DonGorgon
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2007
- Messages
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equality
We live in an era of liberation in which the differences between men and women are disappearing. Chivalry and other practices which once oppressed women are being relegated to the ash heap of history, along with corsets and other forms of female oppression. And women are boldly stepping forward to take up roles once denied to them. Right?
Initiative. Generally, most women expect men to take the initiative when it comes to dating, courtship and sex, at least initially. That means you, my man, will have to approach a woman, start a conversation, ask her for her phone number, call her up, and make the first date. Some women might strike up a conversation with a man to "give him the idea" she is interested, but then the ball is in your court.
Paying. Many women expect you to pick up the tab. Some women are quite open about it, "I don't think women should have to pay for anything!" is their battle cry. Others are more subtle. They may offer to pay, but really expect the man to refuse to let them. Or they may tell you that since women are paid 60% of what men are, then you owe it to them. Reparations, no doubt.
Chivalry. Open her door. Hold her chair. Light her cigarette. Wait, isn't this sexism (horrors!)? Yeah, but get used to it.
Sex (who does what to whom). According to the rules set down by Antioch College, partners should ask permission at every step of the way. That means from holding her hand to (presumably) having an orgasm. Uh huh. When was the last time a woman took the initiative, explained that she wanted sex with you, showed you proof she was using birth control, then asked for permission at each and every stage (which I am sure you can imagine in pornographic detail)? What, never? OK, so let's deal with the real world. It'll be generally up to you to take the initiative when it comes to sex. There are some complications, as can be seen in other parts of this site (see, especially, No means No means Yes means Maybe means No means.... You might observe that women seem to be under no obligation to ask you for your permission when it comes to them demanding that you pay for dinner, or handing over that 18 years of child support because she chose (chose!) not to get an abortion.
Sex (the deal). "No sex until marriage. No sex until we date for six months. No sex until you move my furniture. No sex." Incredible as it may seem in this age of liberation, many women still believe that sex is a commodity they posses which they can use to gain something in return from men. More on how to deal with this, elsewhere on this site.
Demands. Women will make many demands, many of them silly and ridiculous, which they themselves would never even think of doing for the men in their lives. For example, they may demand that a man romance them with all sorts of gifts and flowers while they themselves would not even send a birthday card in return. Or take those Antioch Rules again: how many feminists do you think ask permission from men for whatever sex they may choose to engage in? By their own rules these women are "date rapists" (horrors!). Think they are turning themselves in to the local constabulary? Frequently, the same women who will make grandiose pronouncements about "long-term relationships" are too dysfunctional to take the initiative, pick up the phone, and ask out a man for a coffee date. Since women have little conception about the difficulties inherent in any sort of dating situation, they naturally assume they are experts. Related to this phenomenon is the woman who talks a good fight about "commitment" and "building relationships" but cancels out of dates at the last moment (or just stands men up).
What you can do..
Insist on treating her as an equal: no opening doors, she pays 50% of all expenses, demand that she ask permission when it comes to sex. Be prepared to spend the rest of your life masturbating. Or you can learn.
"No Means No Means Yes Means Maybe Means Yes Means No Means Yes" aka commitment
Women believe in commitment, right? Men are "commitmentphobes", right? We're told that "no means no" and "yes means yes", right? Well, let's see how it works on this planet.
"Love to but busy". You meet a woman, you have a nice conversation, you ask her if she wants to go to a movie this weekend. She replies, "Gee, I'd love to, but gosh I am busy, maybe next week." Since by the very rules women set, "no" means "no," then "yes" must mean "yes", right? So if you call her up next week she will go out with you, right? Well, wrong, Often, the woman just does not want to go out with you but lacks the integrity to tell the truth, so she date lies and says "maybe" when she means "no." The usual claim is that she "does not want to hurt your feelings." Nonsense. She is concerned about her own feelings, since having to tell the truth might cause her some discomfort. But the dilemma is sometimes she would love to go out with you but she is busy. If you do not try again, then she will complain about men not calling back. Now, if you were dealing with a guy, you'd put the ball in his court and he would call you back. But many women will not call up a guy to ask him out, at least not the first few times they are dating a man. So you are in an impossible situation: if you take her "maybe" to mean "yes" and ask her out again, then you may face a charge of "sexual harassment." If you take her "maybe" to mean "no" and not call her back, she may claim you are another of those insensitive men who never call back.
What to do. You might insist and demand to know if she is really interested in going out with you, i.e., get some sort of definitive "yes" or "no." Or you might give her your phone number and tell her to call back if she is interested. Or you might go to your campus women's center (there are very few men's centers) and point out this is another example of women saying "yes" when they really mean "no." Or you might drop her all together.
Phone phollies. Related to above...she says she'd love to hear from you. You call her, she's not in, you leave a message on her phone machine, she does not call you back. You go through this cycle several times. Usual advice: leave a message once. If she does not call back, forget it. Better not to leave a message at all and get her when she is in. Related to this: do not try to get in contact with her via e-mail. Too easy to get deleted.
Canceling. Just because she said "yes" does not mean she will actually come through and show up for the date. You may receive a panic-stricken phone call at the last moment in which she gives you some lame excuse and cancels. Why does this happen? At first she may be complimented that someone has asked her out, so she agrees. Then she starts to panic--"who is this guy?" "what does he want?" "what if he wants sex!?" "I can't do this!" So she cancels out. Quite often, while people will complain that they can not meet members of the opposite sex, when they do get a date, they suddenly get bogged down by a lot of concerns: like, "will I be judged and rejected?" "this is such a pain to date, better to stay home and feel sorry for myself," "I can do better than this person."
Standing you up. Let's assume she does not cancel out. This does not mean she will actually show up. So you may have blown an entire evening, plus dinner reservations, etc. Another example of female commitment.
Standing you up at a distance. Same as above, but this assumes you, say, flew out to another city, state or country to see her.
Changing her mind about sex. Just because she said "yes" to sex doesn't mean she has to go through with it. She can (and will) change her mind at the last moment. She may change her mind even in bed. Guess what? You can't do a thing about it!
My recommendations:
Give her your phone number and tell her if she is interested she can call you back. And do not call her again until she does.
"One strike and you are out." Don't event bother to call her again. She had her chance. If she can't call you up to apologize, forget about her.
Read her the riot act. Tell her there is something wrong with her for acting this way. She won't go out with you, but it may save the next guy some grief.
For the first date, do not make reservations for dinner, bring flowers, or make dates with women who live more miles than you care to drive. This will save you a lot of time and money. Things like flowers should be a reward for her showing up for more than one date, not a freebie.
Sue her. That's right, if this involves some considerable expense on your part, like airline tickets or hotel reservations, bring a civil suit against her. Who knows, you might get some satisfaction.
When it comes to sex, at the slightest sign of a game on her part, show her the door. You do not want to give her the satisfaction that what she has is worth a jail sentence.
(By the way, "Commitmentphobia" is an interesting term, squashing together English and Greek words to mean "fear of commitment" with the implication that this is some sort of pathology, like arachnophobia. i.e., men who do not want commitment are insane, unlike women who do want commitment are not. The fact that many women can not show up for dates they make does not enter into the picture. Name calling is part of the female repertoire, presumably a form of nurturing which men are not sensitive enough to understand. If we turned the situation around and, say called women who expected men to pick up the check all the time "ho's", or women who refused to have sex "sexophobics," what do you suppose the response would be? By the way, whatever happened to the term "frigid?")
We live in an era of liberation in which the differences between men and women are disappearing. Chivalry and other practices which once oppressed women are being relegated to the ash heap of history, along with corsets and other forms of female oppression. And women are boldly stepping forward to take up roles once denied to them. Right?
Initiative. Generally, most women expect men to take the initiative when it comes to dating, courtship and sex, at least initially. That means you, my man, will have to approach a woman, start a conversation, ask her for her phone number, call her up, and make the first date. Some women might strike up a conversation with a man to "give him the idea" she is interested, but then the ball is in your court.
Paying. Many women expect you to pick up the tab. Some women are quite open about it, "I don't think women should have to pay for anything!" is their battle cry. Others are more subtle. They may offer to pay, but really expect the man to refuse to let them. Or they may tell you that since women are paid 60% of what men are, then you owe it to them. Reparations, no doubt.
Chivalry. Open her door. Hold her chair. Light her cigarette. Wait, isn't this sexism (horrors!)? Yeah, but get used to it.
Sex (who does what to whom). According to the rules set down by Antioch College, partners should ask permission at every step of the way. That means from holding her hand to (presumably) having an orgasm. Uh huh. When was the last time a woman took the initiative, explained that she wanted sex with you, showed you proof she was using birth control, then asked for permission at each and every stage (which I am sure you can imagine in pornographic detail)? What, never? OK, so let's deal with the real world. It'll be generally up to you to take the initiative when it comes to sex. There are some complications, as can be seen in other parts of this site (see, especially, No means No means Yes means Maybe means No means.... You might observe that women seem to be under no obligation to ask you for your permission when it comes to them demanding that you pay for dinner, or handing over that 18 years of child support because she chose (chose!) not to get an abortion.
Sex (the deal). "No sex until marriage. No sex until we date for six months. No sex until you move my furniture. No sex." Incredible as it may seem in this age of liberation, many women still believe that sex is a commodity they posses which they can use to gain something in return from men. More on how to deal with this, elsewhere on this site.
Demands. Women will make many demands, many of them silly and ridiculous, which they themselves would never even think of doing for the men in their lives. For example, they may demand that a man romance them with all sorts of gifts and flowers while they themselves would not even send a birthday card in return. Or take those Antioch Rules again: how many feminists do you think ask permission from men for whatever sex they may choose to engage in? By their own rules these women are "date rapists" (horrors!). Think they are turning themselves in to the local constabulary? Frequently, the same women who will make grandiose pronouncements about "long-term relationships" are too dysfunctional to take the initiative, pick up the phone, and ask out a man for a coffee date. Since women have little conception about the difficulties inherent in any sort of dating situation, they naturally assume they are experts. Related to this phenomenon is the woman who talks a good fight about "commitment" and "building relationships" but cancels out of dates at the last moment (or just stands men up).
What you can do..
Insist on treating her as an equal: no opening doors, she pays 50% of all expenses, demand that she ask permission when it comes to sex. Be prepared to spend the rest of your life masturbating. Or you can learn.
"No Means No Means Yes Means Maybe Means Yes Means No Means Yes" aka commitment
Women believe in commitment, right? Men are "commitmentphobes", right? We're told that "no means no" and "yes means yes", right? Well, let's see how it works on this planet.
"Love to but busy". You meet a woman, you have a nice conversation, you ask her if she wants to go to a movie this weekend. She replies, "Gee, I'd love to, but gosh I am busy, maybe next week." Since by the very rules women set, "no" means "no," then "yes" must mean "yes", right? So if you call her up next week she will go out with you, right? Well, wrong, Often, the woman just does not want to go out with you but lacks the integrity to tell the truth, so she date lies and says "maybe" when she means "no." The usual claim is that she "does not want to hurt your feelings." Nonsense. She is concerned about her own feelings, since having to tell the truth might cause her some discomfort. But the dilemma is sometimes she would love to go out with you but she is busy. If you do not try again, then she will complain about men not calling back. Now, if you were dealing with a guy, you'd put the ball in his court and he would call you back. But many women will not call up a guy to ask him out, at least not the first few times they are dating a man. So you are in an impossible situation: if you take her "maybe" to mean "yes" and ask her out again, then you may face a charge of "sexual harassment." If you take her "maybe" to mean "no" and not call her back, she may claim you are another of those insensitive men who never call back.
What to do. You might insist and demand to know if she is really interested in going out with you, i.e., get some sort of definitive "yes" or "no." Or you might give her your phone number and tell her to call back if she is interested. Or you might go to your campus women's center (there are very few men's centers) and point out this is another example of women saying "yes" when they really mean "no." Or you might drop her all together.
Phone phollies. Related to above...she says she'd love to hear from you. You call her, she's not in, you leave a message on her phone machine, she does not call you back. You go through this cycle several times. Usual advice: leave a message once. If she does not call back, forget it. Better not to leave a message at all and get her when she is in. Related to this: do not try to get in contact with her via e-mail. Too easy to get deleted.
Canceling. Just because she said "yes" does not mean she will actually come through and show up for the date. You may receive a panic-stricken phone call at the last moment in which she gives you some lame excuse and cancels. Why does this happen? At first she may be complimented that someone has asked her out, so she agrees. Then she starts to panic--"who is this guy?" "what does he want?" "what if he wants sex!?" "I can't do this!" So she cancels out. Quite often, while people will complain that they can not meet members of the opposite sex, when they do get a date, they suddenly get bogged down by a lot of concerns: like, "will I be judged and rejected?" "this is such a pain to date, better to stay home and feel sorry for myself," "I can do better than this person."
Standing you up. Let's assume she does not cancel out. This does not mean she will actually show up. So you may have blown an entire evening, plus dinner reservations, etc. Another example of female commitment.
Standing you up at a distance. Same as above, but this assumes you, say, flew out to another city, state or country to see her.
Changing her mind about sex. Just because she said "yes" to sex doesn't mean she has to go through with it. She can (and will) change her mind at the last moment. She may change her mind even in bed. Guess what? You can't do a thing about it!
My recommendations:
Give her your phone number and tell her if she is interested she can call you back. And do not call her again until she does.
"One strike and you are out." Don't event bother to call her again. She had her chance. If she can't call you up to apologize, forget about her.
Read her the riot act. Tell her there is something wrong with her for acting this way. She won't go out with you, but it may save the next guy some grief.
For the first date, do not make reservations for dinner, bring flowers, or make dates with women who live more miles than you care to drive. This will save you a lot of time and money. Things like flowers should be a reward for her showing up for more than one date, not a freebie.
Sue her. That's right, if this involves some considerable expense on your part, like airline tickets or hotel reservations, bring a civil suit against her. Who knows, you might get some satisfaction.
When it comes to sex, at the slightest sign of a game on her part, show her the door. You do not want to give her the satisfaction that what she has is worth a jail sentence.
(By the way, "Commitmentphobia" is an interesting term, squashing together English and Greek words to mean "fear of commitment" with the implication that this is some sort of pathology, like arachnophobia. i.e., men who do not want commitment are insane, unlike women who do want commitment are not. The fact that many women can not show up for dates they make does not enter into the picture. Name calling is part of the female repertoire, presumably a form of nurturing which men are not sensitive enough to understand. If we turned the situation around and, say called women who expected men to pick up the check all the time "ho's", or women who refused to have sex "sexophobics," what do you suppose the response would be? By the way, whatever happened to the term "frigid?")
