gaining muscle while cutting? possible?

[swigue]

DIESEL and others: Here is a question I've had for some time but never can seem to get a straight answer to:

I understand that while on a cutting diet I am never going to gain as much muscle as if I were on a bulking diet, but...

For someone like me who is probably presently about 20lbs overweight (BTW: following DIESEL's routine I've lost 6 lbs, prob some water but still! in the last 2.5 weeks) who wasn't doing sh!t before lifting on this diet won't I add some muscle? IOW, isn't there a zone where I am losing fat and gaining muscle b/c of my lifting and increased protein intake? hopefully you understand what I am getting at. I guess my main point is: isn't that "can't gain muscle" more for people who are already plateaued or near plateau? While those fatties of us can add some muscle while losing fat? Since at this point "cutting" seems a bit of a misnomer to me.

thanks. -swigue

 

[DoctorLW]

No.

Gaining muscle requires a caloric surplus.
Cutting requires a caloric deficit.

Obviously, you can't do both at once.

Be patient and work on one thing at a time, results will come down the road.

 

[swigue]

This is what people keep telling me. I am not trying to be stubborn, but this makes no sense to me mathwise.

If I used to eat say 3000 cals a day that went to mainataining me at 210, and am now eating 1700 a day and lifting, why wouldn't some of those cals be going to building muscle and some to losing fat? IOW, couldn't some of the fat be turned into muscle (I don't mean this literally, I understand that it doesn't work like that but I mean in terms of cals in/cals out.

Otherwise by this theory you could never gain muscle while maintaining a steady # of cals, right? So according to your description if i kept my cals at 3000 I wouldn't be able to gain muscle. that's just not true. Like I said, I might gain more muscle on surplus cal diet, but I don't see why I can't gain some since I am out of shape. also, if this is true like everyone seems to say, why are my lifts going up?

I think that the above explanation is too simple.

 

[livin large]

Ok, you're fat and not doing anything about it. You have little muscle. You want to lose fat and gain a little muscle, right?

Ok, if you eat the same amount, but lift some weights and do some cardio, you're going to gain muscle and lose fat (not necessarily weight, but I'd bet you would lose weight too).

If anybody says you can't gain muscle without gaining fat they are full of sh*t. You can. Maybe not as quick, but you'll gain muscle.

I know people will disagree with this, but I've seen people in your shoes do both. Over a period of about 6 months I had a friend who was about 40 pounds overweight (he weighed 220) get down to 190 while increasing his strength.

Rather than have me try to rationalize how it was done, how about you do it and tell us all about it. Unless you don't have what it takes you lazy fat piece of sh*t. Go eat another burger lard-o.

(that last part was for motivation, fatass)

 

[swigue]

LOL

Thanks for the motivation.

This is pretty much what I figured, but I don't want to only agree w/ what I alreay thought so any other replies are happily taken.

My caloric deficit is pretty mild...probably 300 cals a day or so from before, but if you add in the cardio and lifting it probably jumps closer to 600 total less than before, maybe more depending on the day and whatever my metab is like.

 

[Drug_L0rd]

it is possible but very hard.

it is basically what body builder's (shivers up and down the spine) do.

it is called getting lean.

you need to have a ***STRICT*** diet. i really mean that. it's not really that workout that's the factor here but your diet. if you have the wrong diet you will not gain what you want.

 

[Viroid]

It can be done if you pay attention to EVERY DETAIL of your diet, workout, supps etc. Its a lot easier if you are a beginner or you are coming back after a long break.

It will be a VERY slow process, though. To me its not worth it because its easier to focus on one thing, its a lot faster and a lot less painful.

 

[swigue]

Not that I don't believe you guys, I wouldn't have asked if I knew the answer, but can someone explain to me WHY?

I am now 5'11, 203.

If i cut back to cals for 190, when my "ideal weight would be like 180 (this would be ultra lean for me, I am now 26 and was 171 cut as a wrestler in highschool, I have grown since then) then why can't I have the cal deficit go to fat loss, and the protein gain go to muscle? Am I clear? I am having a bit of trouble explaining this....

For reference here is my current workout and diet.

Day 1: Deadlifts, pulldowns, rows, curls

2: cardio

3: Bench, Inclines, close bench, tri presses

4: cardio

5: Squats, mil press

6: cardio

7 off

Diet:

Meal 1: 2 egg white omelette w/ spinach and tsp of feta. slice of unbuttered whole wheat bread.

Meal 2: protein bar

Meal 3: Sliced chicken and FF cheese on wheat, fruit

Meal 4: cottage cheese, fruit

Meal 5: Chicken, small baked potatoe w/ ff cheese, vegetable

Meal 6: protein shake.

this is roughly my diet, obviously it changes some tuna and another protein shake are sometimes subbed in.

Oh also taking flax seed oil and a multivitmain.

and as per my other post occasionally mix in swimming 2 nights a week depednign on how I feel.

edited to add that on Day 7 I have a cheat day where I eat a burger or whatever else i feel like.

 

[Viroid]

Originally posted by swigue
Not that I don't believe you guys, I wouldn't have asked if I knew the answer, but can someone explain to me WHY?


Why what?

If i cut back to cals for 190, when my "ideal weight would be like 180 (this would be ultra lean for me, I am now 26 and was 171 cut as a wrestler in highschool, I have grown since then) then why can't I have the cal deficit go to fat loss, and the protein gain go to muscle? Am I clear? I am having a bit of trouble explaining this....

Yeah, i really dont understand what youre asking. Maybe if you can explain how you understand the physiology of cal intake/fat loss/muscle gain, we can steer you in the right direction.

 

[Soshyopathe]

YES, it can be done, and YES I've seen it happen.

Muscle increase does not have caloric overeating. My boy dropped 20 lbs, and his legs ended up bigger than before. It's all a timing issue. If you eat little during the day, you lose weight for that time, but if you lift heavy, and suck down major protein and calories after it, and keep your diet high protein, it can be done. Keep in mind though, this guy was really fat.

You'll lose total weight, but you can still put on marginal muscle.