Forget about women, until you have frame.

[wifehunter]

Otherwise you're engaging in a nuclear war with a bb gun!

Work on that bulletproof frame*, and women will fall in love in 30 seconds flat.

*a foundation for framework, is essential! Once you have something to build on, you will be unstoppable!!!

 

[Serenity]

Forget about trying to accomplish anything, until you know how to accomplish it.

I have to talk against you here. None of the skilled guys became skilled before they dared to fail. You're just putting more pressure on guys who most likely already are scared to death of failing, so they'd much rather prefer the comfort of mentally masturbating themselves into eternal virginity.

You don't just get a frame out of almost nothing and then suddenly go from fapping to slaying pvssy overnight. Frame is built through mostly personal experience, both positive and negative. For any other skill nobody will doubt that practice is the most important part, but for this particular skill it seems some guys believe they can get away with thinking their way around it.

I guess a decent analogy would be chess, you cannot ever become even decent at it if you never play the game and risk losing.

 

[Urbanyst]

Disagree.

Maximize your VALUE to have the most options. THEN go out and gain experience.

You are giving women too much credit and value to say you actually have to "prepare" ahead of time to deal with them lol. Absurd.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

I take it that frame is having a self-determined proactive frame of mind... as opposed to a reactive one. One must surpass the facile ego, and go beyond the abstracted super-ego, to enter once again into the sphere of the fully-fledged psyche. Here logos recombines with eros [id] and we find ourselves as gods walking lightly on this earth...... Where was I?... oh yes, to forget about women IS frame. For the ego has been obliterated, and eros is thus liberated... though restrained and sublimated to the larger cosmic mystery that is life. The right kind of women will naturally gravitate to this frame.

 

[wifehunter]

I take it that frame is having a self-determined proactive frame of mind... as opposed to a reactive one. One must surpass the facile ego, and go beyond the abstracted super-ego, to enter once again into the sphere of the fully-fledged psyche. Here logos recombines with eros [id] and we find ourselves as gods walking lightly on this earth...... Where was I?... oh yes, to forget about women IS frame. For the ego has been obliterated, and eros is thus liberated... though restrained and sublimated to the larger cosmic mystery that is life. The right kind of women will naturally gravitate to this frame.

Most egos have unrealistic view of themselves...see: pride, arrogance, Satan

Without something to reinforce those qualities women are attracted to, we turn to jelly under stress. Then, women become unnattracted.

Women want a man who can weather storms in life, not turn into a wuss when bad sh!t happens.

Without this frame, we are wasting our time and ultimately dissapointing women. Then, they start looking elsewhere.

And, I can't blame them.

There are too many guys out there who try to project this frame, but theirs is really a house of cards.

This is precisely why women dish out sh!t tests.

To filter out the chodez!

This is really DJ bible stuff, just more depth... the DJ bible does not address the issue of 'foundation'.

The Rock...You have to have something solid to build the 'frame' onto. Otherwise, the storms in life will tear it down.

 

[TheGambino]

Most egos have unrealistic view of themselves...see: pride, arrogance, Satan

Without something to reinforce those qualities women are attracted to, we turn to jelly under stress. Then, women become unnattracted.

Women want a man who can weather storms in life, not turn into a wuss when bad sh!t happens.

Without this frame, we are wasting our time and ultimately dissapointing women. Then, they start looking elsewhere.

And, I can't blame them.

There are too many guys out there who try to project this frame, but theirs is really a house of cards.

This is precisely why women dish out sh!t tests.

To filter out the chodez!

This is really DJ bible stuff, just more depth... the DJ bible does not address the issue of 'foundation'.

The Rock...You have to have something solid to build the 'frame' onto. Otherwise, the storms in life will tear it down.

Sticky This.

 

[Serenity]

This is really DJ bible stuff, just more depth... the DJ bible does not address the issue of 'foundation'.

I'd say Pook addresses the foundation and is pretty fvcking in depth about it. Still though, no reason to postpone women. It's not impossible to think about these things while also going out to gain practical skills.

 

[fastlife]

@Grewd pretty much said what I logged in to say.

You don't wait to lift weights until you're strong enough to lift heavy. You don't wait to run a mile until you can run a marathon.

Results = Process x Time

And while much of life is cumulative--I.e. The skills & mindsets you develop in one field carry over into the next, there's also a level of specialization that can only be developed through direct exposure. For example, I was a pretty decent football player in HS; doesn't mean I could l've just stepped onto a rugby pitch & dominate. To think I could would be arrogant, considering there are people who've been practicing the nuances of that sport their whole lives.

There are plenty of men with bulletproof frames in the workplace & socially who are b1tches the minute they get around their post wall wives. Plenty of guys who can dominate a group of other men socially but can't approach the little 20 y/o hostess at a restaurant

The only way to develop frame around women is to lose frame around women. Rejection, failure, fvcking sh1t up with a girl you really liked, etc. is part of the process & while it's great to have protective measures to mitigate the worst possible outcomes, if those same mechanisms prevent you from actually playing the game you'll never get results.

Women will constantly reveal to you the areas where your frame is most weak. Repeat that 3x. And they will be far more ruthlessly honest with you than your ego ever could. If you're not getting that feedback & learning from it you're just mentally masturbating.

 

[wifehunter]

@Grewd pretty much said what I logged in to say.

You don't wait to lift weights until you're strong enough to lift heavy. You don't wait to run a mile until you can run a marathon.

Results = Process x Time

And while much of life is cumulative--I.e. The skills & mindsets you develop in one field carry over into the next, there's also a level of specialization that can only be developed through direct exposure. For example, I was a pretty decent football player in HS; doesn't mean I could l've just stepped onto a rugby pitch & dominate. To think I could would be arrogant, considering there are people who've been practicing the nuances of that sport their whole lives.

There are plenty of men with bulletproof frames in the workplace & socially who are b1tches the minute they get around their post wall wives. Plenty of guys who can dominate a group of other men socially but can't approach the little 20 y/o hostess at a restaurant

The only way to develop frame around women is to lose frame around women. Rejection, failure, fvcking sh1t up with a girl you really liked, etc. is part of the process & while it's great to have protective measures to mitigate the worst possible outcomes, if those same mechanisms prevent you from actually playing the game you'll never get results.

Women will constantly reveal to you the areas where your frame is most weak. Repeat that 3x. And they will be far more ruthlessly honest with you than your ego ever could. If you're not getting that feedback & learning from it you're just mentally masturbating.

I would not rely on women in this instance...

A basis of uncertainty, is what we are trying to avoid. Women will never give you a straight answer, or provide direct feedback. It's not in their nature. You will be guessing a lot of the time....and the smart ones will be laughing.

 

[fastlife]

I would not rely on women in this instance...

A basis of uncertainty, is what we are trying to avoid. Women will never give you a straight answer, or provide direct feedback. It's not in their nature. You will be guessing a lot of the time....and the smart ones will be laughing.

It'd only guesswork if you're talking to one or two girls and taking their verbal feedback literally. But chances are, for any given season of your life (or possibly the entirety of it), you consistently deal with one type of woman, your relationships consistently end (or fail to begin) in similar ways, and the only common denominator is YOU. That's the kind of feedback I'm talking about.

With enough volume over enough time you deal with the same issues over and over again until you resolve the underlying insecurity. The macro level of how women interact with you consistent & predictable--so if you go out this week and game 7 women, if one woman gives you sh1t about being a player then she might just be insecure; if 6 women give you sh1t then the problem is you. More specifically your frame, your behavior, your approach (calibration, in other words).

The good news is that you can alter input to effect different outputs. But you can't do this hypothetically; I can imagine all types of scenarios that should work and I can convince myself that I can get any girl I want and I can convince myself that it's an issue with women or the marketplace in general and I'm doing everything 'right.' But without tangible results and real world feedback your frame means absolutely nothing.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

This is just a question of working on inner game first or outer game. Which one you choose to do is dependent on your preference. The idea of ‘fake it till you make it’ is basically outer to inner. The slow & steady progress over time that is secure in itself is inner to outer. The thing is, inner game will begin to manifest itself as outer game sooner or later regardless of what you do. I find that the hottest/most popular women (9+) are able to read you better than other women (1 - 8) and those ones are so used to the fake alphas, ones who have only tried to work on the outer part but have no substance or foundation on the inside. That’s why you can see some smoking hot babes with average or even almost ugly guys. The only problem with inner to outer is that you need to make it a habit of actually talking to women once you have your inner game set or else the outer game will never develop.

 

[wifehunter]

It'd only guesswork if you're talking to one or two girls and taking their verbal feedback literally. But chances are, for any given season of your life (or possibly the entirety of it), you consistently deal with one type of woman, your relationships consistently end (or fail to begin) in similar ways, and the only common denominator is YOU. That's the kind of feedback I'm talking about.

With enough volume over enough time you deal with the same issues over and over again until you resolve the underlying insecurity. The macro level of how women interact with you consistent & predictable--so if you go out this week and game 7 women, if one woman gives you sh1t about being a player then she might just be insecure; if 6 women give you sh1t then the problem is you. More specifically your frame, your behavior, your approach (calibration, in other words).

The good news is that you can alter input to effect different outputs. But you can't do this hypothetically; I can imagine all types of scenarios that should work and I can convince myself that I can get any girl I want and I can convince myself that it's an issue with women or the marketplace in general and I'm doing everything 'right.' But without tangible results and real world feedback your frame means absolutely nothing.

The problem is ME then, cause most women give me sh!tz! lolz!

hmmm... tangible reality VS. the application of concepts, spiritual truths, and ideas.

If you only value what you can hold in your hand aka empirical evidence... you have a long road ahead.

 

[wifehunter]

This is just a question of working on inner game first or outer game. Which one you choose to do is dependent on your preference. The idea of ‘fake it till you make it’ is basically outer to inner. The slow & steady progress over time that is secure in itself is inner to outer. The thing is, inner game will begin to manifest itself as outer game sooner or later regardless of what you do. I find that the hottest/most popular women (9+) are able to read you better than other women (1 - 8) and those ones are so used to the fake alphas, ones who have only tried to work on the outer part but have no substance or foundation on the inside. That’s why you can see some smoking hot babes with average or even almost ugly guys. The only problem with inner to outer is that you need to make it a habit of actually talking to women once you have your inner game set or else the outer game will never develop.

 

[resilient]

Develop the frame, until then... IDGAF attitude will suffice.

 

[doctor1996]

@Grewd pretty much said what I logged in to say.

You don't wait to lift weights until you're strong enough to lift heavy. You don't wait to run a mile until you can run a marathon.

Results = Process x Time

And while much of life is cumulative--I.e. The skills & mindsets you develop in one field carry over into the next, there's also a level of specialization that can only be developed through direct exposure. For example, I was a pretty decent football player in HS; doesn't mean I could l've just stepped onto a rugby pitch & dominate. To think I could would be arrogant, considering there are people who've been practicing the nuances of that sport their whole lives.

There are plenty of men with bulletproof frames in the workplace & socially who are b1tches the minute they get around their post wall wives. Plenty of guys who can dominate a group of other men socially but can't approach the little 20 y/o hostess at a restaurant

The only way to develop frame around women is to lose frame around women. Rejection, failure, fvcking sh1t up with a girl you really liked, etc. is part of the process & while it's great to have protective measures to mitigate the worst possible outcomes, if those same mechanisms prevent you from actually playing the game you'll never get results.

Women will constantly reveal to you the areas where your frame is most weak. Repeat that 3x. And they will be far more ruthlessly honest with you than your ego ever could. If you're not getting that feedback & learning from it you're just mentally masturbating.

How do I ask for feedback If they stopped talking to me?

 

[ubercat]

Eloquently stated lads ..nicely done. You r as you train. Working consistently and effectively on any endeavour not only builds skills over time but also mental toughness. You are molding the clay of your being with willpower and habbit. Of course once you have the skills as reflex you can freestyle and have fun with it.

 

[fastlife]

How do I ask for feedback If they stopped talking to me?

That is the feedback. Behavior is more important than words and you'll probably never get a straight answer from them--and chances are they aren't even 100% sure why they stopped talking to you. For any one girl, don't worry about it too much--could be any number of reasons & it happens all the time. BUT, if it's a recurring issue take some time to look at each situation objectively and see if it's possible that you exhibited some type of behavior in each of these scenarios that could've resulted in that feedback. I.E., did you text them all the time, were you feeling good about yourself in the time you spent away from them, did you say anything that might've come across as inappropriate, etc. If so, cool, eliminate that behavior; if you can't find anything, remember it could be something totally outside of your control, but practice more self-awareness next time.

@wifehunter Straw man. Nowhere did I discount the importance of mindset and inner-game and, I think if you take the bulk of my contribution to this forum, you'd see that if anything I prioritize the inner over the outer. BUT to hold onto a set of beliefs while ignoring real world feedback is delusional. Literal definition delusional. The strength of one's frame is directly correlated to how well it fits real world application.

For instance, what does Harvey Weinstein have in common with the guy who buys girls flowers, never disagrees with them, and comforts her every time she gets pumped & dumped by her drug dealer boyfriends? Both of them have 'strong frames'; both of them believe that they are doing things the 'correct way' without taking feedback from the real world.

I feel like we've butted heads on this issue before, but I'll do it again--since I don't think you're doing yourself or any of the guys here any service by espousing these ideas: You can rationalize avoidance any way you want to; it's still avoidance.

 

[wifehunter]

How do I ask for feedback If they stopped talking to me?

precisely....we have to figure things out...chicks won't spell it out for us. And, they shouldn't HAVE to.

 

[wifehunter]

That is the feedback. Behavior is more important than words and you'll probably never get a straight answer from them--and chances are they aren't even 100% sure why they stopped talking to you. For any one girl, don't worry about it too much--could be any number of reasons & it happens all the time. BUT, if it's a recurring issue take some time to look at each situation objectively and see if it's possible that you exhibited some type of behavior in each of these scenarios that could've resulted in that feedback. I.E., did you text them all the time, were you feeling good about yourself in the time you spent away from them, did you say anything that might've come across as inappropriate, etc. If so, cool, eliminate that behavior; if you can't find anything, remember it could be something totally outside of your control, but practice more self-awareness next time.

@wifehunter Straw man. Nowhere did I discount the importance of mindset and inner-game and, I think if you take the bulk of my contribution to this forum, you'd see that if anything I prioritize the inner over the outer. BUT to hold onto a set of beliefs while ignoring real world feedback is delusional. Literal definition delusional. The strength of one's frame is directly correlated to how well it fits real world application.

For instance, what does Harvey Weinstein have in common with the guy who buys girls flowers, never disagrees with them, and comforts her every time she gets pumped & dumped by her drug dealer boyfriends? Both of them have 'strong frames'; both of them believe that they are doing things the 'correct way' without taking feedback from the real world.

I feel like we've butted heads on this issue before, but I'll do it again--since I don't think you're doing yourself or any of the guys here any service by espousing these ideas: You can rationalize avoidance any way you want to; it's still avoidance.

You are missing the point.

You can have the strongest frame in the history of mankind, but, if it's built on a foundation of jello...It's not worth much.

 

[ubercat]

Well if so I'm missing it too. All the guys are saying is have a balance.

Ok it's a bit different for me because I am in an ltr. And hopefully the young guys here noticed that most of the senior DJ's are in an ltr because they want to keep their overhead low or alternatively they have a good number of plates to choose from. In other words trust the process the process works

So last night I wasn't in the mood for company. It's week 2 of a new job and we re going through a restructure and as usual when people's jobs are on the line there's been even more politics than usual.

So I took my usual default action I held the line. Researched and bought a new tennis racquet online because I was tired of playing with the $30 Kmart one that I've had for the last 3 years. And then watched a movie while doing my kickboxing shadow routine I.e. 2 hours cardio. So I guess in a way you would say they are frame creating activities. In that I'm working on long-term goals, exercising my willpower and determinationand focusing on my own value. And of course those attitudes will carry over into my interactions with women.

However also this weekend I have two catch ups with friends organised and am attending a badminton Meetup which I am semi-regular at and will of course chat to all the ladies there.

I would argue that at any stage of life and love life that you should have both. Too much socializing can make you shallow and Directionless. Too much alone time can make you rigid and socially uncalibrated.