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Game theory - what would you do?

Would you have sex with your friends last girl?

  • Yes, because I believe he would too

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, because I can

    Votes: 2 25.0%
  • No, because its wrong

    Votes: 4 50.0%
  • No, because i hope he says the same thing

    Votes: 2 25.0%

  • Total voters
    8

synergy1

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What I propose here is somewhat of a thought experiment inspired by a non-situation in my life. I say non situation because I 99% sure nothing bad will come of it, but it made me think a little about game theory. Game theory here being in the context of Nash equilibria which was popularized by John Nash who won a Nobel prize for his work on behavioral economics. He basically said that the best payout isn't always by the efforts of the individual. my example is pretty close to the well known prisinor's dellema which is plastered all over the internet if you want to read it.

Here is the background. You and your friend are good friends. You can't recall the last time you have ever fought or gotten into arguments. Both of you are roughly equal at getting women but never fight over women. Sometimes you have a better weekend, sometimes he does. For all purposes, you two are nearly similar.

Here is the scenario. A few years back, you and your last girlfriend parted ways. you still keep up, but its not very frequently. Still, you wouldn't want to hear her tell you about sex from the night before, but you don't really care about who she dates. She moved area and your buddy is on business and wants to see the town. So he drops her a line and is like 'lets chill. show me around'. She obliges. meanwhile a situation arises where you have a chance to hang out with a chick your boy was seeing for a while. It was never anything serious, but you get that vibe from this chick. The assumption here is that it would hurt either participant if they heard their friend hooked up with the other chick.

To turn this strictly into a mathematical problem, lets pretend here that the gains realized are getting laid and staying friends. That is what is controllable. It will be a choice of one of you to stay friends, but it is within both of your control to get laid with a chick.

1- Payout 1. The payout is the highest possible since both got laid, and that both understand that it wasn't anything personal. Yes, this might be twisted and somewhat unrealistic, but if both of you act in this behavoir, it'll be very hard to justify furor towards the other. The payout is arbitarily set to +2

2- payout 2. only YOU have sex, your boy doesn't. he result of this game is asymmetrical because your satisfaction is only slightly higher than his. While the friendship is lost, only you got laid so it wasn't as bad as the other guys abstaining and getting nothing out of it. However, this payout is symmetrical in the sense that the same value is assigned if HE gets it done and you get nothing. This is a tough one to explain and i'll edit this as I see fit. The result is either -2 or +2 depending on who had sex...its a bad situation.

3- Payout 3. No one gets laid, but the friendship is in tact. This option leaves you down because you did not get sex, but a friendship is still there so no biggie. +3 because nothing happens

Your Nash equilibria Matrix (don't unplug this one ;)

Sex (You)

Yes (+5) No( -2)

(Friend) Yes(+2) No(+3)


What you don't know is what your friend will do. It is impossible to know for sure. You must first vote on this premise alone. If people still care to play, I will follow this up.

Please feel free to question how I weigh things, and your thoughts on such a senario. Its highly idealized, but something which I am sure you can think about on your own. It brings to the table risk and rewards, but also an element of unpredictability. I am curious how people will weigh these things when making a choice.

/nerdrant off
 

Serialized3

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As a student of economics (with an emphasis in behavioral economics, even), I have to say that there are far too many subjective variables to come up with a general payoff matrix for such a situation.

In a vanilla world where we all had an identical, quantifiable level of attachment towards a ex-lover, as well as identical, quantifiable sexual/emotional sexual gratification levels, and also considering perfect information, we would likely end up in a zero-sum game.

However, in real life, this is not the case and can be derailed for simple reasons such as disparities in attractiveness of said ex-lovers, your attitude towards your friend, or the amount of time that has passed since you broke up, among many, many others.

Honestly, I spent time trying to come up with a workable payoff matrix for the four different outcomes I came up with, but I couldn't even realistically quantify how another man might feel about me banging his ex.

Hell, if you couldn't get me to come up with a solution for this, good luck getting other member of SS to participate ...
 

runner83

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Saw from your past posts you are a mechanical engineer.

I'm a civil engineer (roads, bridges) but even I thought this was a bunch of useless theorizing, attempting to quantify the unquantifiable.

Dude, get laid already and get it out of your system.

So you want to go ahead and bang your friend's ex?

No need to put this up attempting to justify it. It'll feel good, trust me.
 

ARrocket

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Well, as a purely theoretical exercise in game theory, wouldn't we have a Nash equilibrium in which both myself and my friend sleep with the other person's ex?

If I do sleep with her, I'm guaranteed a payoff of +2. If I do not, I *could* get a payoff of +3, but I would be screwed if my friend slept with my ex, and could wind up with a payoff of -2. Rather than take this risk, I sleep with my friend's ex, guaranteeing a positive payoff. This is all assuming we don't have a probability distribution over the choices. Correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't do so well in game theory class anyway :(

In real life, however, I probably wouldn't do it.
 

synergy1

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runner83 said:
Saw from your past posts you are a mechanical engineer.

I'm a civil engineer (roads, bridges) but even I thought this was a bunch of useless theorizing, attempting to quantify the unquantifiable.

Dude, get laid already and get it out of your system.

So you want to go ahead and bang your friend's ex?

No need to put this up attempting to justify it. It'll feel good, trust me.
Don't worry bro, I get laid plenty. If you think this post is a reason to justify sleeping w/ a broad, you are mistake. I take what I want without posting about it here. I don't see the harm in seeing what the community might have to say. If you don't like the poll, get the fvkc out.

If I do sleep with her, I'm guaranteed a payoff of +2. If I do not, I *could* get a payoff of +3, but I would be screwed if my friend slept with my ex, and could wind up with a payoff of -2. Rather than take this risk, I sleep with my friend's ex, guaranteeing a positive payoff. This is all assuming we don't have a probability distribution over the choices. Correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't do so well in game theory class anyway

I am no expert so don't take this to the bank. If you decide to go for it, you have a chance ( unknown chance ) to either get a good score or a bad one. The idea is that you really don't know and its up to you to decide the risk you want to take.


In a vanilla world where we all had an identical, quantifiable level of attachment towards a ex-lover, as well as identical, quantifiable sexual/emotional sexual gratification levels, and also considering perfect information, we would likely end up in a zero-sum game.

However, in real life, this is not the case and can be derailed for simple reasons such as disparities in attractiveness of said ex-lovers, your attitude towards your friend, or the amount of time that has passed since you broke up, among many, many others.


Right, I was trying to make the external factors similar or irrelevant. Obviously this isn't real life at all. That said, I wouldn't do it. The risk is too high for such a small payout for me. I can get risk free sex from other places.
 

ARrocket

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synergy1 said:
I am no expert so don't take this to the bank. If you decide to go for it, you have a chance ( unknown chance ) to either get a good score or a bad one. The idea is that you really don't know and its up to you to decide the risk you want to take.
How so? Maybe I'm just not understanding the payoffs correctly, sorry if that's the case.
 

squirrels

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Dude...what is the "taboo" about sleeping with friends' exes?

You guys need to grow up. :rolleyes:

An EX is an EX. You don't owe any special obligation to not stick your d!ck there...he's done with it. Unless he JUST broke up with her that week and is still sore over it, the whole "I shouldn't sleep with his ex" idea is garbage.
 

synergy1

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squirrels said:
Dude...what is the "taboo" about sleeping with friends' exes?

You guys need to grow up. :rolleyes:

An EX is an EX. You don't owe any special obligation to not stick your d!ck there...he's done with it. Unless he JUST broke up with her that week and is still sore over it, the whole "I shouldn't sleep with his ex" idea is garbage.
Lighten up francais, I am not casting judgment either way - hence the question. Find here I said such a thing was 'wrong'. Sure, I said feelings might have gotten hurt, but thats it. Even than, its something I just made up.
 

backbreaker

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It's a case by case senerio. I have had friends **** my exes and I could care less. I have ex's that if a friend of mine touched, it would be done with, in fact that's why I booted one of my old best friends.

The problem with your scenerio is that all x's aren't equal. some ment more than others did. If I am ****ing a girl you went on 2 dates with and got a BJ from you just need to dealwithit.gif. If I am ****ing someone you were in love with and thought about marrying.. that's a different story.

if any friend of mine was banging my now fiancee if we broke up i'd kill him. well not literary but any type of friendship would not even be considerable at that point, becuase he knew damn well what she meant to me and he went on anyway which tells me that he gets some type of happiness out of seeing me hurt. There is no situation where I could just deal with that. But for instance, I had girl I ****ed a few times, and I found out she was ****ing my best friend, honestly, i was like dude why didn't you just tell me lol man i dont' care.
 

synergy1

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How so? Maybe I'm just not understanding the payoffs correctly, sorry if that's the case.


Treat them as somewhat arbitrary proxies. Think of it qualitatively. Its better to get some action and have no hard feelings than it is to get some action and make people upset. Its also not very good to get action even if no one cares. Don't take them too much to heart. How people vote might be more important.

What BB said said elaborated the dynamics a bit. To maybe pour more of the story out, my gf was pretty serious but its been over a while and I have been with a lot of chicks since so it wouldn't be as much of a deal breaker as it would have been a year ago. My boys chick is just a FWB, and he actually tried setting up his other friends w/ her. As for her , I am currently trying to wheel one or two of her friends, and she's been putting in some good words for me. Why screw up a good thing?

I want to comment on the votes, who's intention was to see more along the lines of how people risk their friendships vs women. Only a few thought their friends where dubious enough to do the same thing they would, and most said they would just because they had the opportunity. A small portion voted no, and 33% of the nos voted hoping for an altruistic no, so those folks could just as easily vote yes if their boy wheeled their ex. Overall, I think that people here value sex and have little problem risking it just for some tail. only 25% would put on the breaks for whatever reasons they might have. If a pole like this was conducted over millions of participants and similar figures were to come out, it would be safe to say that 1) Robert Greene was right and trust your friends only a little bit and 2) a real payout scheme could be devised. Not sure if its worth it since the bottom line is that people will go for tail....duh?

maybe another lesson here? A good chick/ person is hard to come by. Keep positive influences in your life!
 

backbreaker

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My whole thing is not necessarily how I feel about the girl, but, if a guy feels the need to date someone I ****ed / dated / lived with for months if not years.. what does that really say about the friend? Once you hit a certain point in relationships, that woman becomes off limits to all of your friends. that's just how it is. I dont' care how much time it's been. I don't care how many women I've been with sense. I marked the flag there.

It's one thing if I bring a girl around at a party on a date, we went out a few times, things weren't GREAT and we feel out of contact and she hooked up with one of my friends. I have no problem with that. That's pretty much what happned iwth hte one girl above, she was like plate 5 of 7 plates lol. I could care less. she was the girl i called when I got home rom the club to give me head. If one of my friends see something I don't, more power to him.

But if I am exclusive with a woman, we are living together, there is no situation where months after we break up you should even consider her.

I remember one night we were playing spades, my friend had a cutie pie over. Not to say I'm not attracted to black women but I have my preferences, and I tend ot like white women more. This was a fine ass black girl though, very pretty. Anyway, I had tried to talk to her in the mall randomlly one day and found out she was dating my friend, and instantly backed off. Instantly. no questions asked. Just didnt' know. Anyway, everyone leaves, i get a knock on my door like 20 mintues later, she had come back. I could have tapped that, and no one would have known. she wanted it. I told her i just couldn't do that to my guy. I wasn't wanting for sex and while she was a pretty, my friendship wasn't worth it.

Then to find out, that your friends on the other hand are running all around town trying to get in touch with your scraps/leftovers.. i should have ****ed the **** out of the girl lol.
 
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