From High IL to low IL-lessons learned

[violator]

Well, I called this girl this afternoon who showed all the signs that she was interested in me, i,e, proximity, puppy dog eye contact, personal questions, etc... I got the voice mail and no return call, for the second time.

I suspect she screening her calls and does not want to hear from me again.

Lesson learned: A woman's attention span when it comes to matters of love, romance or sex is quite short unlike a mans. She could change her mind for whatever reason at whatever time.

Just a rant for the day

 

[Interceptor]

Violator,
before you beat yourself up you have to realize, if you haven't yet already that:


Attraction can be raised, or lowered. It is rarely static. This is actually a good thing, since if you have a frim grasp on how attraction works between you and a woman, you have a better chance of raising it and maintaining it. Ultimately, we are all looking for quality companionship.
If you have a better grasp on how attraction works, you have a better chance of maintaining it. If you can maintain it, you have less of a chance regressing into any AFC type of behavior,. Thus, making your relationships more exciting and rewarding for both you and her.


You gave a lot more control over attraction level than you think. But the caveat is that you must be keenly aware and tuned in to your woman's interest levels. You must pay attention to what turns her on in particular. This does NOT mean that you must metamorphosize into a dancing monkey or anything else at her whims.
You must just pay attention to certain things she may like in particular.
You have basic, fundamental guidelines that we try to maintain in order to maintain a higher level of attractiveness to women. These attractive traits are your fundamental traits which you should have down at all times. We only try to "dial in" certain qualities, that ultimately emanate from your true, inner Self.

Second, do not place so much emotional involvement on a woman's interest level, or a woman you have just met.
This is fundamentally an absolutely neccesary strategy.
Number one Rule: "Protect That Heart."
We do so by not being so needy, needing her validation or anyone's validation, placing responsibility for our own happiness on another's shoulders.
And maintaining our Center, our Compass, and our Perspective.

If she is interested, you will hear from her again.
If she is not, you won't.
If she is interested, you will get clues given to you on how to proceed.
If you "know" this woman, and have a deeper understadning of women in general, and especially more than any of her loser boyfriends, you are halfway
there.
She may want to "qualify" you, to see if you're into her, are patient and understanding, and if you possess the qualities and traits she is looking for in a man.

Be patient.
Be patient with yourself.
Stay in control.
Stay in control of your emotions.
Do not demand anything from anyone.
You cannot control others, you can only control yourself.
Don't lose your center.

 

[violator]

Violator,
before you beat yourself up you have to realize, if you haven't yet already that:


Attraction can be raised, or lowered. It is rarely static. This is actually a good thing, since if you have a frim grasp on how attraction works between you and a woman, you have a better chance of raising it and maintaining it. Ultimately, we are all looking for quality companionship.
If you have a better grasp on how attraction works, you have a better chance of maintaining it. If you can maintain it, you have less of a chance regressing into any AFC type of behavior,. Thus, making your relationships more exciting and rewarding for both you and her.


You gave a lot more control over attraction level than you think. But the caveat is that you must be keenly aware and tuned in to your woman's interest levels. You must pay attention to what turns her on in particular. This does NOT mean that you must metamorphosize into a dancing monkey or anything else at her whims.
You must just pay attention to certain things she may like in particular.
You have basic, fundamental guidelines that we try to maintain in order to maintain a higher level of attractiveness to women. These attractive traits are your fundamental traits which you should have down at all times. We only try to "dial in" certain qualities, that ultimately emanate from your true, inner Self.

Second, do not place so much emotional involvement on a woman's interest level, or a woman you have just met.
This is fundamentally an absolutely neccesary strategy.
Number one Rule: "Protect That Heart."
We do so by not being so needy, needing her validation or anyone's validation, placing responsibility for our own happiness on another's shoulders.
And maintaining our Center, our Compass, and our Perspective.

If she is interested, you will hear from her again.
If she is not, you won't.
If she is interested, you will get clues given to you on how to proceed.
If you "know" this woman, and have a deeper understadning of women in general, and especially more than any of her loser boyfriends, you are halfway
there.
She may want to "qualify" you, to see if you're into her, are patient and understanding, and if you possess the qualities and traits she is looking for in a man.

Be patient.
Be patient with yourself.
Stay in control.
Stay in control of your emotions.
Do not demand anything from anyone.
You cannot control others, you can only control yourself.
Don't lose your center.

Wonderful response. So what should I do? She knows I am interested by calling her twice? I think calling her for a third time even after waiting the proverbial 1 week wreaks of desperation since any women would say to herself, "this guy called me twice already. He knows I know he called. Boy this guy is desperate. I think hes failed the test."

Not to sound bitter, but as far I am concerned the ball is in her court. If shes interested she'd make the effort. Otherwise its Next.

 

[Canadian Catnip]

Wonderful response. So what should I do? She knows I am interested by calling her twice? I think calling her for a third time even after waiting the proverbial 1 week wreaks of desperation since any women would say to herself, "this guy called me twice already. He knows I know he called. Boy this guy is desperate. I think hes failed the test."

Not to sound bitter, but as far I am concerned the ball is in her court. If shes interested she'd make the effort. Otherwise its Next.

I think that women look at dating completely differently then men. A man makes a date with a women and to him it's a chance to get to know the women. Chat with her and build rapport.

But for a women, I sometimes think that the purpose of making a date with a guy is to break it with him so they can see how he reacts. They are not as interested in all this chatting and building rapport at first. They want to see if you pass the first test before they go on a real date.

I have had a lot of women flake on the first date that I am starting to see it as a pattern. It's almost like Indiana Jones trying to get to the Holy Grail. He must pass all these tests before he is even allowed to guess at picking the Grail.

Heck a lot of mythology about a man going on a quest in order to win the women has probably been written about because men have always had to deal with tests from women through the ages.

500 years ago they told stories about fighting a fire breathing dragon and today we read sosuave posts about how she flaked on the first date.

 

[violator]

I think that women look at dating completely differently then men. A man makes a date with a women and to him it's a chance to get to know the women. Chat with her and build rapport.

But for a women, I sometimes think that the purpose of making a date with a guy is to break it with him so they can see how he reacts. They are not as interested in all this chatting and building rapport at first. They want to see if you pass the first test before they go on a real date.

I have had a lot of women flake on the first date that I am starting to see it as a pattern. It's almost like Indiana Jones trying to get to the Holy Grail. He must pass all these tests before he is even allowed to guess at picking the Grail.

Heck a lot of mythology about a man going on a quest in order to win the women has probably been written about because men have always had to deal with tests from women through the ages.

500 years ago they told stories about fighting a fire breathing dragon and today we read sosuave posts about how she flaked on the first date.

So what are you supposed to do to pass the test?

First of all I did not even get to the point of asking her for a date.

I got her number after she showed alot of interest and then called her twice with no response.

 

[reset]

Another great post Interceptor. "Protect the heart", that is something we just have to remind oursleves. It's our strength...

Gving your "heart" is only something you do to someone who has earned it, over time.

And I think you can only do that if you see yourself as the prize. You can only do this if you value yourself to the degree that you truly believe you deserve the best, and you hold yourself to a certain standard... that standard being not settling.

 

[Max Power]

This goes against the teachings of Pook and others who want to elimate problems early on, but Tyler Durden has an interesting theory on phone game.

5- Giving up if the girl stands you up, because you think she isn't attracted.


For me, there are a few things that I'll do when it comes to the phone. First, if a girl flakes me, I'll tease her on it in a funny way. I never get angry or look genuinely upset about it. I never focus on reasoning with them logically.

I also don't give up if a girl doesn't call back. At the same time, if they say they'll call back I'll say I don't get upset like I know they won't. I'll just say "OK cool." and give them the chance. But then if they don't call back when they said they would, I'll call back a bit later and just re-initiate the conversation as if I don't even remember that they didn't follow up.

Now when it comes to the idea that "if a girl disrespects me I'll NEXT her", that isn't my frame at all. To me, you can't NEXT a girl who you haven't slept with. In my view, that's just her NEXT'ing you. It's only a girl that I'm already with that I'll do this to if she annoys me or crosses my boundaries.

For a girl I haven't slept with yet though, I have a certain beliefs. She owes me nothing. It's all a game. No relationship or connection exists between us until we've been together physically, because she reserves the right to walk away at any point. I have no emotional ties to the interaction, and I have no ego about it. I just do what I think will work.

I also believe that there is a fundamental problem with many of the social ideas about how often and when to call. For example, there exists an idea in society that waiting to call will create scarcity and value, as well as increase anticipation. To me this is very wrong thinking. Notice that it stems from the fact that 99% of pickups in society are SOCIAL CIRCLE pickups. So for that kind of phone number, you'd have probably had the tension building for weeks or months before the number was exchanged. Of course waiting is better – it’s been building for months. But for girls you met on a cold approach, that is not the case.

I know what world the girls live in. They live in the same world that I do. The world where you meet tons of girls (in their case its guys), and tons of them like you and tons of them validate you. When I get home from a club, I literally cannot remember the names or faces of girls I met. To be more accurate, I literally barely remember the names or faces of the last three girls I had sex with. I just got off the phone with a girl that I was with less than twelve hours ago, and PlayboyLA and I had to think for five minutes about what her name was before I returned her call. And I LIKED that girl. I remember she was a hot brunette around my height, and seemed cool. But that's about it.

For girls, it’s the same. They can barely remember anyone they meet, because they meet so many people. To make matters even worse, they become disassociative while they're in the club. Many of them have even had had a few drinks, but you couldn't tell. Of course, you can do daytime pickup. But regardless, the girls still have access to many other good looking alpha guys the second they want it. Most guys don't even realize that it is very rare that an attractive girl is not getting laid by one or more other guys. That's even when they're single. They're still sleeping with their ex-boyfriends, or some player on the side. It's not like a hot girl is NOT getting laid, anymore than you wouldn't be if you had the instant option. So when you're calling, they are about as motivated to meet up with you as you would be to drive across town to a good Italian restaurant, when you're eating a good bowl of Chinese right in front of you. Sure, the Italian would be great. But you have an unlimited Chinese buffet sitting right here. Why would you be bothered?

The girls don't get that needy feeling that the guys get. They are always validated, because they've been in the club at least twice a week, getting validated by all the guys complimenting them and buying them drinks.

When it comes to how I handle the phone, I don't worry that if I call back multiple times it will make me look bad. Because I have high social value, and don't subcommunicate any neediness, I can call as much as I want. In fact, I'll call two or three times in a row if she's not picking up, back to back. I'll call back whenever I feel like it, because it’s obvious that I'm amusing myself and that I don't really care. I could take it or leave it, and I'm just having fun. I'll call and shoot the ****, and then hassle her until she meets up. Whatever.

 

[Interceptor]

Max. IMHO , it doesn't go against Pook.
It is reframed.
But there are the same underlying points. Just framed differently.
Notice that he has no emotional "connection".
They "owe each other nothing."
He doesn't get upset.
Hot women are always gettign validation, for most of their lives.
They are not impressed with the "average guy".
Our role is NEVER to be "average". And this has only marginally to do with our dealings with women.


This is important to realize:

The girls don't get that needy feeling that the guys get. They are always validated, because they've been in the club at least twice a week, getting validated by all the guys complimenting them and buying them drinks.


They get consistent reinforcement. They become more socallyl "savvy" better and quicker than most males.

Finally, while there ARE fundamental principles we're dealing with here, always remind yourself that YOU are YOU. You are not Tyler Durden or whomever.

What do YOU want to communicate?
How do you feel about neediness or whatever?

What kind of moral, ethics. standards, integrity do YOU have??

 

[Phyzzle]

Here's another good post about gaming those "easily distracted" girls.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=81724

As for me, I don't have the time. I would give up after 2 calls. Take it as a compliment: she gave you the # because she knows you're not some creep who's going to keep calling and calling, and she knows you basically "get it" when it comes to women, but she's just not that interested.

 

[Max Power]

Finally, while there ARE fundamental principles we're dealing with here, always remind yourself that YOU are YOU. You are not Tyler Durden or whomever.

What do YOU want to communicate?
How do you feel about neediness or whatever?

What kind of moral, ethics. standards, integrity do YOU have??

Yeah, I guess that's the concluding point for the original poster. Set your own rules on when to next this chick.

 

[rrrrr]

You gave a lot more control over attraction level than you think. But the caveat is that you must be keenly aware and tuned in to your woman's interest levels. You must pay attention to what turns her on in particular. This does NOT mean that you must metamorphosize into a dancing monkey or anything else at her whims.
You must just pay attention to certain things she may like in particular.
You have basic, fundamental guidelines that we try to maintain in order to maintain a higher level of attractiveness to women. These attractive traits are your fundamental traits which you should have down at all times. We only try to "dial in" certain qualities, that ultimately emanate from your true, inner Self.

At the same time you cannot be someone you're not. What happens when she's a girl turned on by very smart guys who play chess and work on computers all the time, so you try to act this way and talk about your new Intel Athlon processor, and can't name one chess player? Or she likes "bad boys" so you brag to her about going 5 mph over the speed limit to work? She will see right through your little charades and you'll be worse off.