Frustrated--clear IOI's, then signs of low interest

[sageproduct]

Alright i'm in high school, but it's hard to get good advice there except from eaglez. I'll keep this as short as i can.

Girl at my school added me randomly on fb, chatted me out of nowhere one day about some class. got her number for the heck of it, didn't think much. Talked a few times over a month or so and had some "bet" thing going.

I lost the bet, payment was taking her out for ice cream.

Last tuesday, i took her out.
ice cream and bowling (on the spot), i paid for both
IOI:s
-laughing at EVERYTHING i said
-agreeing with everything i said
-agreeing to extend the date by going bowling
-letting me pay
-holding onto my hand for a sec when i offered mine for a high five
-kinoing me back a little
keep in mind, she's VERY inexperienced, a year younger, only hangs out with girl friends, pretty shy and innocent

the close
-i dropped her off
-walked up to her front door, she threw her arms around me before i got a chance to even look at her
-i took the hug and didn't pursue a kiss (my thoughts being that she was shy and it was the first time we had EVER met in person and that's kind of awkward for high schoolers)

pretty good, right? here's whats happened since tuesday
that night: i texted her a little joke about the 'date' and said good night
wed and thurs: i waited for her to text me but she never did. i was assuming her IL in me was at least 75%
fri (xmas): i couldn't wait anymore and texted her. talked a little bout xmas and i teased her a bit, then said to go ice skating with me tomorrow (sat). she said "ahh but i'm busy. another day."
sat: nothing
sun: i was surprised she didn't text me, at night i texted her to "hang out with me" and we tentatively agreed on tues
mon: assuming her IL was high, i waited for her to text me to finalize plans since i had initiated all our texting since our date. she never did
tues: texted me saying i never told her what my plans were and that now she's busy. i asked for tomorrow (wed), she said she's busy for the rest of winter break but 'maybe'. i'm out of town sat n sun but said fri maybe
wed (today): i told her what time i'm leaving friday, she said busy then said "so after [winter] break haha"

input? just frustrated cuz i'm pretty interested and confused on why her IL seemed to have dropped. what should i have done differently?

 

[Igetit!]

Well from everything you've written,it seems that you were a bit clingy/overeager.

You appeared to be more into her than she was into you.

Hmm. It seems like her IL was fine all the way up until the date happened,then after the date,that's where things seemed to go downhill.


It would be helpful to know the types of conversations you to had DURING THE DATE.


If you can remember what you two talked about,let us know.

Also,did you generate any type of feeling/emotion in her on the date...or were you just a "good/nice" guy with her?



Another thing that might help you is to look back at your behavior towards her from the moment you to started interacting with each other all the way up until the first date happened.



Look at your behavior from that time period vs. how you behaved with her AFTER the date took place. See a difference?

I'm sure you do.




Like I said,you seemed a bit over-eager to spend time with her after the date had happened,but knowing the convo that took place on the date should help shed some light on what went wrong.



Something's up. She had no problem finding time to go out with you before,now all of the sudden,she's "busy" throughtout the rest of the winter break?


Oh please.

 

[sageproduct]

Hey thanks Igetit, I actually explained in GREAT detail what happened on the date in my FR. Just realy condensed things here cuz I know those long posts get ya. But here's the link to my FR in the high school section
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=166387&page=5

I spent 2 posts talking about the date, starting from post #81 in my FR thread. A few posts later, eaglez did a fabulous job of analyzing it. In terms of what we actually talked about, I'll include some more info here.

What we talked about (as best I can remember):
-ice cream flavors
-little kids/childhood memories
-she asked me about my college apps
-she actually asked ME less questions than i think an interested female would normally ask
-i told a few more stories and talked more than i usually do with a girl
-her brother and his gf
-not really much time for silence
-i made lots of side comments while driving n sh1t (like making fun of cars) and she laughed at all of them
-even though i told a few funny stories, i managed to keep most of myself mystery from her
-trash talk during bowling
-a teacher we have (i think we did...)
-when i answered one of her questions with a vague answer that left myself mysterious, she didn't probe
-near the end i was describing feelings to her: driving at night with the windows open, etc. also talked about beautiful xmas lights for a bit

In terms of being a nice guy, it's how I usually talk to anyone but I don't thiiiink I acted too nice because I did tease her here and there without giving in and didn't just agree with what she said.

Interaction before the date:
-fb chat/text
-mostly initiated by her
-VERY ****y, attitude-1-up-type convos, even one where I seemed to be so harsh to her that she stopped talking
-almost everything i said was making fun of her
-she gave me some MAJOR answers to this homework thing
-after that i opened up to her and rewarded her by being 'nicer' and making plans to take her out

Interaction after the date:
-texting
-all initiated by me
-"normal" conversation
-now that i think of it, i only teased her once and it was kind of in a nicer way
-i was pushing to make plans-even tho I did make it clear that my time was valuable and that i was busy. and i did not show any signs of disappointment for her not being able to comply
-her last text that included the "so after break haha" i never responded to...i was kind of pissed when i got it and was doing something else and just ended up not responding.

That breakdown looks pretty obvious. Another area of concern though, is that this IS high school and someone told me high school girls are REALLY insecure and will think you're uninterested if you don't contact them for a coupl of days. This was really messing with my head.

 

[jophil28]

YOu were entertaining to her and she enjoyed being in your company - BUT not so that she wanted to do it again.

This happens to us all ..it is part of the overall game. Win..lose..lose.. WIN. WIN..then lose, lose..and so on..

You ever shoot targets at the range? How many 'tens' did you score in all those trigger pulls ?

 

[Igetit!]

Hey thanks Igetit, I actually explained in GREAT detail what happened on the date in my FR. Just realy condensed things here cuz I know those long posts get ya. But here's the link to my FR in the high school section
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=166387&page=5

I spent 2 posts talking about the date, starting from post #81 in my FR thread. A few posts later, eaglez did a fabulous job of analyzing it.

Well I went back and took a look at your FR concerning the date...and well,it seemed a bit boring.


A date is supposed to be romantic/sexual.

I didn't get that sense from what you wrote. You seemed more like a "fun" guy than a "sexual" one.


You seemed to overdose on comfort. You need a combination for both comfort and attraction.


It was like you were so focused on making her laugh,you forgot to be romantic/sexual.


Don't think that "shy" girls don't want a man to be sexual with them.

They do,they just need to feel comfortable enough to drop their guards.



Another thing:it's ok to poke some fun at yourself,but you don't want to be constantly putting yourself down or degrading yourself.




One BIG THING I saw was when you said that she was constantly talking negatively about her life,and that it sucks.



That's NOT GOOD.



If she was talking negatively about her life,that means she was feeling negative emotions WHILE SHE WAS SPEAKING.



And since she was speaking to you,and you didn't cut in and change the subject,that means she was feeling negative emotions while she was with YOU.



Sucks,don't it? She brought up a negative topic,but YOU get linked to the negative emotions simply because you were there.




That's why it's IMPORTANT for the guy to take the lead in conversation and steer it onto fun,exciting topics.




If you don't,the girl UNINTENTIONALLY will ruin the date/interaction FOR BOTH OF YOU.



It seems like you even tried to lighten things up by bringing up childhood memories,which most people have fond memories of,but it seems like even her childhood was bad.


So in this case,you bringing up childhood with her made things worse.


I think a lack of sexualness from you,plus the presence of negative emotions probably did you in.



If one of her friends were to ask her about how the date went,she'd probably say you were "nice",but that she didn't "feel" anything with you,meaning a spark/chemistry.



You should have been more romantic,meaning...


"I like the way you look in (whatever she was wearing)".

When she threw the bowling ball the first time,said something like,"Hey not bad. Nice form....and you bowl good too. ".


You see what I mean? Have a combination of attraction plus the comfort as well.


You seemed to leave out all the romantic/sexual part,and just focused on "fun",nonsexual/platonic fun.


Also,I agree with something Eaglez said:You don't have to wait until the end of the date to try to kiss her. He was also right when he said you needed to make the convo a bit more sexual.



Not the WHOLE conversation,just drop a bit in from time to time.



Like I said before,it seems like a lack of sexuality and a presence of negativity killed your chances for a second date.

 

[tsmith2334]

The IOIs on the date seem pretty strong, but she's not interested.

She would have found time for date 2, she's not bothering... not interested.

You can salvage this though. Lay low for the next 2-3 weeks, no contact. Then start from scratch. That will probably work.

 

[SchoolBoy]

You texted her the same night after the date, shoudln't of done that

Waiting around for her text shows u care too much about this

quit texting so much and just call her briefly to setup a date.. her cancelling on your date / flaking isn't because you didn't tell her your plans, it's because of low IL.

your date was alright, you seem to hit it off nicely, but since there was no kiss at all, cheek or lips. Take the lead, why didn't you kiss her. who cares if she's shy, be a man take the lead.

 

[sageproduct]

Well I went back and took a look at your FR concerning the date...and well,it seemed a bit boring.


A date is supposed to be romantic/sexual.

I didn't get that sense from what you wrote. You seemed more like a "fun" guy than a "sexual" one.


You seemed to overdose on comfort. You need a combination for both comfort and attraction.


It was like you were so focused on making her laugh,you forgot to be romantic/sexual.


Don't think that "shy" girls don't want a man to be sexual with them.

They do,they just need to feel comfortable enough to drop their guards.



Another thing:it's ok to poke some fun at yourself,but you don't want to be constantly putting yourself down or degrading yourself.




One BIG THING I saw was when you said that she was constantly talking negatively about her life,and that it sucks.



That's NOT GOOD.



If she was talking negatively about her life,that means she was feeling negative emotions WHILE SHE WAS SPEAKING.



And since she was speaking to you,and you didn't cut in and change the subject,that means she was feeling negative emotions while she was with YOU.



Sucks,don't it? She brought up a negative topic,but YOU get linked to the negative emotions simply because you were there.




That's why it's IMPORTANT for the guy to take the lead in conversation and steer it onto fun,exciting topics.




If you don't,the girl UNINTENTIONALLY will ruin the date/interaction FOR BOTH OF YOU.



It seems like you even tried to lighten things up by bringing up childhood memories,which most people have fond memories of,but it seems like even her childhood was bad.


So in this case,you bringing up childhood with her made things worse.


I think a lack of sexualness from you,plus the presence of negative emotions probably did you in.



If one of her friends were to ask her about how the date went,she'd probably say you were "nice",but that she didn't "feel" anything with you,meaning a spark/chemistry.



You should have been more romantic,meaning...


"I like the way you look in (whatever she was wearing)".

When she threw the bowling ball the first time,said something like,"Hey not bad. Nice form....and you bowl good too. ".


You see what I mean? Have a combination of attraction plus the comfort as well.


You seemed to leave out all the romantic/sexual part,and just focused on "fun",nonsexual/platonic fun.


Also,I agree with something Eaglez said:You don't have to wait until the end of the date to try to kiss her. He was also right when he said you needed to make the convo a bit more sexual.



Not the WHOLE conversation,just drop a bit in from time to time.



Like I said before,it seems like a lack of sexuality and a presence of negativity killed your chances for a second date.

Thanks so much man, it definitely makes sense. I see now that legitimate, observant comments do wonders if done in a mature way, and I can imagine that a girl would take them to heart. This is something I need to work on, since in my early stages of development the past few months I've been focusing on putting myself above the girl, etc. What are some more examples of being romantic/sexual? I remember reading that one should jump on innuendos that come up because girls love that. How would I move the conversation into a more sexual setting if the girl hasn't hinted toward it at all?

And along with what SchoolBoy said, ya I definitely got too interested too quickly. Which was kinda weird actually cuz I was nearing one-itis with this other girl up until I had this date. She was on my mind all week and I didn't even notice that I was being clingy. Finally getting over it now.

 

[Erik V]

YOu were entertaining to her and she enjoyed being in your company - BUT not so that she wanted to do it again.

This happens to us all ..it is part of the overall game. Win..lose..lose.. WIN. WIN..then lose, lose..and so on..

You ever shoot targets at the range? How many 'tens' did you score in all those trigger pulls ?

Yes, I agree. Sometimes there is no way to know what is going on. Things seem to go really well, and then nothing - it is frustrating, but it happens.


Sageproduct, I would try again after spring break, send her a message asking if she wants to do something in the weekend. That is all right, to send a message then, doesn't seem needy I think. If she says yes, then you go on - possibly whatever made her hold back has gone away then. If she says no, then no harm done, you tried and you haven't embarrassed yourself. Just one more experience to build on for the future.

 

[Weezy]

You texted her the same night after the date, shoudln't of done that

BOOM!! So True... Big fvck up there.

Waiting around for her text shows u care too much about this

Texting is for chicks. Only text to respond to a text.

your date was alright, you seem to hit it off nicely, but since there was no kiss at all, cheek or lips. Take the lead, why didn't you kiss her. who cares if she's shy, be a man take the lead.

Spot on SchoolBoy

 

[Igetit!]

WOO HOO, my first post of the new year...oh,I'm sorry Sage,got a little carried away there.


Alright,let's see what's up here...

Thanks so much man, it definitely makes sense. I see now that legitimate, observant comments do wonders if done in a mature way, and I can imagine that a girl would take them to heart.

True. You just need to be careful about how you go about making those comments.


If a girl goes on a date with you,then it's a pretty safe bet that she put some time and effort into her appearance.



It's ok to comment on how she looks,but you need to do it the right way,otherwise you run the risk of offending her,or worse,activating the attention wh0re in her.




To avoid offending her,don't say things about her anatomy,(her boobs or a$$),which I'm sure you already know.



Avoiding turning on the AW in her requires a bit more observation.



What I'm about to say might not seem that important but trust me on this...



When you compliment a girl,say "I".



Don't say things like,"You're hot",or "You're this" or "You're that".




Say,"I like the way you look in this or that".


"I like that shirt"




I know that saying "You look nice" and "I like the way you look in that dress" may seem like semantics,and not seem like a big deal,and to us (guys) it isn't.




But you need to remember that women are EMOTIONAL,and emotionally speaking,to women,THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.



You said something about lately you've been focusing on putting yourself first ahead of women. That's the right thing to do,and this what I'm telling you here is keeping in line with that.

What are some more examples of being romantic/sexual? I remember reading that one should jump on innuendos that come up because girls love that.

Yeah,this is true. Women do like innuendos.


Just keep in mind that when I say "sexual",I don't mean vulgar or obscene. And it's not always about a woman's appearance.


Something as simple as saying,"I WANT to see you" carries a romantic intent to it.




You need to be a bit more agressive,but at the same time respect her boundries.




For example:The last time you talked to her,you tried to set up another date,but she told you she couldn't make it for some reason.




I would have went at her with something like this....

you:Hey,let's go (wherever tomorrow).
her:Oh I can't. I already have plans.
you:Oh,so you have plans,huh? So? Break'em,I want you to hang with me.

And don't wear a lot of make-up,I don't want to spend the whole date wiping lipstick off my face".



That's it,that's all you have to do.


UNDERSTAND:the point of saying that to her IS NOT to get her to go back out with you again the next day,it's to STIR HER EMOTIONS.


Her reply doesn't matter. It doesn't matter whether she says yes or no,either way,YOU DEMONSTRATED that you're a MAN who goes for what he wants,and that's attractive to a woman.


You asked her out,she told you she couldn't go (rejection),and instead of feeling bad,you brushed her rejection aside like it was a knat flying around your head.



You'll have a better chance of her agreeing to go out with you by stirring up her feelings FIRST,then asking her out.

How would I move the conversation into a more sexual setting if the girl hasn't hinted toward it at all?

Well,I'm assuming we're still talking about being in the context of this happening on a date still.



So if you mean how do you move it in a sexual direction WHILE ON A DATE,the girl shouldn't have to "hint" at it at all.



The "DATE" itself is romantic/sexual. You wouldn't take a guy out on a date,would you? Of course not. Why? Because "dates" imply sexualness.




A girl doesn't have to hint at being sexual with you while you two are out.



The very fact that she accepted a date with you in the first place,means that on some level,there's some attraction there for you on her part.



Otherwise,she'd have just said no when you asked her out.



So THE VERY FACT that you two were out on a date ITSELF is permission for you to have romantic conversation with her.



Don't wait for her to "hint" at it. She gave you the green light to be romantic/sexual with her by agreeing to go out with you in the first place.



You just need to escalate. A slight comment here,a touch of the hand there,and move on upwards to a kiss at some point.



You're ok man,you just ran into a few bumps in the road,that's all.

 

[tsmith2334]

So if you mean how do you move it in a sexual direction WHILE ON A DATE,the girl shouldn't have to "hint" at it at all.



The "DATE" itself is romantic/sexual. You wouldn't take a guy out on a date,would you? Of course not. Why? Because "dates" imply sexualness.




A girl doesn't have to hint at being sexual with you while you two are out.



The very fact that she accepted a date with you in the first place,means that on some level,there's some attraction there for you on her part.



Otherwise,she'd have just said no when you asked her out.



So THE VERY FACT that you two were out on a date ITSELF is permission for you to have romantic conversation with her.



Don't wait for her to "hint" at it. She gave you the green light to be romantic/sexual with her by agreeing to go out with you in the first place.



You just need to escalate. A slight comment here,a touch of the hand there,and move on upwards to a kiss at some point.



You're ok man,you just ran into a few bumps in the road,that's all.

Repped.