Friend Zone Conversion help

[Juando]

Friday night my friend A is coming over for dinner. I have not seen her for weeks, maybe even longer, and I'm really looking forward to it. I was infatuated with her the moment I met her years ago and despite my frustrations with her over the years, nothing's changed as far as my chemical reaction to A.

There was a small window of opportunity to bang her once upon a time but I was just getting what turned out to be an LTR off the runway, so I blinked. And then I just salivated and pined for her from a distance.My LTR ended a year ago and I made moves towards reeling A in but now
she was in an LTR, one with some ambiguities to it, but solid enough for her that she politely but firmly put me off. So we've been in this friend zone and I'm not kidding myself about it but just for context, she's real comfy with me-
for example about six months ago she was at my place, got a long, sensuous massage from me, my hands all over her, even spent the night, but no action: all I got was blue balls. Her bf is younger than her 32 years and he sounds ok but a typical non-commital musician.

After a few of these blueball experiences I decided to next her and stop getting my hopes up.
So she calls me a few days ago- she's sad but nexted her bf after about 2 years, he won't commit, etc.
So here we go: we're getting together again, no LTRs for either of us, although her "availability" is very fresh. No problem with kino at all.
My gut tells me to get what I can- go for a fun night, proceed with escalating kino, make moves but be prepared in case our history and friend zone baggage ends up insurmountable.

I have been warned by dj wisdom about the difficulty of friend zone conversions, but I feel like I have nothing to risk, except another blueball gripe. At the moment I have about a half dozen plates spinning so I'm not out of whack about A.

But I'm putting this out to you guys because she's hot and I would love nothing better than to make the conversion. I'm thinking some kind of push-pull with her but honestly, it's hard for me not to lavish her with lots of attention and affection. Yes I'm working on eliminating my AFC stuff but it takes time and a situation like this one is a real challenge for me.

My fear is that I will make good progress with the kino but hit a roadblock at the kiss/makeout stage. Normally I would say (and I did say with her in the past) ok, game over at the kiss roadblock. But something tells me that in a case like this there is some special dj wisdom that could get me past initial resistance. That's where you guys come in.

Sorry for the verbosity. Any thoughts welcome.

 

[joekerr31]

you need to format your post. its just one run on blob with no paragraphs.

no one is going to read something that gives them a headache to look at.

 

[Juando]

Thanks Joekerr.

 

[joekerr31]

ok, much easier to read now.

heres your problem. you aren't officiallly 100% in the friends zone, despite what she may be saying. friends do not give each other long massages. im sorry, they just don't. if a woman values a friendship with a male and doesn't want to risk ruining it by sending him mixed signals, she is not going to let him run his paws all over her.

what you've got here is that you are her back up ego fix. when her bf isn't giving her the amount of attention she wants, isn't treating her like a porcelin princess, she supplements through you.

now you might be asking, 'well she doesnt have a bf now, so it should be smooth sailing.' the only problem though is that she likes having you as a her long term backup (LTB).

so for her, right now, the ideal scenario is for her to find another man, and keep you as the LTB.

now i've mentioned this before, and its counter intuitive, but id advise you to pay close attention. women with LTBs often keep them around for not just for in the moment ego gratification, but also as final option. what i mean by that is that all women are aware that there is a clock on life. and they all have an 'age' by which they consider the 'game' almost over (usually this hits around late 20s and early 30s). at this point they will settle down and have kids with the best available candidate AT THAT MOMENT.

trust me, when she starts to panick that she will never have kids or get married, that's when she will transition you from LTB to husband. haha.

but until then she's going to keep trying to find another man. she's probably telling herself 'ok, one more year of trying to find mr. right, then i'll give up and settle for J."

and here is the irony, if you try and push for more than 'friends', the reason she's going to blow you off is because she doesn't want to face the potential reality of hooking up with you, things not working out, and then she's left high and dry with no man and no LTB. she's 100% f*cked.

keeping you as her LTB gives her this sense of security, that if life doesn't work out the way she wants she can always escalate things with you.

now, whats the smartest thing you could do? SPIN MORE PLATES.

when she sees that you are not just sitting there happy to be her LTB, that you are not happy to be a kawk that she keeps in a glass case marked 'break in case of emergency', and that you are determined to go out and find yourself a woman, then she will get scared.

then her worst nightmare is coming true. her LTB is disappearing.

trust me, go on a few dates with other women, tell her about them, and within no time she's going to be looking to get in your pants. because if her choices are to lose her LTB altogether, or prematurely move her LTB to the primary man in her life, she will move you up to primary man.

but she is NOT going to do it as long as she perceives you as an AFC who is always going to be available whenever she decides to act on it.

so in conclusion

1) you are not REALLY in the friends zone
2) you are her LTB and that's not going to change
3) you are bordering on oneitis, which is the worst AFC affliction known to man (at least when you have oneitis for a woman who isn't treating you like a king)
4) whats funniest in this situation is that when she had a boyfriend odds are he was doing none of the things you were doing (ie. massages, listening to her talk, etc.) and he was getting the p*ssy every night. you were doing all the things women supposedly want and she won't spread her legs for you. so the question is: WHY ARE YOU DOING THESE THINGS when you are getting nothing in return?

anyway, the best thing you could do right now is date other women and let her know you are dating them.

nothing destroys your status as LTB quicker than a woman seeing that you with other women.

all that said, when you are truly in the lets just be friends (LJBF) zone, its almost impossible to get out. women dont LJBF men who they are physically attracted to. which is why i dont think you are in the LJBF zone myself, i think you are in what i'd call the LTB zone. if she wasn't physically attracted to you she wouldn't be letting you massage her.

all that said, it doesn't sound like she is that great of a catch to be honest. i mean, chics with LTBs rarely are. they see men as things to use, to appease their own needs, and really don't care much about the effects any selfish behavior they exhibit have on such men.

i mean, think about it, she's had a boyfriend and she's over at your place getting massages? does this really sound like a quality woman who you would be able to trust in the long run?

 

[Juando]

Wow. Thanks, a lot to chew on- your take on not really being in the friend
zone is right on...