For the first time I actually felt sorry for a pretty girl..

[SteR]

I was at a party over the Christmas holidays and got talking to a girl who was in her early thirties. She was pleasant to talk to, had a very good job, her own place and had a lot of hobbies and yet I got the overwhelming sense that this woman was desperately trying to keep herself busy in order to avoid being alone. I actually felt a little sorry for her as it was clear she was probably quite attractive when she was younger, yet those days were clearly behind her now and it was clearly all going downhill from here.

Personally I've always felt at such a massive disadvantage while growing up, in comparison to attractive women of the same age I mean. It's like everything's been given to them on a plate.. they never have to put in any effort yet will have hordes of men chasing after their attention. We have to graft and graft and graft to get even a shred of the status that draws such attention. I've always felt there has to be some sort of equilibrium between the sexes ie. there must be a time when men have the advantage and I finally saw it.

What I grasped was that as we get older, we pretty much always have potential until we're well into old age, yet women don't have that luxury. No matter how hard they try, they cannot ever become as attractive as they were in their teens/twenties. Of course, they can improve but their best will always be behind them... yet men can theoretically remain attractive and keep improving their attractiveness until a far later date. Obviously I've heard this before but it never really clicked properly until just now.

I can't even begin to imagine how psychologically damaging it must be for a beautiful girl to hit the wall. I guess that's the drawback of being so attractive: The better they've had it, the more damaging the fall..

 

[CrimsonPanther]

look at it this way. they at least TASTED the good life. some men here were born in disadvantage. some were born average not much better either. some evolved, some didn't. but i would bet my car that very few if not none had the popularity and good life of a hot chick.
if she didn't capitalize on that high SMV period, it is her fault.

 

[backbreaker]

The older I Get the more I agree with the OP to a great extent. If you think about it, for all the *****ing that men do on this site about how women have it made, if you actually took a step back and thought about this for 1 minute, I wouldn't trade places with the prettiest of women in 2014.


Here are 2 very practical things you need to consider


1. Inflation. Not ***** inflation. Actual inflation. Inflation has rigged the game for women. Think about it. I live in LA. You live in LA you go to school, you wren't super duper smart so you get a student loan, it takes you 4 years to graduate and now you have 60k in student debt. Whereas 25 years ago that would have been 20k in student debt

On top of that, everyone you know has a bachelors degree so that's not good enough. You have to go to graduate school and pack on more debt.


AT that point, rather a woman goes to graduate school ro doesn't she's ****ed either way lol She's ****ed if she goes to school until she's 25-26 because she will be forced to work hours that are not conducive to dating and raising a family, but she needs the money.

IF she doesn't go to graduate school, now she has a regular 25k job with 60k in debt living in LA. Back to staying at home with mom and paying off bills plus no dude in his right mind is going to marry a chick with 50k in student loans. My friend in the other thread I'm getting so much heat on that's the sole reason she's not married; her BF won't propose to her until her student loans are paid off. She owes 25k.


So what's the alternative? Be stupid and dumb which is what you see a lot of today.

IN that sense the game is really rigged for women. The good ones, the ones that didn't' go to college just to drink and have sex, put their nose in books and then when they get out of college, they aren't 20 anymore. It's kinda ****ed up.

Saving up for a house, that that costs money and takes time. "Then by the time the dude who you've been with for 4 years is now 28 instead of 24 and now he has 21-22 year olds looking at him now you have to compete with that..



2. Women have the exact same problem AFC men have. They've been lead to believe lies.

While my mom was telling me to hold doors open, eat with my elbows off the table and to be a gentleman and women would swoon for me lol, women were telling their daughters that they could have it all. Don't make the same mistakes that we made, go live! Go to college. Don't settle for a man just because he has a steady job go look for love!

Now granted there are some women who are just.. ****s... for lack of the better word, but alot of women are not operating under the guise of being manipulative *****es or anything they are...


really, you get posts on this forum alot talking about "female AFCs" all the time and guys will say oh she's AFC over me.. really a female AFC is the above.. a woman who bought that you can have it all line, hook line and sinker. That's how male AFCs are made that's how women AFCs are made.


Then both of the women get to their 30's and then factors that wren't calculated for start to come into effect. No matter how much I stay in shape, no matter how educated I am, 22 year old women with perky tit's keep popping up. I want to put off kids until I'm 35 but my man wants kids and is going to leave me so he can find a woman with kids. Doesn't he understand that I can have it all? why doesn't he want me to have it all?


Life is like a roller coaster ride for men and women, we are all on the same roller coaster... better yet, it's a roller coaster that's in the dark, you don't know what turn is going to come, you don't know what is about to happen but men here, the red pill in general act like women have been on the roller coaster 10 times already and that they are using the roller coaster to manipulate us. At the end of the day we are all just as confused. Us just later than them.

Then the woman gets bitter about the age of 30.. no different than when men start to get bitter around the age of 22-24 when they realize just how stacked the deck is against them.


My wife has a female friend who is one of these woman. she's very pretty, she has a BF, she works very hard and is pretty smart. You talk to her she has her entire life mapped out. she's 27. she's saving to buy her first house now while trying to secure the raise at work working 45-50 hour work weeks, she will buy a house at the end of the year with her BF, then when she's 31-32 get married and have a baby when she's 35-36. And you get get mad at her and laugh at her when she hits the wall and none of that happens like she wants it to happen but how is that any different than women laughing at you when you were going months/ years without a date? It's not. Both of you are just realizing just how lied to you were by others.

This chicks doesn't understand her curves aren't going to be there like they are now in 7 years. She doesn't understand her BF is going to be wanted beyond belief in 7 years he's a good looking dude with his head on his shoulders . And she's not a prick she's not stupid she's not anything. she just believes she can have it all.


On the other hand, there are plenty of women who know what they do to men and abuse the **** out of their powers and those I feel no remorse for. One of the benefits I have being married to my wife is having all of her female friends over here all the time, and after half a decade of being with her and around them, I can tell you that most women really are just as confused as we are. The more you listen to them the more sympathy you have for them. We have different problems but we both have problems. most women in their 20's believe that they can have it all all the time just like most men in their 20's seem to believe that they will never ever get laid. Its subjective short term thinking by both parties.



I mean in the grand scheme of things, it may suck getting used and going sexless in your early 20's,b ut that's a problem that pales in coma prison to having to 1. get educated 2. find a husband 3. pay off your debts 4. have a child all before 30. And if you don't do one of the 4, you've hit "the wall" or you're stupid or you have too much baggage.


On top of all that. If the above wasn't enough. There's NO room for error for women. Let's say you find a woman and she gets the fact that she needs to do her thing before she's 30 and she gets educated and has a job and has a kid at the right time.. what if she married the wrong guy? By wrong guy I don't mean she feel out of love I mean, he beats the **** out of her or something like that. OR he's a raging alcoholic. I mean, you can say tough ****, and that's pretty much what I would say but at the same time, I mean **** I got a second chance. I'm a drug addict lol. I cleaned my ass up and 8 years 11 months later no one is the wiser. ****, I not only got a second chance I started dating HOTTER women lol. I became more social, I got in the gym, I rededicated myself to my work, my life took off in the women department. Women don't' get that. I could lose everything I have tomorrow and while it would suck, I would be comforted by the fact that 5 even 10 years from now I'd be right back here if I work hard. If you made me Job in the bible and took my kid away from me and took my wife away from me and my money I have the ability to get it all back again.. I mean that in theory of course I could not replace my wife or my son but you get what I 'm saying.. women can't do that. You're done lol. You **** up and marry a guy that became an alcoholic at 24 and you are now 29 with a child and an EX game over thanks for playing get your door praise lol. Now you're just that annoying ***** on POF that is always showing her kid off lol. Then you got dudes, walking around here pissed off because a HB8 won't return his phone call. That's missing the forest between the trees. If you do your thing right you have the rest of your life to swing your **** everywhere lol. Most women have at most, a solid 15 year window for that and that's being generous.

 

[disgustipated]

Or, she gets child support with custody of the kid, maybe alimony too, in addition to her good paying job ....Ohh let's not forget she gets to date again.which most likely means her new bf showers her with gifts, dates, etc...as if she needs it. Does she get to have it all in.that scenario? No but its a sweet deal compared to the guy in that situation.

Same girl could marry young to a guy with a decent job , go to.school , stay faithful, get that job, get that house, have that baby instead of turning down decent dudes in her prime and riding diick after diick possibly turning off her future fiance , and on top of all that having the audacity to wonder why she can't snag the guys she really wants because her looks have faded. Puhlease, no sympathy. Well a smidge. They just have too many options to frankenstein together a workable solution.

Feminism has most my ire I suppose. I wish I bad access to women like my grandfather did. Grandma stayed at home most the marriage and raised 6 kids...cooked like a god. Not a fussy bone in her body.

 

[Blinkers]

I am at least 100% in agreement with disgustipated - Chicks abso-fvcking-lutely bring this sh1t on themselves…
Now I am in my early 30’s I am more attractive than ever to the girls my same age who are all “ready to settle” No surprise really as they know the wall takes no prisoners and shows no fvcking mercy! These same girls, I know have been jumping from one pogo stick to the next through their 20’s and always get their hamsters in a twist when I explain to them the following.

1) “When I was 20, you guys were ****ing 30 year olds, who do you think I’m ****ing now”
2) “A girl the same age as me who has never been in a LTR and spent the entire time not knowing what she wants, has very different morals to those I would be attracted to."

I am going to enjoy my 30’s – And like all of nature’s male species, we only act reactionary to female behaviour.

 

[zekko]

Same girl could marry young to a guy with a decent job , go to.school , stay faithful, get that job, get that house, have that baby instead of turning down decent dudes in her prime and riding diick after diick

I know a lot of girls who went the domestic route and turned down the riding diick after diick. Unfortunately a good many of them grew bored with their life, decided they didn't feel "fulfilled" and resented their husbands for it (Hey, it's always the man's fault, isn't it?), and got divorced. A home and family isn't enough for a lot of these modern women.

I suppose this goes back to believing the lie. They were told they would have everything and always be happy, and when life didn't turn out to be the bed of roses that they were promised, they blamed their husbands for failing to provide that. I don't know who it is that keeps telling the kids all this stuff, but IMO they need to tone it down a little.

 

[dasein]

Attractive woman comes out of college with debt, but she has a much cheaper social life at her disposal as a choice with minimal if any effort. Not so for most any similarly situated man with similar debt, no one carting him around and paying his gas, buying his food, tickets, booze, etc. So I don't see how women have it bad in that respect comparatively. The whole industrial, corporate, educational and bureaucratic/govt services worlds have been totally reengineered and restructured purely for women's comfort and advantage over the last decades, and much of this discriminatory accommodation is zero sum at male expense.

Due to technological advance, almost any trade is available to women today. We'll even lower the standards at ALL OUR EXPENSE just to make it so. Many trades literally beg women to come in the door, yet they do not. Women will work in a crappy desk job with the illusion of more status or comfort than a trade job that pays 3x as much. That's on THEM if they choose that way, no one else. Govt work is the easiest job with the best benefits, most comfortable conditions, highest pay relative to actual work accomplished, most female friendly... and a complete parasitic sop on the productive elements of society and the economy, an admission of personal ethical and life failure to boot IMO, yet women literally swarm into those jobs, clamor for more and more govt to create more similarly wasteful welfare/jobs almost totally displacing men. That's on them.

Moreover I think some forget the massive disproportionate treatment of women for 50 years where school admission slots, financial aid and workplace promotion and career advancement are concerned. Have experienced this my whole life as have friends. Standardized tests and education methods generally have been rigged in women's favor towards general comparative female strengths for decades as well. This is why so many women utterly fail at the real world once out of school, hard economic reality is not as accommodating of female strength; boring rote memorization and the ability to learn and recite rules without lots of concrete actual reasoning capacity will get you everywhere in most levels of education, even law and medicine, but nowhere in real accomplishment, understanding and particularly... innovation.

Feeling sorry for an attractive or previously attractive woman "just because life is tough" today is like feeling sorry for Richie Rich burning through a $100 mill inheritance or feeling sorry for a lottery winner who spent all their money on jewel encrusted house fixtures. Sorry? hell no, not any more than for anyone else.

 

[synergy1]

I feel there is some angst towards women who hit their wall on behalf of the men who also felt the pain of rejection in their early years. I even have a bit of this feeling towards those women. However one needs to understand perhaps circumstances played a role in where a certain women is today.

Lets face it, the cost of living is not cheap now. Everything has gone up in price, and salaries have gone down. This trend has been going on for longer than most of us have been alive. If you are an average women who wants to survive and help themselves, they are forced into spending their best years in college. Even the most enterprising women in fields like nursing must put in the time in school and doing practical experience. Its not easy.

Women are sometimes a victim of their own circumstances, but often have plenty of opportunity still. They chose to pass over men during these tough times because they feel their career in the long term is a better choice ( and maybe will help them meet better men). It won't.

Do I feel bad for these women who let their best years go behind them and are struggling in the dating world? Not one bit. No one ever offered my sympathy when times were tough for me, dating or otherwise. I used those tough times to build who I am and now enjoy a lofty ( and still increasing) position amongst women. The difference between men and women is that society initially gives men nothing. Women get their looks. Both sexes can chose a path based on what they are given, and their circumstances and achieve a desirable relationship if they chose. For men, their path will be based on hard work of some sort. Women's will be simply to chose. Women who do not chose are as guilty as men who do not work to achieve their position. No one feels sorry for lazy men.

 

[backbreaker]

I feel there is some angst towards women who hit their wall on behalf of the men who also felt the pain of rejection in their early years. I even have a bit of this feeling towards those women. However one needs to understand perhaps circumstances played a role in where a certain women is today.

Lets face it, the cost of living is not cheap now. Everything has gone up in price, and salaries have gone down. This trend has been going on for longer than most of us have been alive. If you are an average women who wants to survive and help themselves, they are forced into spending their best years in college. Even the most enterprising women in fields like nursing must put in the time in school and doing practical experience. Its not easy.

Women are sometimes a victim of their own circumstances, but often have plenty of opportunity still. They chose to pass over men during these tough times because they feel their career in the long term is a better choice ( and maybe will help them meet better men). It won't.

Do I feel bad for these women who let their best years go behind them and are struggling in the dating world? Not one bit. No one ever offered my sympathy when times were tough for me, dating or otherwise. I used those tough times to build who I am and now enjoy a lofty ( and still increasing) position amongst women. The difference between men and women is that society initially gives men nothing. Women get their looks. Both sexes can chose a path based on what they are given, and their circumstances and achieve a desirable relationship if they chose. For men, their path will be based on hard work of some sort. Women's will be simply to chose. Women who do not chose are as guilty as men who do not work to achieve their position. No one feels sorry for lazy men.

I agree with this for the most part however there is one thing

let's take your lazy 30 year old man. He's 30 years old and he realizes that being lazy and complaining all the time is not going to get him anywhere. While not common, that 30 year old man can turn his life around, get a degree, or just become not lazy, hit some books, hit the gym and in a few years, or even less, start to live a more ideal life. The lazy 30 year old man can become the focused and driven 35 year old man and no one would be the wiser.


But the woman who hits 30 and finally comes to these realizations..there's not a god damn thing she can do about it lol. Dating wise that is. She doesn't get to go back and redo her mistakes of her 20's whereas men for the most part, can.. they'd be behind the 8 ball a little but once they are in a better position they can date who they damn well please for the most part.


As you stated, there are women however, who know damn well the power they hold over men and I have no remorse for these women at all. The woman who dumped me because a sign from god told her to lol (seriously), I'm laughing at her right now as she's 32 and single. The girl that i dated that got gangbanged at a party and blamed it on me for not being thuggish enough, I'm laughing my ass off at her now with her 2 kids and single. The girl who I dated that worked with me that broke up with me and came to work everyday telling everyone how great the sex was with her new BF just loud enough so I can hear it, I'm laughing now when I read her twitter complaining about how she can't find a good man who doesn't lie about who they are.


But that's not the vast majority of women.

 

[backbreaker]

Ironically enough, this thread shows better than any other example possible the problem with just "being a douche/jerk" to get women. It's a short term solution to a long term problem


What I mean is, it's like an ACT test question

a 24 year old girl is at the top of her game and at 34 she's on the decline

A 24 year old guy is at the bottom of his game and if he worked hard and took care of himself he will be in high demand when he's 34.


A 24 year old guy who is "fun" and becomes a jerk to get women will have success at 24 but what happens at 34?


The jerk ends up with the same problem as the woman who is 24 has. The traits that make him desirable at 24 actually work to his disadvantage at 34.. Being noncommittal, lack of true ambition, irresponsibility, lack of any real personality of his own because he never developed it, these are things that work hard against him at 34. Now, unlike women he can change this if he so chose and become a better person but again, he'd be behind the 8 ball.

 

[SteR]

let's take your lazy 30 year old man. He's 30 years old and he realizes that being lazy and complaining all the time is not going to get him anywhere. While not common, that 30 year old man can turn his life around, get a degree, or just become not lazy, hit some books, hit the gym and in a few years, or even less, start to live a more ideal life. The lazy 30 year old man can become the focused and driven 35 year old man and no one would be the wiser.


But the woman who hits 30 and finally comes to these realizations..there's not a god damn thing she can do about it lol. Dating wise that is. She doesn't get to go back and redo her mistakes of her 20's whereas men for the most part, can.. they'd be behind the 8 ball a little but once they are in a better position they can date who they damn well please for the most part.

That's the critical point that I'm trying to emphasise: It's the idea that no matter what they do after 'the wall', they can never be as attractive to the opposite sex as they once where. It doesn't matter if they become highly successful in their job and filthy rich.. it won't get them back the sexual appeal that they lost.

On the other hand, as BB mentioned above, no matter how crappy a man's life may be, the potential is always there for him to seize the reins and turn it around and still become attractive to the opposite sex, despite his age (assuming he's not like 80+).

I concur with a lot of the guys who have no sympathy for the girls who've ridden the **** carousel for their entire lives and then desperately struggle to find a good man while they have their looks.. but I do feel sorry for the girls who haven't done this and have been unable to catch a great guy before their looks have started to fade - it must be a very unpleasant idea to face up to.

I have to admit that turning 30 and always having felt I've been losing in the battle of the sexes, it's nice to finally start seeing some justice dealt out to some of the unpleasant women from my past, ha.

 

[synergy1]

The jerk ends up with the same problem as the woman who is 24 has. The traits that make him desirable at 24 actually work to his disadvantage at 34.. Being noncommittal, lack of true ambition, irresponsibility, lack of any real personality of his own because he never developed it, these are things that work hard against him at 34. Now, unlike women he can change this if he so chose and become a better person but again, he'd be behind the 8 ball.

Regarding your last post, I would certainly agree with it and would have expounded my original post to mention that. In fact, its rather a crucial difference as you pointed out even if the odds of the average 30 year old having this type of turnaround is slim/none. Simply having the choice is infinity more powerful than having to make due like most of the "post wall" women have.

The other factor one has to consider about men and women post 30 is eluded to in the post I just quoted and that is the following: Most men or women are unwilling or incapable of changing who they are at this stage. All the ideologies that got them to where they are difficult to meld at this point...our ego is far to invested into them to let them go. For men, it would be the general non-commital buffonery that defines their attitude. For women, its the classic wolf in sheeps clothing...the type who can't get that 8 anymore but still feels entitled too. These negative personality traits are befitting once karma comes around and gives these people who they deserved.

 

[Night-hawk]

Some great reads in this thread.

 

[_sideways_]

There are ugly girls who never had that lifestyle and developed a great personality. Then if they work out a little they can be happy and healthy with their afc husband. And wouldn't complain because they played their cards right....not the hot gurl cards. It's all relative. But yea I'm glad I don't have to hit that wall....but its all about fitness. She's not gonna be her firmest, but neither are we. Just work out and eat right.