From bitter cynic to romantic chode? Help before it's too late.

[\O/]

Hey guys. I'm lost and I don't know why..

I've been single for 3,5 years after a tough breakup with my ex. Then i found the community and tried to better myself to get the girls i wanted and also got some nice tools in my toolkit. During those years i've slept with 35 girls of various hotness. During this time I have never been in love or felt anything towards any girls except maybe slight fascination. I've been bitter, angry, demotivated and protected my own feelings. I haven't opened up to anyone so that I wouldn't risk being hurt again.

I started with tricks and gimmicks. C&F bordering rudeness, bodylanguage and also trying to better my personality. I had occasional success, but never really been able to link specific actions to changing successrate. I got tired of everything and just gave up, hoping that things would just automaticly happen for me because I'm a nice guy and sooner or later some girl would come along and make me happy.

Then this summer I met a girl. We worked together and the first time i saw her, I caught myself thinking that this was the kind of girl that I would never be able to get. And it hurt thinking that. I didn't even try flirting at first. Bitter because I could never have her so why even bother?

This was a salesjob, where we worked together 24/7. I was the best on our team, and had the respect of the others because i always delivered the best results. This boosted my confidence alot and I felt pretty good about myself. Turned out this girl was very cool to be around. Extremely feminine and girly-girl but she likes "guy-humour". We started flirting and became friends very fast, within a week we knew eachother pretty well. I'm a person who can be very authoritative. I'm firm, decisive and not afraid to speak my mind. I found out later that these are traits that attracts her to me..

Then one night at a job party, we hooked up. I consider myself average looking. Maybe a 6+. I'm kinda short and I think i'm to thin aswell. This girl is objectively one of the most beautiful girls I have ever seen. I never give out tens, but she is definately a 9. And my scale is strict. Every guy wants her.

Now this girl is my girlfriend.. We've known eachother for only 3 months. After our summerjob ended, we went back to our seperate cities but decided to continue the relationship from a distance. This is only a temporary solution until christmas and we fly to eachother every other weekend for 4 or 5 days each time.

For the 2nd time in my life, and for the first time in 3,5 years I have developed strong feelings for a girl. I actually feel very much in love. Best thing is that it's mutual. So, with a new high-paid job, prettiest girlfriend in the world and all possibilities ahead, I still feel uneased.

This is what i feared. I don't want to fall into afc-land. I don't want oneitis. I can feel it coming. After so many years of cynic bitterness and emotional withhold it feels GREAT to be in a good, healthy relationship. It's almost too good to be true.. It makes me want to open up to her and tell her everything. Every itty bitty problem, thought and feeling. I need to find a way to silence the whiney voice. It feels so good to be so connected, have great communication and be so open towards eachother. I'm frickin' making kissingnoises on the phone and i'm being nosiously romantic.. It feels right.

It's a downward spiral. I've set my self up for disaster. If this thing goes bad, I KNOW i will be hurt for a long time and it will be hard. I can feel it already. Scary. Funny thing is..the relationship couln't be better so i have no reason to think like this, taking the sorrows in advance instead of keep building the good thing we have.

Last night on the phone, we talked about past sexual history. She knows my number. I don't want to know hers, but i'm too curious not to think about it, so i have an estimate. She is 22 now and has had a few short relationships. Longest lasted 1 year. She has dated alot! I think she have had between 15 and 20 sexpartnes from 14 to 22. It's a guess, but i think it's close. I have NEVER had problems with girls past sexual history before. Atleast not since my first girlfriend many years ago. I thought i was good at ignoring it. Appearently i was wrong. I can't STOP thinking about it. She has never had a one-nigt stand. She has always felt secure and met the guy more times before having sex. I know the names of some of her past guys, ex'es on facebook. They are all VERY goodlooking. Alot more handsome than me and also all naturals it seems. Yet, she says that she has only felt infatuation before, but now she really feels in love. I believe her.

But all my insecurities that I thought i had gotten rid of came back. The secure guy that leads are shrinking as the whiney voice comes through.. I know it's because i'm so scared that i will lose her. Never have a relationship with anyone unless you are 100% happy with yourself first. That's something i've always lived by. And i thought i was there. I don't know how to get rid of all those thoughts. I feel angry, insecure and sad because of her past. I fail the ****tests when she mentions hotness of other guys jokingly to get a reaction from me. It's pathetic. I try to keep an outer fasade, and it's still holding, but it's getting more and more difficult. I think a part of me is jealous. I've never been able to get the girls i've always wanted until now, but she has always been able to. I've only had insignificant ons but she has had dynamic "relationships" with most or all of her partners. I'ts not fair. I've had more sexpartners, so i know it smells hypocracy.

She is with me. By her own choice. Out of everyone. She can have anyone. Why do i think of this **** and feel so annoyed and bothered by it? Jealousy is a *****, but not feeling like you deserve someone, when you know you do is worse

Any opinions please?

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

The problem I'd say the majority of guys first coming into the 'community' succumb to is that they're looking for a magic bullet. After years of confusion, frustrations and disappointments they want the secret formula that will grant them unlimited access to unlimited sexuality. Unfortunately, all the PUA skills and techniques that they master, and finally see some success with, don't prepare them for a real fundamental understanding of the dynamics in play. They can flip on the TV and enjoy it - who cares how it works?

PUA skills are vital for your toolbox, but they cannot teach you to kill your inner AFC. That takes more effort than most guys are willing to acknowledge. Seeking out methods to get laid have an obvious motivation, but real personal change takes effort and most guys are too preoccupied with their new success to think about it. Why would they? They're getting laid consistently for the first time in their lives. If it aint broke, what's to fix, right?

But nothing's broke until a guy invests himself in a the hottest girl he's ever been able to pull. His skills allow him access, but he's won the lottery and doesn't know how to handle it. He's got the girl of his dreams and decides to go back to a monogamy mindset (or enters one for the first time). None of his PUA gurus had anything to say about what to do with the big fish once it was in the boat, so he falls back on the only thing he's ever known - his AFC skill set.

She's insanely, and he thinks undeservedly, hot. Far beyond what he's, up to this point, considered his league. As the LTR progresses, this is stressed further by the guys who've been in her past. They look as if they WERE the type a girl of her calibre deserved to be with. And so it progresses - the first hobgoblin of the AFC - his Scarcity Mentality takes hold of him.

The problem is now he feels as if he's sold his Dream Girl on a guy he was supposed to be; the ****sure PUA with all the self-confidence those techniques afforded him. He doesn't believe it, and never makes the cross-over into becoming a DJ (positively masculine Man). He still thinks he's playing a role, masking a deficit; only this time he's got his HB 9 Dream Girl at stake. There's only ONE of her, right? She's rare, so he falls back further into AFC mode and feels the need to re-qualify himself - something she's not used to after having had to qualify herself to him for so long. He progressively hands back the frame to her in the hopes she'll "love him for who he is", by JUST BEING HIMSELF. Only he's not himself.

He never makes the change - and in some respects this might be part of his AFC maturation - and so reverts back to the only thing he knows, his AFC mentality. His Dream Girl was attracted to his bearing, his confidence, his status, looks, etc., but now she's in question of it as a result of him questioning it. He doesn't know what to do, he wasn't prepared. The PUAs gave him a black belt after a month in the dojo and now he's in a real fight.

\0/ what you're involved in is a process of killing your AFC while you're in an LTR. My first advice is to resign yourself to losing this particular girl. Not because she's out of your league, but because she's simply 22 and you wont own her any time soon. Hot women in this demographic are in their party years and are going to want to enjoy them. Monogamy is incongruous with that. My guess is you're trying to better identify yourself with what you think are her expectations and this is the most sure way she'll drop you that much sooner. You MUST fearlessly maintain your own identity. The more you pander to what you think she expects or is entitled to as a hot girl, the further she wants to distance herself from you.

I use the word 'fearless' because this is what halts most guys in your position in their tracks. They're afraid to lose the girl they never should deserve. That's the key element of a Scarcity Mentality. This fear is what will compromise you, and ultimately drive her away. She's NOT unique, she''s only the first truly hot woman you've connected with. You must keep her qualifying to you and that involves risk. You have to sustain that anxiety she has, even if it's just subtle.

As you're engaged in this, you must make the transition to becoming a Man; not a chump with a hot GF. You have to be the Man whose role you've only up to now have been playing. Remember, YOU decide who you're going to be. You're not a poser, not a faker when you can comfortably live it. Personality is changeable. You need to transition into owning the identity you create for yourself. Half the reason you feel inadequate is because you believe that a girl as hot as she SHOULDN'T be with a guy like you - and you're right, so long as you remain the guy you were in your head.

 

[Sinistar]

Much wisdom in the preceding post!

\O/, it sounds like you never got rid of your pedestal (and a few other things) over all those years.

How about short and blundt observation (which isn't the norm for me):

1.) You are AFC right now.
2.) You have one-itis.
3.) Your perceived hotness factor for her is an increasing function of your knowledge of her past BF's and s3xual history.
4.) She owns your frame rignt now because of 1,2,3.
5.) This is now a LDR
6.) Your most recent LTR experience was when you were in your early 20's or late teens.
7.) She is way to young to be in LTR mode.
8.) You are probably a bit too young to be in LTR mode.
9.) Ironically, even when we're AFC we are hearing out gut twinging - we just tend to overreact instead of finding indifference.
10.) At her age of 22 and given her past, you will most definitely not be her last s3xual partner.
11.) You are jealous.

...I could probably go on. Just about everything we do whether we succeed or fail, whether we feel good or feel bad is really just extra knowledge and wisdom for what we do next.

Maybe you should put some distance between you and her. This isn't to punish her for her past, rather for you finally find your inner DJ. Start spinning plates again but this time put the focus back on your life first. When you were young you were in a LTR goal state. After that train wrecked you, you shifted into a intimacy goal state. Neither has worked. So maybe you should keep meeting women but 'dare' to get to know each one a bit better at the risk of having to hurt a few and being hurt by a few along the way.

One last thing, it would seem that your previous LTR ending was very difficult for you. Look at how it affected you over the following years. If you fear every relationship ending will do that to you again, you will self fulfill that prophecy time and time again.

 

[\O/]

I disagree. I'm actually very confident. I'm highly paid, working in finance, status, no problems talking or flirting with girls (any hotnessfactor) and I never supplicate or visibly give up my power. I just have some minor insecurityissues, but i'm actually very happy with myself, my life and my personality (including my ability to get girls)[/B]


2.) You have one-itis.
I do not. I feel like i have very good insight in this situation, and i know that if i loose my grip, i might get oneitis. That's why i'm writing this and adressing it before it becomes an issue.


3.) Your perceived hotness factor for her is an increasing function of your knowledge of her past BF's and s3xual history.

I don't know. But i know that 9 out of 10 on this forum would rate her a 10. She is insanely beautiful. I know 9s and 10's get thrown around, but i'm strict with the points and she is not anything like the 8 or 9's people post about on here. I'm well used to dating pretty girls, but she is just extremely stunning. I've never had problems dating girls because i think they are too pretty. I feel like i deserve the best.

4.) She owns your frame rignt now because of 1,2,3.

The only people knowing that is me, and you because i told you. In our relationship I own the frame (Very much so). I'm just afraid that if i surrender my behaviour to the thoughts i'm having that the shift might actually switch. She percives me as higher value than her at this point. I've excelled in front of her in different areas of life and she adds that to my value. She also has her own insecurities, as most humans do.


5.) This is now a LDR

True, temporarily. I think this is healthy for a while. It really has intensified our relationship. If you have already established value, it will only grow stronger and bigger if you withdraw yourself. (48 laws of power) It builds everything up in our imagination and takes the realationships to a deeper level. It's only 3 more months anyways and we see eachother pretty often already. Sometimes tough, i'll admit.

6.) Your most recent LTR experience was when you were in your early 20's or late teens.

Yes, way too young to be in a relationship, i agree.

7.) She is way to young to be in LTR mode.

I disagree. She is almost 23, soon finished her education and been sexually active sincve the age of 14. She is tired of the dating game, "running around" and is looking for something a little more serious. Her words. It's a too big generalization to say that a 22 year old girl is to young for LTR mode. It's all about values.

8.) You are probably a bit too young to be in LTR mode.

Maybe, but i feel ready for it. I've had enough "random" fun. I've dated alot, i've experienced relationships. I'm in a fulltime job and looking to buy my first apartment these days. I'm already established to some extent. I no longer feel the need to be free and single. I've worked on myself and focused on other things for years. I'm ready to commit myself one step further. I don't intend to just quit a relationship just because it's bad timing or to protect my heart from being broken. Heartbreak passes. I'm ready to take another shot. I can take it. I'm a big boy.

9.) Ironically, even when we're AFC we are hearing out gut twinging - we just tend to overreact instead of finding indifference.

...

10.) At her age of 22 and given her past, you will most definitely not be her last s3xual partner.

Again, generalizations. People actually do find eachother at some point and some people actually stick togehter and are happy. I know it's getting more and more rare, but it happens. And if you don't take some chances you will never find out. She's never been unfaithful to this point in her life. So, relationships are tough but some are worth atleast a commited shot..

11.) You are jealous.

This is the main issue. I never used to be. Only just a healthy portion of jealousness. That's why i wrote this post. This is not common for me. Normally i have a very relaxed and indifferent attitude towards jealousy and other guys. I never get jealous when guys try to hit on her. I expect it. I just have trouble dealing with her past. Not the physichal part, but mostly that she's had emotional connections with guys before me. Intimate moments of feelings. I want private ownership of those emotions. Physically in bed i stand back for no man, so that's not an insecure area.
--------------------------------------------

...I could probably go on. Just about everything we do whether we succeed or fail, whether we feel good or feel bad is really just extra knowledge and wisdom for what we do next.

Maybe you should put some distance between you and her. This isn't to punish her for her past, rather for you finally find your inner DJ. Start spinning plates again but this time put the focus back on your life first. When you were young you were in a LTR goal state. After that train wrecked you, you shifted into a intimacy goal state. Neither has worked. So maybe you should keep meeting women but 'dare' to get to know each one a bit better at the risk of having to hurt a few and being hurt by a few along the way.

One last thing, it would seem that your previous LTR ending was very difficult for you. Look at how it affected you over the following years. If you fear every relationship ending will do that to you again, you will self fulfill that prophecy time and time again.

I DID put distance between girls and me. I DID develop my inner DJ. I was (am) fearless, confident, controlled, calm and happy. I was all those things when i met her. I'm just afraid that falling in love will make me alter my behavior. It hasn't happen yet. All i'm writing here is going on inside my head. Outwards and in our relationship all is peachy. I'm always leading, joking, teasing, gentleman, respectful and hold a strong frame. I just fear that my inner thoughts will reflect in the way i behave and act as the relationship develops..

 

[Andy_Dufresne]

I'm gonna distill Rollo's great post to basically state that deep down...... you feel you do not deserve her.

Going forward this will manifest itself in your actions and you will lose her, unless you change your attitude.

\O/, what makes you feel you DON'T deserve her? Ask yourself that. You're a successful guy. You took the risk of sleeping with a bunch of other women....and you found your dream babe. You made all the right moves to keep her (except discussing past sexual history after 3 months....you need a bvtch slap for that one).

Next time you are with her out on the town and , think "I deserve this." Next time you are in bed with her think "I deserve this...this is what I worked hard for." Catch my drift?

Like him politically or not, think John McCain. He landed a babe wife, much better looking than him, totally loaded, 20 yrs younger, because after being holed up for 5 years in the Hanoi Hilton he came out, met Cindy a few years later, and I'm sure he thought to himself at the time..."I deserve this!"

 

[wjh]

another fantastic post by rollo!

 

[Sinistar]

I just fear that my inner thoughts will reflect in the way i behave and act as the relationship develops..

...they will and they have.

You are for some reason insecure (ie unsure, jealous, doubting, etc). A guy who has found the DJ way can almost be mistaken for being indifferent. I think you've reverted to AFC'dom because of the length of your post - not what is in it. How often do the DJ's you respect here author moderate-large sized posts regarding insecurities. They don't. They have reached a point where they recognize it, deal with it and move on. If they have a good thing going they don't doubt it they just enjoy it, figure they've earned it and flow with it rather than questioning it (eg - her past intimacy #'s).

You talked about losing your grip. There is a difference between a mindset and a grip. When I hear grip, I get the sense your are trying to hold tight to something you might lose or fear you may never find again (ie RT's Scarcity Mentality).

The inner DJ in you knows that everything has a beginning, middle and end. For some reason you are struggling with a fear of doing something (or not doing something) which will lead to its end. That mindset is almost always self fulfilling isn't it? It's self fulfilling because it's rooted in a struggle to control what you can not.

You can never change her past or what you know about it and how you initially perceived the value of her past partners. This doubt is what puts you in her frame. Just the fact that she kids you about these other guys tells me she is very comfortable and open in your relationship.

And soon you'll might find yourself in another dilema. If you try to pull back, become less talky or mushy or romantic, she'll lock onto that vibe too and think something is wrong. Since you live long distance she'll think you're up to
something else (these uneasy feelings at long distances always kill LDR's) and even if your not it will spiral, she'll add partners 21,22,23 to her list and bingo your initial jealousy will just self fulfill itself.

There was already good advice in this post. Tell yourself this is great, that you deserve it and she's one of your many rewards in life for putting yourself first. Maybe it will last a lifetime or maybe your seeds of insecurity have grown into something larger than this relationship can handle.

I think it's awesome that you are successful in life and business and with women. Many guys don't even know that it's their right to have all that stuff. They will be chumps all their lives.

 

[KontrollerX]

Wow, Rollo that post deserves its own thread.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

5.) This is now a LDR

True, temporarily. I think this is healthy for a while. It really has intensified our relationship. If you have already established value, it will only grow stronger and bigger if you withdraw yourself. (48 laws of power) It builds everything up in our imagination and takes the realationships to a deeper level. It's only 3 more months anyways and we see eachother pretty often already. Sometimes tough, i'll admit.

LDRs are NEVER healthy. You're convoluting Law 16: Use Absence to Increase Honor. While you may like to quote this, and it is effective when it's use is calculated, the fact is you have no choice in the matter so you're turning your necessity into a virtue. If you're still consistently too available to her over the distance (i.e. long phone calls, texts, IMs, emails) you only emphasize your clingy-ness more so than if she were living 5 minutes away.

I think this is your main issue. You worry she'll lose interest over the time you're playing LDR, and seeing and hearing about her past BFs is only exacerbating this because your inner AFC is telling you she'll hook up with a guy like them in the interim and/or you don't rate a girl this hot. Am I right?

 

[true romance]

I read this thread twice....this post must be framed and it's required reading for all ...
RT and Sin...# 1 !!!

 

[sodbuster]

Some of that sh!t will bother you forever,you'll just have to deal with it or come to an understanding with your GF/wife. 20 years from now when you've done the deed a couple thousand times,when you want to and she doesn't; you'll think-she put out for popcorn and a movie at age 14,I make $200,000 a year,help raise our kids, etc. but isn't interested in sex now[so popcorn and a movie are more valluable than what I've done?]

If you are going down the relationship road, she'll tear out your heart; when you have kids,sometimes they will do it also. Get used to being hurt,means you are still alive.

 

[\O/]

LDRs are NEVER healthy. You're convoluting Law 16: Use Absence to Increase Honor. While you may like to quote this, and it is effective when it's use is calculated, the fact is you have no choice in the matter so you're turning your necessity into a virtue. If you're still consistently too available to her over the distance (i.e. long phone calls, texts, IMs, emails) you only emphasize your clingy-ness more so than if she were living 5 minutes away.

I think this is your main issue. You worry she'll lose interest over the time you're playing LDR, and seeing and hearing about her past BFs is only exacerbating this because your inner AFC is telling you she'll hook up with a guy like them in the interim and/or you don't rate a girl this hot. Am I right?

Yeah, that's probably the law i was referring to. It's true what you write, but still I feel that our absence has strengthened and intensified our relationship, bond and emotions towards eachother. That might still have happened regardless though.. speculations.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. The next 3 months are critical. If she looses interest, she might not move here and we'll lose contact. Only times I ever feel insecure is when we are apart. She came here last night and we've had a perfect time so far. Not once did I think a negative thought about her, us or the relationship. Not even a thought about her past. I think some of your ideas helped, only not the ones asking me to give up on this girl because of age or any other circumstances. I feel ready to be in a commited relationship, even if it means risking heartbreak.

I DO feel worthy of beautiful girls. Even if they are in another league in the looksdepartement than me. Beauty is trivial and i attribute value to others (including girls) based on other criterias. Just for the record. I think the reason i reacted this way with her is that I managed to develop feelings again, something I haven't been able to for a very long time. I'm not a stone cold fish afterall

Alot of wisdom in this thread guys. I appreciate it.