Gimme advice

[realsmoothie]

Give me some advice, or nail me to the wall for oneitis, I don't care.

There's a girl I'm interesed, she seems to throw me conflicting signals. She's very open and flirty with everyone, which makes things more complicated.

We fooled around (heavy petting) a year ago, and since then she has been very friendly to me... comes to my store and hangs out, calls me every few days. We have VERY frank discussions, but she tells me conflicting things. She continually reflects upon our one night together, telling me I was the best kisser she ever had, and that maybe I could be the first guy to make her come (!). She tells me to pop over to her place any time.

Then, I'm walking down the street with her yesterday and we bump into this guy. She says hi, blah blah, says "come on over later, if you want". We continue down the street, she informs me this is her "booty call" guy. And if I ever ask her to come hang out, she always says "maybe, I'll call" and never does.

WTF?

She doesn't have a lot of dating experience. She was with a guy from 17-22, broke up with him last year. Since then she's all over the map. I'm thinking that she just doesn't know how NOT to throw signals, and just loves the attention. So sad, because she's sweet, and pretty, and sexual as hell.

I know your first suggestion will be to just dive in and take the chance, and I agree this is obviously the best move. I am just wondering whether you can figure out her mind-set... is she just looking for a sensative friend she can pal with, or does she really find me attractive and is egging me on with all the coy play and "booty call" talk? I wonder if she thinks I am cooler than I am.

 

[Desdinova]

Give me some advice, or nail me to the wall for oneitis, I don't care.

So, you know your problem already. But you have another problem: not wanting to fix the first problem!

We continue down the street, she informs me this is her "booty call" guy.

She's fvcking another guy while you're busy being her girlfriend.

I'm thinking that she just doesn't know how NOT to throw signals, and just loves the attention. So sad, because she's sweet, and pretty, and sexual as hell.

No, she's fvcking guys that she is sexually attracted to. Guess where you are sitting.... in the Friend Zone.

I know your first suggestion will be to just dive in and take the chance, and I agree this is obviously the best move.

Wrong. My first suggestion is to quit putting all your eggs in one basket and sarge other women. Once you're dating 3-4 other women, you won't have time for your one-itis.

I am just wondering whether you can figure out her mind-set

Again, I'll clarify. She fvcks men she's sexually attracted to. She befriends men she isn't sexually attracted to.

does she really find me attractive and is egging me on with all the coy play and "booty call" talk? I wonder if she thinks I am cooler than I am.

When a woman's pvssy is dripping wet for a guy, she'll react by dragging his ass into the bedroom and fvck him silly. Has that happened to you yet?

 

[amoka]

smoothie, this lady got out of long time relationship. Do you ever wonder why? Don't you want to know why she broke-up with her boyfriend. The unwise thing you can do is to consider this girl to be the oneitis. From your post, I can envision this lady is in for FB. She likes your kiss better, likes your sex better yet flirting with other guys? Giveme a break. You should be fvcking her daily....

 

[LJC]

1) She just may be trying to tell you in a way that she isn't looking for a relationship with you or anyone else. You've basically got a FWB opportunity here.

2) There's also a possibility that she can see herself in a relatonship with you, but not right now, which is why she is still insinuating sexual stuff but wont act on it with you.

Either way, she probably sees you as relationship material, for whatever reason, and doesn't want a relationship right now. I doubt she sees you as just a shoulder to cry on right now, but always avoid being that guy anyway. She could change her mind if you allow that to happen.

Knowing the difference basically depends on how you're acting around her. And considering that you've been on this girl for at least a year now, my guess is #2. The moment she has sex with you, she knows the whole relationship process is going to start, so she holds off. She brings up things like booty calls to keep it from happening.

My advice is to just maintain for now and keep up the sexual talk, no matter what it is exactly you want from this girl. Keep flirting & teasing with her on that topic. Whatever you do, don't change what you've been doing. You might actually turn her off if you try to give the impression that you want to become just another of her booty calls. Sex will happen eventually. Just be patient.

In the meantime, take up other opportunities with other women to keep your cool, because this girl will drive you completely nuts if you're only focusing on her.

 

[Vulpine]

How old are you?

So, the "first kiss" barrier is already broken, you still see her, she gives you signals...

What is stopping you from just grabbing her up and making out with her again? Does she stop you? Have you tried? Man-up and assume the sale. For chrissssssssakes! She tells you that you're the best kisser she's had?! Right then you respond with "Yeah? There's plenty more where that came from - let's go." *take arm, isolate, make out*

You are the only one stopping the sexing from happening. She HAS to find someone else because you are to shy to pull the trigger and she can't wait forever.

 

[RedPill]

If you want to fukk her, you need to go from the friend zone to the fukk zone. It sounds like she finds you moderately attractive, but has determined that you WANT to be friends with her instead of fukking her. With your consistenly non-aggressive behavior, never attempting to make a move, you're only reinforcing this perception that you aren't interested in her as more than friends. The more you hang out with her without attempting to escalate, the more you are cementing yourself as her girlfriend. The sexual tension is lessened and she subsequently has lower and lower sexual interest in you each time you hang out.

Your best course of ACTION, as it's been mentioned here, is to immediately stop hanging out with this chick and go get some other women. The only way you should have any contact with this one that you've made friends with, who you're interested in fukking, is if it's from a dominant sexual frame. In other words... talks, walks, and friendly banter are out the window. Don't listen to a word she says. She asks you to hang out? "That's nice but I've got better things to do." She asks what you've been up to lately? "You'd like to know that wouldn't you." Crank up the nut factor. Everything she says spin it sexual. Go tell her where you're taking her on the weekend, and make it some physical activity that is so obviously a fun pre-cursor to fukking that it's unmistakable.

The bottom line - go find other women, treat her like a sex object, and don't hang out/speak to her otherwise.

 

[wayword]

Your best course of ACTION, as it's been mentioned here, is to immediately stop hanging out with this chick and go get some other women.

Agreed, she sounds on the rebound and playing a lot of guys for sexual attention. Remember, girls often don't need the sex itself - just to know guys want to have sex with them. She knows you badly want to bone her, and that's all she needs to keep her self-esteem up. Doesn't actually have to go thru with it..

Action talks, BS walks. Her actions tell you one thing...and that's all you need to know. Keep on movin' on.

 

[realsmoothie]

Wow, nice job, boys. A nice range of answers, all of which are right to some degree.

Desdinova - good standard response I'd expect from a veteran (not a dis!). I don't agree that all girls who want sex are as agressive as you think, or maybe you're just overstating your point for emphasis. Anyway, see other replies below.

Amoka - yep, no kidding, she's not looking for a relationship. I think I should have mentioned this, but just yesterday we also talked about how she does not want to settle down right now. Good call. Our first fooling around session was in what she calls her "slut period" right after her breakup.

LJC - nice job extending Amoka's reply. She might see me as relationship material MORE than FB material, and this slows down her approaches with me.

Vulpine - (WTF does that stand for?) - I'm 31, though I come accross as mid-20's. Yes, there is an experience factor here for sure. What's stopping me from just grabbing her? For one, we haven't actually "hung out" together, she just visits the store (and works next door), the closest I've come to isolation is lunch break where we've walked the street. She was in the store really drunk one time and went off on a "you're the best kisser" bit to which I replied something like "there's more where that came from" and she just sort of stared... but she was REALLY wasted and heading off to party. Either way, you're right... I am shy.

RedPill - Yes, she is definitely a little confused as to my intentions.

wayword - like the bit about girls not needing to have sex, just needing to know the guys want to.



The conclusion? Well, I'm not exactly spending any actual time with her, so I'm not worried about hitting that friend zone. I don't think I'm interested in a LTR with her anyhow, she's bonkers and not exactly at the same intellectual level as me (not being snobby, we just wouldn't have much to talk about). An FB would be great, especially since she knows everyone in town and TELLS everyone about her adventures (she told a couple of girls I work with about how "good of a kisser" I was, and now both of them are all over me).

So any suggestions as to an actual maneuver I can use to push this into the immediately sexual? I'm thinking of calling her on her sarcastic flirty b.s., because I am honestly a little peeved with it. Something a little more specific than "grab her and throw her on the ground", thanks... I'm not exactly Don Juan DeMarco here.

But thanks for the help so far, I was expecting a flameout.

 

[Vulpine]

Vulpine - (WTF does that stand for?) - I'm 31, though I come accross as mid-20's. Yes, there is an experience factor here for sure. What's stopping me from just grabbing her? For one, we haven't actually "hung out" together, she just visits the store (and works next door), the closest I've come to isolation is lunch break where we've walked the street. She was in the store really drunk one time and went off on a "you're the best kisser" bit to which I replied something like "there's more where that came from" and she just sort of stared... but she was REALLY wasted and heading off to party. Either way, you're right... I am shy.

vulpine: (adj.) of, or like a fox; especially in cunning

Noticing and acting on the opportunity to kiss is something that I have, and still struggle with. I have always sucked at the first kiss. It's a big boogey-man in my head that I am working on. In the past, I always manipulated the women into being the one to kiss me. Silly, AFC, and less-than-masculine, I know. I don't know how I've been programmed to fight it, but I'm in the process of de-programming. I just read in another thread that women don't see it as a big thing to just randomly make out with a guy. That, to me, is huge. I have excellent oral hygeine, am a good kisser myself (I can tie cherry stems into not just one, but two knots), and know it is a huge escalator in the process. With those things in mind, I'm going to be a kissing machine. This is why I replied with what I did: it's it is looming large in my women struggles, and, I suspect it's a big obsticle for a lot of other guys as well.

Don't wait for complete isolation: women love PDA's. (Public Displays of Affection) That walk across the street would have been a fine opportunity.

 

[Desdinova]

I don't agree that all girls who want sex are as agressive as you think,

Depends on the situation. If it's obvious that the two of you will end up having sex sooner or later, she'll make her dripping pvssy known. Dating, and make-out sessions are what women need to know what YOU want. If she is attracted and neither of these are happening, she won't do anything.

You need to find out if she is attracted or not. If you're not giving her a green light, she isn't going to make a move. A date is a good way to give her that green light. If she's attracted, she'll make it known by accepting the date, holding hands, or kissing. If she's not attracted, she'll make sure you understand that you're just friends.

Another thing you must be willing to do is risk losing the woman alltogether when you try giving her the green light. If you get even a slightly negative reaction, that's your clue that she isn't attracted and you'd best move on.

After you've attracted many women, you'll automatically know when she's attracted. When I've figured that out, I don't give a 5hit what she thinks and tell her "Gimme your goddam hand already!"

 

[realsmoothie]

Vulpy - I did kino her a bit on that street walk... grabbed her hand and commented about a ring she was wearing (which was on her marriage ring finger... she said SHE put it there as a symbol saying that she was committed only to herself). But I haven't done anything to physically indicate interest... I think I am going to touch her neck somehow next time, to get her to remember our one (semi-glorious) night.

I find my good kissing skills are simply a result of two things: One, I love to do it, and two, I take things REALLY slow. Part of this is AFC wussiness, and part of it is a realization that it takes a long time to warm a girl up.


Des - you're right, I obviously need to show some kind of sign through a date or something. I may be over-analyzing this whole thing, pushing it into oneitis territory.

A quick question: at this stage, should I just ask her out? She's told me just to pop over to her house sometime, but I'm disinclined to do so because there's just too many random factors. Do I invite her along to something I'm doing with others, or just try and get her out for drinks?

 

[RedPill]

It's good to see that you're in touch with what the problem is - AFC wussiness. You know then what you need to do differently.

A quick question: at this stage, should I just ask her out? She's told me just to pop over to her house sometime, but I'm disinclined to do so because there's just too many random factors. Do I invite her along to something I'm doing with others, or just try and get her out for drinks?

Ask yourself this question - Is what I'm doing going to get her wet, or is it going to make her happy she's got a great friend like me? The two options you suggested here both go in the friend category. Taking her out with other people fails that litmus test immediately. Drinks are alright, perhaps even helpful to your cause, but what exactly are you doing drunk together that's going to get her hot and bothered? Chatting about the stars and the moon and how you enjoyed giving her a kiss ten years ago?

Dude, you need to LEAD this broad, in no uncertain terms, to the promised land. Go skinny dipping. Take her dancing for a little bit and stare right in her eyes with a smirk as you grind her silly. Put her on your motorcycle and cruise. Rent a waverunner. Give this little girl some thrills, then buy some whipped cream and get fukken wild with her.

MAN UP!

 

[Metro3pilot]

She tells me to pop over to her place any time

My only question is why have you not taken her up on that INVITE ?

are you waiting for the moons and planets to be in the right position before you make a move.

you want to be her girlfriend or you want to bang her, have you made up your mind what you

want yet ?

 

[realsmoothie]

sad update, but funny.

So she calls twice today, once this afternoon while I'm at work. I don't normally pick up the phone to answer because she's always in "chat" mode, this time I do. We chat for like a minute, and I start thinking that I should start to cut this off so I'm not available for her all the time, all DJ-like. Then she starts talking about this MP3 player she got and doesn't know how to use... "can you come over some night after work and help me with it?"... absent mindedly I'm like "uh, sure" and then the "playing it cool" gene steps in... "oh crap, I have to go" and she says bye and I hang up.

LOL the one time she pretty much invites me over to her place, and I go all "I'm badass, screw you" on her.

Anyhow... OK OK so I'll think of something we can do that's more condusive to getting it on. She does like to dance, and we've done that before (massive boner time, I tell ya... she's a grinder). I'll have to set up a weekend outing (at this point I should mention that our schedules are ridiculously incompatible... only free times are Friday and Saturday nights).

Sorry if I'm boring ya... I promise that something will happen SOON. You guys are definitely feeding the confidence.

 

[LJC]

LOL the one time she pretty much invites me over to her place, and I go all "I'm badass, screw you" on her.

I told you, man. Don't change your game mid-course!

 

[realsmoothie]

UPDATE: HORROR STORY

Oh boy, this got ugly real fast. I am a stupid, stupid man.

So for a few days I bided my time and sucked up some courage to ask her out. Finally called her and tried to make some plans, but it just wasn't going to happen... our schedules were just not working out.

But then I find out we were going to see the same band play at a local bar. I realized that this isn't exactly an ideal situation, but it's going to be a good night out anyhow (lots of girls, surely).

Get there, she walks right up and gets me and my friend (female) to sit down. For the next hour or so we play a bit of cat and mouse... she sits close, there's mutual kino, some minor flirting. I notice she's not nearly open as she has been at times before, but am prepared to go the distance anyhow.

We dance a little, but of course she's a tease so she dances with my friend even more (lucky girls). Eventually she tells me she's just dropped E... not sure if that's good or bad at this point.

By closing time I'm kind of frustrated that she's not making things as easy as they could be... the feeling that she knows she's got me and doesn't have to work for it. So I pull away a bit, and actually spark up a convo with a fairly blah-looking girl sitting beside us.

It works... target-girl notices, and comes asks what me and another guy (my best friend, just showed up) are doing after the show. Says she wants to hang out and get some weed.

So the three of us leave, I'm suddenly pumped because she's pulled this kind of thing before to get some isolation. We're going up the street when she's like "oh, we're close to the bar i used to work, let's try there". Warning bells should have gone off... this bar is owned by her frequent FB.

We get in, she talks to a guy... then... GET THIS... turns to me and says "oh, sorry... I'm ditching". I get this quizzical look on my face, she leans a little closer and says "he's my booty call guy".

WTF. I just about pop. I grab her, pull her away. My freind senses something brewing and books it for the door. I'm not really sure what I said here, but it was something to the effect of "I'm tired of your games, you know I'm attracted to you and yet you straight up inform me you're going to go **** this other guy?" She's speechless. I calm for a second, slide my hand behind her ear and caress her neck... "you have no idea what you're missing".

I turn and leave. I delete her name from my cellphone ten steps down the road. Strangely, I feel GOOD. GOOD for having said my piece, GOOD for knowing it was over. Maybe I was more hung up on this chick than I thought.

I wake up this morning and go to work happy. I flirt like crazy, got this one girl to come to the bar with me mid-week (major deal for me). Left my phone off all day... and when I turn it on I find out she's called at least twice.

Here's where I need some more help. She left a message "Hi, it's Blah Blah... call me when you get a chance". it's not leaden but it's definitely not her chipper self, so she must have remembered something in all that drug-laden haze.

Question: do I call her back? Am I justified in being angry? At this point, unless she's got a REAL good excuse, I don't even want anything to happen. I feel used. But on the other hand we have many common friends and work right beside each other. I don't want to piss her off.

 

[realsmoothie]

Did you read that reply? Yep, it was "dead on", but the thing is I already KNOW all that from reading the Bible and having been on this board for a while. He didn't have any actual ADVICE other than "sarge a bunch of other chicks".

I should clarify - I am no DJ expert. As if you couldn't tell. In fact, before I started working on this kind of thing last summer, I hadn't kissed a girl in three years.

Also, this girl isn't the only one I've been after in the last couple of weeks. I only present it on this board because a) she's stupidly hot, much better than the ones I've been after lately and b) her behaviour was confusing and I wanted to know if anyone here understood it better than me.

 

[wayword]

"I'm tired of your games, you know I'm attracted to you and yet you straight up inform me you're going to go **** this other guy?" She's speechless. I calm for a second, slide my hand behind her ear and caress her neck... "you have no idea what you're missing".

Losing control, losing the game and telling her you're attracted to her? = A F'n C !

Kino and C at the end = DJ.

More of the latter, less of the former...

 

[Pimp-sicle]

Dood you've been in the friend zone ever since you didn't close the one night you guys hooked up. This girl's a flirt, she gets tons of attention and she loves the validation. That's who you are to her, validation that she's female, that she's attractive and that she has many suitors just like yourself throwing themselves at her, but getting no play.

She's not stupid, she knows you want her, she loves that you want her but yet wants nothing to do with you sexually. You have no one to blame but yourself for putting up with being her b-itch friend. Do you think she calls her FB friend to chat about mundane topics like an MP3 player? No she calls him for one thing and gets off the phone right after that. You don't apply for a FB relationship like a job. You acquire FB but building your resume (social proof stable of girls) and gaining higher value with your target.

If that wasn't enough you tattooed your fate in Friend-ville with your insecure little man rant at the bar. The only GOOD thing you did was walking out of that bar and deleting her phone #. But I regress, because your at it again asking us if you should call her back. Of course you shouldn't!! Unless in some sick, wussy way you enjoy being played for a fool, then by all means proceed with your master plan.

Until you understand that the only reason this girl calls you is to get attention and your admiration, you'll never be able to successfully break your addiction for her.



PIMP

 

[realsmoothie]

Hrm, well... update.

Apparently she's actually sort of "seeing" this guy, according to a mutual friend. He's more than an FB.

I never called her back. But... and get this, I go out to the bar last night and hook up with one of my female friend's friends. Not a common experience, I'll tell ya that... I think things are turning around.

So we go back to this chick's place around 3:00 and start the action. I'm REALLY taking my time because I'm nervous... but by 6:30 the pants are off. Then, get this, at 7:12 this girl is near-orgasm when my cell goes off.

Guess who?

She sometimes calls in the morning when she's going to work (to annoy me, no doubt). Anyhow, I manage to salvage the orgasm with the girl and eventually fill her into the story. She cracks up, smirking... "yeah, she really DOESN'T know what she's missing" as she squeezes my sore wang.

:woo:

I'm debating calling back the first girl and letting her know exactly what I was doing when she called. Since she's clearly not into me, she won't care, right?

Guess this thread is done, hey?