.

Those 3 rules can be directly applied to being generous in your life. Give to people who you think deserve it, and those who give to you. Don't give too much too often, make it count when you do (this doesn't mean be a selfish prick all the other times either!). Give when you feel it is right, not when you are expecting something in return.

That might help get you started on giving without worrying. Just as an AFC does not become a DJ overnight, nor does one become a happy saint or blissful monk in an instant.
 
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