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Gas

Skel

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So gas is ****ing expensive and getting worse. We all know that.

I have a car that the manual says it needs supreme. Honestly does it really?
If Im correct, the only difference in the gas besides the obsurd price is that anti knock or what some people call octane rating. A few people have told me try, regular gas. If you engine doesent knock, its all good. Will this **** up my engine?
 

backbreaker

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what kinda car is it?

I can probalby tell you, as I sold cars for a while and know which cars actually NEED it and which just run better.

I have a Lexus SC400 and If I put anything but Premium gas in there, it will stall out until I put some premium gas in it.

On the other hand, i sold Mazda's for a year or so back in the day and out of all there cars that need "premium gas", the RX-8 is the only one that actually needs it. your a fool for not putting premium gas in an RX-8
 

Vulpine

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Here's the thing, and I'll summarize:

Timing. (That, or boost/compression, but we won't get into that.)
Most often, the reason the factory recommends premium gas is because the timing is set "aggressively" to make more power. (Again, that or the car has a turbo/supercharger.)
You're timing is controlled by the ECU (computer).
If knock-sensors read a knock, the ECU retards the timing.
Retarded timing yields less power.
Less power means you have to push the pedal down further to compensate.
The result is more burned gas.
The result of more burned gas is the same amount of money is spent, if not more.

Bottom line: you'll fuxup your car and spend as much, if not more money, by putting in the cheap sh!t, so don't.


Oh, by the way, I've heard countless mechanics and "factory trained technicians" tell fools "yeah, run the cheap stuff, it doesn't matter". Right. That's good business. Recommend that a person fux up their car so they have to bring it in to you to get it fixed. :rolleyes:

The factory would love nothing more than to have a consumer purchase a car every 3-5 years, so they train their technicians accordingly.

I can rant and rave about the benefits of premium gas over the cheap sh!t for hours, but it will be useless. Just as males are hustled and fooled into turning their backs on their masculinity, the American auto consumer is brainwashed as well. People will argue up and down that the grade of gas doesn't matter.

No?

Then why are there 3 options to begin with? Why not just one? What's the difference between the 113 octane you get at the track or jet fuel and 87? Nothing?

Nevermind, then.
 

backbreaker

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yeah even with that said, my dad doesn't give me alot of advice.

over the last 10 years here is what he has told me:

1) don't chase em, replace em

2) Shoot with your legs, not your arms (basketball)

3) wrap up and flush it yourself when done

4) even if it costs more and even if the car doesn't need it, use premium gas
 

Vulpine

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Skel said:
2004 Acura Rsx-s
Yep, timing. (that and high compression)

Ok, the thing about the cheap gas is that it isn't as "stable" as premium. Under boost, or under high compression, the lower octane fuel is subject to pre/post-detonation from hotspots. Essentially, low octane fuel can detonate like diesel: by compression and heat - not just by a spark. The high compression's effect on fuel is that it makes it "excited", and thus, it burns more readily. Well, the cheap fuel can't handle all the "excitement", so it "freaks out" before it's "go time". The result is a knock or ping that is murderous to the car's valves, rings, etc., etc. Why? The explosion is "off time" and explodes against rising pistons instead of expoloding with the piston already traveling away. Of course, it might not be that extreme, but the "off time" combustion doesn't exactly help make power.

So, to prevent knock/ping, auto makers install knock-sensors to "listen" and adjust the timing in an attempt to "match up" the pre-detonation with the actual spark. Like I said: retarded timing = less power = more gas burned = same/more money spent.

(I'm keeping it vague intentionally, there is more too it.)
 

Skel

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Well, Im glad I asked the question then. Ill stick to Premium from now on. Thanks for all the responses.
 

Vulpine

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backbreaker said:
4) even if it costs more and even if the car doesn't need it, use premium gas

Excellent advice.

There are many, many benefits.

One being alcohol. Often, the cheap gas has a certain percentage whereas premium may not. Alcohol, being hydrophillic, attracts water. Water doesn't burn, and in the winter freezes. Ice in the fuel lines sucks.

Plus, when the alcohol burns, it produces more water as a byproduct than does gas. Where's that water go? Down your exhaust. Water + Steel = Rust = have to buy a new exhaust. Little do people realize... you don't go through exhuast/mufflers nearly as frequently if you burn premium gas.

And peace of mind? I have never had a problem starting any of my cars in the winter. When I say "winter", I mean, -30F to -40F "winter".

Oh, and a funny hustle... that gas additive called "heet". Since people use gas with alcohol in it, water gets into the fuel system and causes problems in the winter. So, some smart guy decided to charge people to put even more alcohol into the system to "get rid of" the water... it actually actracts even more. So, of course, you have to buy more, etc, etc. What a hustle!

Another benefit is that fact that alcohol burns at a higher temperature than gasoline. So? Well, think about the effects of heat and metal and welding. The higher temps make for more wear on the metal. Valves, piston rings, spark plugs, as well as the pistons and cylinders themselves are all worn at a faster rate with cheap gas than with premium. Worn valves? Less compression. Less compression = less power = more gas burned. Worn piston rings? Less compression. Less compression = less power = more gas burned. PLUS Worn piston rings = "blowby" from compression/combustion = dirtier oil = MORE WEAR ON EVERYTHING!

People just keep on pumping the crap because it's cheaper with no thought as to what's going on. Pumping cheap gas is exponentially more expensive in the long run.
 

Vulpine

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One tip for anyone who cares to switch to premium:

Advance the timing.

Burning premium alone doesn't have much effect on your mileage because it's set to a "safe" and "tame" setting. The factory recommendation is determined such that it's ok to burn crap gas (i.e. the timing is relatively retarded just to be safe in case you were dumb and cheap).

If you advance the timing and ONLY put in premium, you will realize about 3-5 (or more depending on the car) miles per gallon.

The problem I see when people are thinking of switching is when they run only one tank of premium and not notice any difference. Well, the car's computer doesn't just switch overnight - modern cars have "learning" computers that read sensors and make adjustments over a length of time, so change can be gradual.

Run three tanks of normal crap and note your mileage. Then, run three tankfuls of premium and note the mileage. Then, see if there is a difference in the averages.

Then, advance your timing a few degrees and again note the change in average.

Premium, if used in conjunction with advancing the timing, almost makes up for the cost difference in mileage increase alone. Factor in all the other things, and it more than pays for itself.

Experience: I've done it. Many cars, with many people. Proven results. No amount of "he said this" and "the mechanic told me that" will trump experience. I urge everyone to have their own experience and prove it to themselves.
 

RedPill

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People can be insane when it comes to gas prices. If you offered someone $2.00 gas as a promotion, cars would line up for miles and wait for hours to save what? $15?

The more expensive gas gets, the less it costs to get premium relative to regular or mid-grade. Regardless of the overall price, the 3-4 options at the pump are typically priced 10 cents apart.

Math:

With a 16 gallon tank that is filled with 15 gallons on a typical fuel stop -

$3.00 regular = $45.00
$3.10 mid-grade = $46.50
$3.20 premium = $48.00 <--- Wow a whopping $3 difference!

Even if the fringe benefits of premium were only limited to the fuel efficiency increase, is $3 really that big a deal? Factoring in the increased fuel efficiency AND added life to your vehicle - not only is that extra $3 not a big deal, but you are paying significantly less over time.
 

backbreaker

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my grandmother will drive 30 mintues, to save 20 cents a gallon gas.. you can't reason with some people
 

blackbelt2k

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on a side note....always, ALWAYS, put premium in your motorcycle...i found out the hard with my first bike what happens when you put regular :(
 
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