Getting flakes from singles, and not from ones in relationships

user252009

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I've been meeting both single women as well as some in relationships/married, and what I'm noticing that the singles are 75% flaky while the ones in relationship always come through and are happy to see me. What gives?
 

SW15

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You aren't offering enough to warrant the time of single women for romantic purposes. Improve your offering. You are falling short on your attractiveness as a sexual/romantic partner.

Also, are you meeting single women through swipe apps and social media DMs primarily? If so, you have weak connections and these weak connections are more prone to flaky behaviors.

People only using swipe apps when they can't manage to meet people in real life. It's a weaker pool of singles in general. That's part of why most men interact with women who exhibit frustrating behaviors.

The best way to meet single women are through people you already know. It's the best way to get regular sex without dealing with frustrating behavior from women. You will get fewer notches through this method as compared to being a skilled seducer (but maybe more than being an unskilled seducer). However, you might get a better girlfriend for an extended relationship more efficiently by doing this.

Married women and women in committed non-marital relationships are not judging you on your sexual worthiness. They are judging you on being a 'nice and pleasant person'. That's not the same as being judged as being a potential sexual partner.
 

user252009

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You aren't offering enough to warrant the time of single women for romantic purposes. Improve your offering. You are falling short on your attractiveness as a sexual/romantic partner.
What offering? I'm decent looking in a decent shape (yeah not 5% but I have other points to balance that out), with a great job and a cool side career, traveling quite a lot and I'm an interesting person. No I'm not 6" and I shave my head but there's nothing I can do about my height or my hair loss. I also offer interesting dates, and not just a drink or coffee.
 

SW15

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I'm decent looking in a decent shape (yeah not 5% but I have other points to balance that out), with a great job and a cool side career, traveling quite a lot and I'm an interesting person. No I'm not 6" and I shave my head but there's nothing I can do about my height or my hair loss.
This tells me that you're not in the 85th-90th percentile + of men. Mating has gotten more competitive.

You're probably a slightly above average guy in general, possibly near the top end of the middle of the bell curve.

It's good that you are an interesting person. You likely have average or better social skills. Many men lack that and you should be proud of what you have there. However, personality matters less than looks and money in the earliest stages of an interaction. Women might be flaking before they get to know your personality. Looks, money, status, and personality are all important in both initial attraction and in retaining relationships. I tend to think that looks and money matter the most at all phases of the interaction. When women flake on you, the flaking is happening more because your looks and money aren't perceived as good enough for her.

It's good that you are in decent shape. It's good that your BMI likely doesn't put you in the overweight range. Do you go to a gym? Is your physique better than 85-90% of the other men in your gym? In interactions with strangers, women tend to seek out that top 10-15% of men.

A solid net income alone isn't enough to impress a lot of bougie White Millennial women. In 2023-2024, we had thread about men making above average provider incomes having difficulties with attraction/seduction (see below). The salary range discussed here in that thread was $75,000 - $125,000, but I think it could be extended up to $149,999.


There are plenty of provider type single guys in their 30s/early 40s making $90,000 - $149,999 in larger USA cities that are struggling to date conventionally.

In the USA market, let's think about who is typically a 30s-40s guy making $90,000 - $149,999. It's typically a White male with a bachelor's degree + who is most interested in dating White females with a bachelor's degree +.

These White females in his age range with bachelor's degrees + and who are childless hare often making good enough salaries to support themselves and the guy with the $110,000 annual salary isn't anything special. Because an above average but not exceptional male salary isn't that important to the bougie, childless White woman, she can focus on chasing the 85th-90th percentile guy in looks who also gives her "all the feels". White women under 30 also aren't going to be impressed with the $90,000 - $149,999 earning guy to go chase a bigger age difference (7-15 years).

Your best bet going forward will likely be meeting people through your existing connections. You are 39 and I hope you've been in the same city for a while and know a good number of people in that city. A social circle can help you get access to women that wouldn't have given you a chance as a random stranger approaching, swiping, or DMing them. What you offer is likely good enough based on the recommendations of common acquaintances/friends.

Social circle interactions are better options in the shorter to medium to for finding a girlfriend. If you're looking for an extended relationship (1-5 years or more), your best bet for getting that with the least amount of grief and frustration is through a social circle. You won't have to do as many approaches in either non-bar venues or nightlife venues or take as many rejections. You won't have a miserable time on swipe apps.
 

user252009

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Thanks for that detailed reply, appreciate the effort! That’s absolutely true that the dating apps are the ones where flakiness comes from, real life is much lower in that aspect. I’ve come to give the dating apps a much lower priority now, in the sense if it happens great, if it doesn’t also fine
 

SW15

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That’s absolutely true that the dating apps are the ones where flakiness comes from, real life is much lower in that aspect. I’ve come to give the dating apps a much lower priority now, in the sense if it happens great, if it doesn’t also fine
The dating apps are where most men are going to have the worst experiences.

There was the famous circa 2010 study done by OkCupid that women rated 80% of men as below average looking. That's not possible. 80% of men are not below average. Women on dating apps have a perception of a skewed sample of men existing. Keep in mind that data is nearly 15 years old, so women in 2024 might rate 85% of men as below average.


Doing things in the real world will help your mindset and your outcomes a lot. Starting interactions with strangers in real life is not easy either. There will be a lot of rejection. Because you're decent looking, you'll get a lot of 'soft rejections'. These soft rejections will be conversations that fizzle out quickly without you offering a date. Some of your soft rejections will be from women in relationships (they won't disclose the relationships to you) and some will be from unattached women. In real life, it's much more difficult to tell who is unattached and seeking new penis. This is more difficult in non-bar venues than at bars.

You might be able to find a female friendly hobby where women are approachable. You might also be able to get a friend/acquaintance to set you up with a vetted single female.
 

user252009

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The dating apps have been overrun by the asian or african women changing their locations - as soon as an asian girls (I've developed a taste for them over the last 6 months) reply, I know that they don't live in my country, because rarely a girl from my country replies
 

Drmuscular

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I would say that dating apps suck in general unless you have god tier text game, or look very good or have a good body or smv, if not but you still have to meet women online i recommend being more immersed in forums or online groups (like facebook pages) for a thing that interests you, its more organic and it might align more with your demographic, a common thing that i see nowadays is that people use running and group exercise apps to date rather than dating apps. In general at least for me it is better to be involved in irl activities and meet people from there. Being "decent" is nowhere near enough to get consistent results, and even the **** people teach here is already widespread I see people talking about it all the time even without knowing this site because influencers outside of the manosphere already spread all of this so competition or the "meta" of the game is tough because a lot more people have game than before.

Don't get discouraged nor delete the apps, you might get some there anyway just know that its the way the game works right now so literally have 0 expectations and don't think about it much, do learn a little about looking for interest level since it will prevent you from getting flaked last minute which sucks a lot and it will help you not waste your TIME.

In my experience, dating apps or instagram are akin to cold approaching but virtually, so at most even if you look like VERY good you might get like a 30-40 % success in getting IN and even then you really don't know what happens next, it is generally a very blackpilled environment since it really just depends on your appearance and how good of a photo you can get, no idea about wealth since I don't have it yet but my guess is that you just would be used for a free meal.

Now on the actual thing about singles and women in relationships, if they are entertaining you then it simply means they want to monkey branch or are unhappy in the relationship so they are seeing their options and if they can get someone better, I see many women getting rid of orbiters or even close friends if they really like their boyfriend at the beginning, and orbiters themselves go away since they realize they have 0 chance, so in reality women in relationships have less "options" than single women and thus as long as the dude is not doing things right **** is easy, it involves luck though since the boyfriend can solve the problem or make her happy again and there is very little you can do about it, but a lot of times women want to have their grip on the next one since they are all TERRIFIED of being alone, or maybe she is just bored/angry and wants a fling, **** happens I guess.
 

user252009

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I would say that dating apps suck in general unless you have god tier text game, or look very good or have a good body or smv, if not but you still have to meet women online i recommend being more immersed in forums or online groups (like facebook pages) for a thing that interests you, its more organic and it might align more with your demographic, a common thing that i see nowadays is that people use running and group exercise apps to date rather than dating apps. In general at least for me it is better to be involved in irl activities and meet people from there. Being "decent" is nowhere near enough to get consistent results, and even the **** people teach here is already widespread I see people talking about it all the time even without knowing this site because influencers outside of the manosphere already spread all of this so competition or the "meta" of the game is tough because a lot more people have game than before.

Don't get discouraged nor delete the apps, you might get some there anyway just know that its the way the game works right now so literally have 0 expectations and don't think about it much, do learn a little about looking for interest level since it will prevent you from getting flaked last minute which sucks a lot and it will help you not waste your TIME.
Exactly on point yeah, I am connecting more to women with similar interests in online groups rather than dating apps, especially at my age that works better as I have a lot of proven value there. Problem is my interests are so focused that potential candidates are in other countries...oh well
 
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