Girlfriends & past strippers

[MacAvoy]

This is a subject that interests me because its something that I've had to deal with. RT made the following post in the main forum when a guy's friends told a new plate that he's been with a stripper and she's now bugging him as to how many times he slept with her. Everyone of course gave the never talk about your past speech. RT gave his Iron Rule, then this awesome elaboration and it really hit home to me.

I'm going to break it down by paragraph with my comments & questions below:

My other thought is this; women fear a man who knows his own self-worth. Nothing annoys them more, and nothing is defeats their own efforts to establish a relationship's frame than a guy who's had demonstrable success with a high-value woman. Regardless of realities, a stripper has the perception of being a high-value woman if for no other reason than that she commands a lot of male attention. Whether this is from her physique or her sexual availability makes no difference - the perception is still the same; many men desire her and YOU were the one she found acceptable. You ƒucked the stripper and therefore you have something that a high-value woman found desirable.

This is her benchmark now. The stripper is the one with whom she must compete - and BTW, this is precisely why most women hate strippers and hate porn; they both take sex out of a realm of mystery that serves the feminine in establishing frame - naturally it pisses women off that other women would demonstrably prove their sexual talents for a man they are competing for. She knows that she cannot compete, or is uncomfortable competing with the stripper, therefore she must find covert ways to devalue and disqualify the sexual experience you had with her.

And long planned feminine social conventions are already established to help her do so. The first is the stripper will be called a slut and thereby should exempt her from ANY man's long term considerations. Sluts can't be trusted, sluts sleep around, sluts are disloyal, etc., is always the first tool a woman will use in her disqualification of competition, irrespective of knowing any personal detail about the competition. Second will be the shaming of the guy for having "lowered" himself to ƒucking a stripper. This has the effect of devaluing his sexual experience with her for convenient and contrived esoteric reasons. He's the must become the flawed one for having done so while simultaneously having her 'save' him from himself by providing him with "meaningful" sex. Competition neutralized, and frame established in her favor.

I never thought of strippers as "high value women" because of the stigma that society puts upon them but RT explained it perfectly how a women would view it. If you've been able to land a stripper, then out of the hords of men that throw themselves at her, she CHOSE you.

I love the way in the next paragraph how he talks about how they must now compete with the stripper, and hate it cuz other women openly demonstrate their sexual capabilities to which they can't compete.

Finally in the last paragraph, he comes full circle and talks about how the women tries to devalue the stripper and shame the guy for HAVING to stoop to that level.

Now I'm quite proud that I've been able to land a couple of strippers. I don't hide it either, I'm not ashamed. I have no idea how my ex came to know about it, however we talked for 4 years before we actually hooked up so it probably came up somewhere in that period. However I know that it was mentioned a few times when we were together but I would never really get into it with her and she really wouldn't either except to devalue the stripper and make me look bad for lowing my standards.

However the way I combatted it was by being open sexually, she knows that I like skanky women when it comes to sex, she knows that Anna Nicole Smith was my fantasy (and I think she thought that was dispicable cuz of how "trashy" she was) I would also talk of almost every women as an object, she would always ask why I was so vulgar. However she realizes that I know the difference between sex objects and women I respect.

I think it was also an attempt by me to be the bad guy role.

So my question is, how would you combat a situation, if a g/f knew that you banged a stripper.

 

[Latinoman]

I never thought of strippers as "high value women" because of the stigma that society puts upon them but RT explained it perfectly how a women would view it. If you've been able to land a stripper, then out of the hords of men that throw themselves at her, she CHOSE you.

The same way prostitutes choose pimps.

Are you saying that out of the hords of men that pay to have sex...the pimp is the ONLY one that manage to get if for FREE and consequently that makes him a "valuable" man?

Many women would not go out with a man that is into strip clubs and prostitutes. It is more of a health or values issue. And a fear that the man might be into prostitution and the likes.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Many women would not go out with a man that is into strip clubs and prostitutes. It is more of a health or values issue. And a fear that the man might be into prostitution and the likes.

This is my concern. I dated a stripper several years ago, but I didn't know she was a stripper until after I banged her. Does this mean I'm absolved due to ignorance?

I just don't mention it. I'm not ashamed, but it's nobody's business anyhow.

 

[Mr. Wise]

how would you combat a situation, if a g/f knew that you banged a stripper.

I only had one stripper in my life and that was short term and no one knew about it. However, I did have a "hostess" as a GF and my GF at the time knew about it. She did talk down on her in order to bring herself up and tried to make me feel guilty about it. I just told her to imagine what it takes to be a hostess where you put yourself out there fully suseptable to rejection. You'd have to be very confident and comfortable with yourself as well as your ability to attract men. Much like the personality traits a girl would look for in a man. "So why did I date her? She's confident, gorgeous and very comfortable in her skin (thinking to myself she was very good in bed)". This chick would always walk around in my apartment naked and even eat breakfast at the table naked with me. Too bad my AFC came out and she ditched me. LOL

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Many women would not go out with a man that is into strip clubs and prostitutes. It is more of a health or values issue. And a fear that the man might be into prostitution and the likes.

Maybe so, but then, why ask for details about it? If that's the overriding concern why not simply exclude the guy from intimacy and be done with it?

Even if it is a moral or health concern, which is dubious if the man is high-value enough, the frame control and competition anxiety aspects are always an issue.

 

[drmeathead]

this all makes alot of sense. women want to use the ***** to control you. i mean if they didnt have that what else would they bring to the table really that you couldnt get elsewhere?

 

[Bonhomme]

Just do what you do. If a woman can't deal with it, all the worse for her.

 

[Last Man Standing]

Actually, common hors don't like strippers because they find them to be too overt in their sexuality and see them as just manipulating the male through her sexual organs - whereas, the common hor holds herself in higher esteem than the stripper hor because she manipulates the male through his lust for her sexual organs but she does it covertly, and thus, she sees herself as retaining her femininity relative to the aggressiveness of the masculine in-your-face stripper hor!!

 

[Latinoman]

Maybe so, but then, why ask for details about it? If that's the overriding concern why not simply exclude the guy from intimacy and be done with it?

Even if it is a moral or health concern, which is dubious if the man is high-value enough, the frame control and competition anxiety aspects are always an issue.

I know. But we all know that women thought process is very different to ours.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

OK, I realize I targeted this to the stripper situation, but the process essentially applies to your past GFs or lays. Women are competitive, far more so than men, it's just the way they do combat in the covert and psychological. Just as men communicate and fight in overt ways, women communicate and fight in covert ways. They fight with innuendo and subcommunications, with body language and interpretations of psychologies they've been socialized into over a lifetime. Many studies, both psychological and biological confirm that women have a far greater capacity for communication than men.

Women tend to think and behave in socially collective ways. From the time a young girl is 5 y.o., her social clutch is everything and a fate worse than death is ostracization from this group. That said women are far more adept at communication and language than men can ever hope to interpret. It's the 'dirty looks' and subcommunications where women compete. Psychological warfare is far more effective (and damaging) for women than physical fighting can ever be for men.

That's why the term 'slut' is such a wonderful tool for women. Women compete for attention from men. They use attention (both in their own circle and from men) as a currency for establishing their social status and affirming (though mostly subconsciously) their self-worth. When a woman calls another a 'slut' she's essentially saying "that woman sleeps around so much that she'll never make a good long term mate" or "guys shouldn't mate with her because she can't be trusted to be loyal." It's an attack meant not only to ostracize the 'slut' from the collective, but also to disqualify her from the attentions of any desirable male they happen to be competing for.

This is analogous to a guy calling another guy a "fag." He's essentially saying that this guy should be disqualified from a woman's consideration because he's simply not interested in the opposite sex. And naturally the more physically attractive a guy is the more ready we are to doubt his sexual prefernce. Placing doubt on someone's sexuality to the point where it disqualifies them from competition is a fantastic weapon.

While women have a natural preference to communicate covertly, that's not to say that this doesn't break down into an overt communications (direct telling of intent, crying, vocal outbursts) when it serves them better. In the instance where a woman is directly probing a man for information regarding his past GFs or sexual exploits, guys need to understand that the woman is at a point where she's exhausted all her covert means of getting this information and now feel forced to speak his overt language and ask directly. It's important for a guy to realize that this is just an integral part of her process for coping with competition anxiety and establishing frame.

 

[speed dawg]

Actually, common hors don't like strippers because they find them to be too overt in their sexuality and see them as just manipulating the male through her sexual organs - whereas, the common hor holds herself in higher esteem than the stripper hor because she manipulates the male through his lust for her sexual organs but she does it covertly, and thus, she sees herself as retaining her femininity relative to the aggressiveness of the masculine in-your-face stripper hor!!

Last Man should be a moderator, seriously. His way is the way to go, albeit to the extreme.

 

[STR8UP]

Banging a stripper in your past doesn't cause you to lose value.

BRAGGING that you banged a stripper might.

It would be like a 35 yr old woman making a "crack" at me for my last g/f having been in her early 20's. Most women demean strippers just like most older women demean younger women.....it's all about trying to eliminate a perceived threat. And it's actually pretty funny when it happens.

 

[bigjohnson]

It's the same reason women (and the men the can sway) are the ones who hate prostitution. It places a finite market value on a service they would much rather remain priceless.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Last Man should be a moderator, seriously.

God. Forbid.

 

[slamthedoor]

I think it was also an attempt by me to be the bad guy role.

So my question is, how would you combat a situation, if a g/f knew that you banged a stripper.

I think part of the reason a woman would ask questions about this is because she wants to know the frame that the man has established for the relationship. Many women don't know what they're supposed to do in the relationship (and in bed in particular). It's natural for a woman to want to follow a STRONG-WILLED man. She will test him to see if he's really strong, or faking it. Her questions are to A) learn what rules the man has established for the relationship and B) to test if the man is strong enough to maintain those rules despite her or anyone else's criticism.

I'm fairly certain that by telling the girl that you've slept with strippers, she'll be a LOT more creative in bed than she would have been otherwise. A woman will do anything in bed as long as she feels she has permission to do it. If you've already established the frame that being a 'slut' is acceptable, she'll gladly comply.

How would I combat a question like that? I would not brag about it. I would maintain the position that this wasn't something I was embarrassed about revealing to her. I would view any criticism by her as a test of me and would act accordingly. I would not let any criticism that she had of the situation or of strippers change MY feelings and I would make sure she was aware of that.