How do you grant forgiveness to those who have misled, misguided and betrayed you? I feel like this is an important step for me. While I know we all have faults and limitations it is hard for me to forgive. I tend to carry grudges and I want to drop them.
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Forgiveness
- Thread starter Warrior74
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If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.
Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.
This will quickly drive all women away from you.
And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.
Greasy Pig
Master Don Juan
I dunno Warrior. I'm definitely one to hold a grudge but I draw a lot of inspiration from quotations.
My favourite is: It's easy to be bigger than small people.
I take that to mean just don't engage those who are out to hurt you. Just abide their bvllsht and rise above.
Another one is the parable about the Indian and the two wolves fighting inside himself. Look it up. I have it beside my desk at work and read it nearly every day. It helps.
My favourite is: It's easy to be bigger than small people.
I take that to mean just don't engage those who are out to hurt you. Just abide their bvllsht and rise above.
Another one is the parable about the Indian and the two wolves fighting inside himself. Look it up. I have it beside my desk at work and read it nearly every day. It helps.
I once read an "old Scottish saying" (can't confirm it really is) that taught me "Forgive your enemy, but remember the bastard's name."
Personally, I find that nothing and no-one can force you to interact with people who have caused you harm. The best way to "forgive", thus, is to put them out of your mind by not dealing with them. Unless you work with them... well... then I guess it's the same as for a No Contact: just have the absolute minimum of required interacting. You forgive by not thinking about them.
I have had immeasurable harm done emotionally by my then-girlfriend and a then-friend because they starting dilly-dallying behind my back while my mother was dying from cancer, then getting together the week after the funeral. Him and other people I considered "friends" sided with the girl... I wasn't right for at least a year, even though I cut all contacts to all of them immediately. Nowadays I feel a vague sense of "don't like that guy". I've forgiven them for their childish, egoistical actions, but that doesn't mean I can't remember their name and make sure I never grant them another moment of my time again.
Personally, I find that nothing and no-one can force you to interact with people who have caused you harm. The best way to "forgive", thus, is to put them out of your mind by not dealing with them. Unless you work with them... well... then I guess it's the same as for a No Contact: just have the absolute minimum of required interacting. You forgive by not thinking about them.
I have had immeasurable harm done emotionally by my then-girlfriend and a then-friend because they starting dilly-dallying behind my back while my mother was dying from cancer, then getting together the week after the funeral. Him and other people I considered "friends" sided with the girl... I wasn't right for at least a year, even though I cut all contacts to all of them immediately. Nowadays I feel a vague sense of "don't like that guy". I've forgiven them for their childish, egoistical actions, but that doesn't mean I can't remember their name and make sure I never grant them another moment of my time again.
Desdinova
Master Don Juan
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The only time I can forgive them is if they actually DO admit that they've fvcked up. If I forgive them without them realizing that they fvcked up, I'm basically telling them that it's okay to do it again and I'll continue to be the doormat they wipe their feet on.Warrior74 said:
If you feel that you need to "forgive and forget", then you should go back out with all the women you've dumped.
taiyuu_otoko
Master Don Juan
Forgiveness is absolutely and one hundred percent selfish. It does NOTHING for the other person, and does EVERYTHING for you. Don't misunderstand me. Being selfish is all you can do.
The minute you forgive somebody, you release any power they hold over you, and you will be free. You don't have to accept their behavior, you don't even have to ever see them again. But you'll never, ever be carrying around the need for ANOTHER PERSON to behave in a way that makes YOU feel better.
And to be sure, they never even have to KNOW you even forgave them. It's not your problem what they believe, know, think, feel or do.
Any time you place your emotional health in the hands of another, their thoughts, their behavior (or lack thereof) you are fvcked.
Anytime you place your emotional health ONLY in your hands, you are free.
The best quote EVER about forgiveness is this:
"Holding a grudge against someone is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies."
-Nelson Mandella
The minute you forgive somebody, you release any power they hold over you, and you will be free. You don't have to accept their behavior, you don't even have to ever see them again. But you'll never, ever be carrying around the need for ANOTHER PERSON to behave in a way that makes YOU feel better.
And to be sure, they never even have to KNOW you even forgave them. It's not your problem what they believe, know, think, feel or do.
Any time you place your emotional health in the hands of another, their thoughts, their behavior (or lack thereof) you are fvcked.
Anytime you place your emotional health ONLY in your hands, you are free.
The best quote EVER about forgiveness is this:
"Holding a grudge against someone is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies."
-Nelson Mandella
the need to forgive means you're hurt in some way and its not going away. Well, the way i look at it, this doesn't say a darn thing about the other person, only you.
Its simple, girls that i dont care or care little about can do the same mean thing to me as a girl that i may have oneitis for yet i don't feel the need to forgive them because it doesn't affect me, i really dont care and honestly don't even think of it as all that mean. I just brush it off like, what a weird b!tch and don't think about it anymore. But with others, I'll have this painful thought loop that never seems to end.. So if thats the case, it must be me, not them.
Bottom line, forget about forgiveness, its irrelevent. The better question is, why can one person affect me so much. Thats a tough nut to crack though.
Its simple, girls that i dont care or care little about can do the same mean thing to me as a girl that i may have oneitis for yet i don't feel the need to forgive them because it doesn't affect me, i really dont care and honestly don't even think of it as all that mean. I just brush it off like, what a weird b!tch and don't think about it anymore. But with others, I'll have this painful thought loop that never seems to end.. So if thats the case, it must be me, not them.
Bottom line, forget about forgiveness, its irrelevent. The better question is, why can one person affect me so much. Thats a tough nut to crack though.
A lot of great wisdom in this thread already. I have the same problem, though. It's tough to forgive when you feel you've been wronged. I have a huge amount of resentment toward my stbx (if anyone can tell from my recent posts) which I'm trying to let go of with only moderate success so far.
Maybe that's the key, though. Letting go rather than forgiving exactly. Like what's been said already, carrying around all this crap just hurts you. Eventually, you have to let of these things when you realize that you can't change the past and you can't change people.
Instead of embracing them in forgiveness, even in your mind, maybe it's better to enfold them in indifference.
Maybe that's the key, though. Letting go rather than forgiving exactly. Like what's been said already, carrying around all this crap just hurts you. Eventually, you have to let of these things when you realize that you can't change the past and you can't change people.
Instead of embracing them in forgiveness, even in your mind, maybe it's better to enfold them in indifference.
Scaramouche
Master Don Juan
Dear MDJ,
I forgive,but only after the mongrels are hung!
I forgive,but only after the mongrels are hung!
Because ultimately forgiveness is something that you give yourself, not the other person that hurt you. I think we get tripped up on it because we equate forgiveness with letting the other person off the hook or giving them a pass for behavior that is unacceptable, but that's not what forgiveness entails. Holding a grudge is like carrying a hot piece of coal in your hand and thinking that it's the other person that got burned. And I know it's hard when the other person hasn't made any amends or expressed any remorse for hurting you.Warrior74 said:
If you're hanging on to bitterness, anger and resentment, it's going to show, and you're going to drive good people away, people that will have your back and not treat you like the person that hurt you.
backbreaker
Master Don Juan
This is actually an extremely, extremely big deal in AA.
Most people think AA is about a group of guys that come together and talk about why they can't drink, and that's true, but this right here, talk to anyone who does or has done Aa.. this is the bread and butter right here. this is what keeps you clean. not the meetings.
so in lieu of that, let me break out my (virtual lol) big book and quote how it works
as corny as the **** above sounds, i promise you, it works. i've done it, i've done it with sponsees, i've seen friends do it it works if you take it seriously.
write down who it is that you are pissed off at, and write down as thoroughly as you can why you are mad and then take a step back to see if you had any part to play in it. If you did, own up to it. If you didn't, try to realize where that person is coming from and understand that that person, just like you and me and everyone else here is doing the best they can to live life the way they know how. that's all we can do at the end of the day.
Most people think AA is about a group of guys that come together and talk about why they can't drink, and that's true, but this right here, talk to anyone who does or has done Aa.. this is the bread and butter right here. this is what keeps you clean. not the meetings.
so in lieu of that, let me break out my (virtual lol) big book and quote how it works
now, this goes on further, and there are a few thigns here that from a personal standpoint I don't agree with.. AA has a problem where they make you the problem for everything, even when **** really isn't your fault.. i don't like that. however, this above, is golden.
as corny as the **** above sounds, i promise you, it works. i've done it, i've done it with sponsees, i've seen friends do it it works if you take it seriously.
write down who it is that you are pissed off at, and write down as thoroughly as you can why you are mad and then take a step back to see if you had any part to play in it. If you did, own up to it. If you didn't, try to realize where that person is coming from and understand that that person, just like you and me and everyone else here is doing the best they can to live life the way they know how. that's all we can do at the end of the day.
If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.
Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.
This will quickly drive all women away from you.
And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.
backbreaker
Master Don Juan
\Desdinova said:
I bet you haven't.
see i have you figured out. that's for another post however.
you're a real live peter keating
the irony of this site, is that the person that is a mod ont his site, needs the site worse anyone else on the forum. you really don;'t see it, but ti's clear as day. and i'm not about to tell you this beucase i hate you; just so you can see what's going on
you don't give a **** rather i stay or go in the sense that I'm not "sticking to" something. no you'd ont' give a **** about that. no, see like peter keating in the fountainhead, you are intimated by anyone who might be more talented/respected than you are, to the point where you throw passive aggressive jabs at people, delete posts of people who you don't like who respond after you and so on.
in fact, the fact that you are actually a mod on this site is one of the reasons why i never will be an everyday member of this site; my wife and child are in arizona visiting family and i'm bored, so i get on for a few days to kill time. but no, you have way too much invested here, you've built up this.. i don't even know what to call it, but you are petrified of anyone who who challenges you or calls you on your bull****. you've had it in for me ever since i called ou out in your thread where you acted like a douche by taking your GF to the same place that your ex was at. you didn't want to hear it then and you don't want to hear it now. \
I'm not trying to fight. i have a life outside of this forum, but from time to time i stop by and i like to think i bring pretty good information hen i do. but if you want to start some pissing match im' your huckleberry. i didn't say anything to you for you to throw that passive aggressive jab at me.
even now, i've been here so long, where you know i have a quick temper and you knew by taking that jab at me, i would respond like i am responding now, thus probably giving you a reason to ban me. the thing is, it's not that i don't know exactly what you are trying to do.. i told you this is my 6th sense, i get how people tick.. i just dont' give a ****. i can find something to. easily. i dont' care about being a member of this site to the point where i watch what i say beucase the mod might ban me. oh noes what am i gonna do lol?
lol you really don't see it. you, right here, your response tom e saying nothing to you, is a microcosm of what is wrong with this forum.. you and a few others, stopped actually giving a **** about the actual message of the forum, and became more interested in who the people that are being listened to are, and it's that, why i assure you, you neve rhave to worry about me being a day to day poster here again.. i get what's going on and i don't want to be a part of it. you'll derail a good thread with good advice just to get your point across. i don't want to be apart of that.
Scaramouche
Master Don Juan
Dear Three,
Silly Bvggers aren't they?......I find nothing to argue about with anything either of them say....Both have been doing a lot of growing...Come on fellahs,"He is below himself,who is not above an injury".
Silly Bvggers aren't they?......I find nothing to argue about with anything either of them say....Both have been doing a lot of growing...Come on fellahs,"He is below himself,who is not above an injury".
If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.
Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.
This will quickly drive all women away from you.
And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.
"You must forgive" is another sh1tfood for your brain in the degenerate empire. You're already physically and mentally castrated, now please, please don't do anything to the castrators. Please. Or we won't like you.
bluenorther
Senior Don Juan
"Living well is the best revenge" is advice that's always worked for me.
I was bitter and angry when my recentest ex pulled the plug on "us", for no real reason. I wished no pain on her, though-- she inflicted it on herself, actually. Three months later, she had a bad horse accident that put her out of commission for two months. That must have sent her over the edge because she turned completely against me later, and wound up costing me a good deal of business.
I work around a lot of people who are close to her, and I'll admit, the bitterness remains.
I saw her last week, in a gas station as I was leaving. Her face looked like she was still in pain. Me-- I was on my way to my next job.
I was bitter and angry when my recentest ex pulled the plug on "us", for no real reason. I wished no pain on her, though-- she inflicted it on herself, actually. Three months later, she had a bad horse accident that put her out of commission for two months. That must have sent her over the edge because she turned completely against me later, and wound up costing me a good deal of business.
I work around a lot of people who are close to her, and I'll admit, the bitterness remains.
I saw her last week, in a gas station as I was leaving. Her face looked like she was still in pain. Me-- I was on my way to my next job.
Boilermaker
Master Don Juan
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I have forgiven you for being the liar, conniver and attention wh0re that you are.backbreaker said:
Don't talk big if all you can be is a 5-year old who can hold his promises for 2 weeks, next time.
Boilermaker
Master Don Juan
- Joined
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I am in no position to give you "advice". But whenever I find myself holding a grudge against someone, deep down I trace it to a sense of insecurity, a sense... that reminds me how unfair they were; how much I gave them in return for their cruelty.Warrior74 said:
I want to think of it as not "forgiving" but "letting it go"... You may not forgive someone for what they did, but this can be a superficial, emotionless thought. I don't forgive my ex for all the things she did - it just means I won't date her again. That is a red line.
But now with the help of time and other factors, I am close to the absolute indifference state when I think about her being banged/choked to death/ or loved by someone. I managed to disconnect everything that relates to her from my emotional circuitry. But it doesn't mean I have forgiven her -- I think that difference needs to be recognized.
scrouds
Master Don Juan
Oh how to forgive? What a question. Forgiveness is not a function of them, its a function of you. Its your process of working towards peace about the situation that caused the pain. Time obviously helps immensely.Warrior74 said:
There are many ways to get there. They all boil down to acceptance. Acceptance of what happened. Maybe it was the situation. Maybe it was just the way they are, the type of person they are. Maybe it was something that you can improve on.
In the end though, I think you're over halfway there to forgiveness nirvana. You realize its not good for you. That releasing the hate would be good for you. Realizing that there's nothing you can do about the past helps. That you've removed the cancer from your life, that it cannot spread any more, that helps. Finding where you can improve yourself and doing it, that helps. Deep breathing and letting the anger slide off, that can help. It all adds up.
And the more you do it, the easier it becomes. But you become wiser as you go too. Looking out for things, this is the improvement part. I know this is all kind of disjointed. Its part of learning and growing. I remember when I used to get pissed off about flakes. Now, knowing there are hotter girls around the corner it just doesn't phase me. Last chick confirmed a date for the next day and an hour later flaked. I laughed, crazy chicks.
I still get pissed off, but only about things that matter. If its a girl, and she's gone it used to matter, doesn't any more. If you can use the situation to improve yourself, do it. You'll naturally get closure from the improvement. Anger can be converted into drive if its useful. Anything that helps.
----
Rereading this, I am reminded of a phrase from the religious side. Forgive her oh Lord, because she knows not what she does. That kind of thinking can go a long way as well. Many chicks don't know what they're really doing, they just go along with the emotional flow.