"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

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First date review and question

thejollywag

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I went out with a girl whom had reached out to be me first on a free dating site. She was cute enough in her pictures, but she was even better looking in person. Anyway, most of my "meet-and-greet" dates tend to last an hour or 1.5 hours, and this date lasted for about four hours, which was probably about two hours long for me. She smiled and laughed a lot and 100% monopolized the conversation, although her running monologue suggested that she was aware she was hogging the conversation. Whatever, less work for me. Anyway, she's not a long-term prospect at all, but she was smart (and cute, like I said), and I'd see her again.

Anyway, she was on this site "for new friends," according to her profile, but at several points throughout the conversation, she used the word "date," as in "I can't believe I'm talking about this on a first date." At the end of the date, I said something stupid like, "Well, if you ever want to get drunk, let me know," and she said, "I have to get to know you first," and something about her turn to play 20 questions. I kissed her on the cheek, told her it was nice meeting you, and left. About 30 minutes after the date had ended she sent me a text thanking me for buying her drinks, because she couldn't remember if she had thanked me since she was talking about herself the whole time. I sent her one back, saying it was a pleasure and I hoped we'd meet again. She quickly responded "Absolutely, bla bla, I'm impressed and intimidated that you were able to keep up and stay step ahead. bla bla You're pretty awesome."

What do you think? If I take her out again, I'll go for the lip kiss, but based on this summary, is the "new friends" thing just female bullsh*t?
 

"She Liked You in March. It's October Now."

Attraction runs on a clock.

She flirted for weeks. Touched your arm. Found reasons to be alone with you. And you were careful. Respectful. Waiting for the right moment.

The moment had a shelf life. It expired around month two, and by the time you asked her out, she'd quietly filed you under "little brother."

One of the hardest lessons inside the 22 Rules: women rarely wait. Interest either grows or it decays, and nothing decays it faster than a man who never moves.

Make the move while she's still inventing reasons to be near you.

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Scars

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How did you go four hours without kissing her? You at least initiated some kino right?

She seems pretty interested though. So a future meet up can happen. Just don't be pushy about it.

How old are you btw?
 

Iceberg

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thejollywag said:
What do you think? If I take her out again, I'll go for the lip kiss, but based on this summary, is the "new friends" thing just female bullsh*t?

Yes. Ignore her words. Follow her actions.
 

Chamber36

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I think you played your cards right. I'd make the second date another 4 hours and see if you can end up in bed with her by the end of that night.

I don't think u have to kiss on the first date though, it might keep the sexual tension high on the second date. Women might even respect you for it, think you are a gentleman, and want to fvck you more for it.
 

Robert28

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i've had dates like this, except at the end i kissed the girl...and i don't mean a peck on the cheek or a quick goodbye kiss. don't get your hopes up about another date my friend. these online broads ALL act like they have just the best ol' time and love to go on about how much more wonderful you are compared to "other guys she's been out with", but here's the kicker....you'll here from her one more time(you have to initiate the contact though) and then that will be it. youll wonder why she blew you off after such a "wonderful date" and keep saying to yourself "but she kissed me, she said i was cool, the best, Mr. Perfect, blah blah blah". yet tomorrow or a couple days after you will get blown off, the cold shoulder, some excuse about "how she isnt sure about how she feels", or how during the date you had her all hot and bothered and now after a day or so she only sees you as a friend and thinks that would be best. and trust me, when she lays the friend thing on you, dont take it to heart. she means she wants you as that friend she never sees again. like i said earlier, dont get your hopes up. she'll be back on that site looking for the next free meal and drinks before your head can spin and youll just be the guy she talks about to her next date.

now you know why i hate women.
 

"Stop Asking Your Friends What to Text Her"

Your buddy Dave has been single for three years and thinks "hey u up" is a valid strategy. Your other buddy Mike just got dumped and told you to "just be yourself."

You showed them her text. You asked them to decode the emoji. You drafted four responses and sent the screenshot to the group chat for a vote.

She's been waiting forty minutes.

Put the phone down. Stop crowdsourcing your love life. Type something that sounds like you. Hit send. Then go do literally anything else with your evening.

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pdx1138

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I can relate to what Robert is saying, had that happen a lot with the online dating....the biggest problem is they have many many options of guys that bomb them with emails every day.

What if it were reversed? You'd probably blow off a lot of the mediocre looking women in favor of the hotter ones.
 

Johnnyventana

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On a more positive note, it went fine. And yes, it was a date. She likely uses the 'looking for friends" thing to a. not appear desperate, and b. so she can ljbf the guys she doesn't like. Make sure you keep that kino going and for sure kiss close as in make out.
 

Robert28

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Johnnyventana said:
On a more positive note, it went fine. And yes, it was a date. She likely uses the 'looking for friends" thing to a. not appear desperate, and b. so she can ljbf the guys she doesn't like. Make sure you keep that kino going and for sure kiss close as in make out.

been there, done that, have a couple of t-shirts. it doesnt matter when it comes to online dating. i would guess that 10% of all online first dates lead to a second one and 5 % lead to a relationship.
 

pinhas

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Im guessing the site was OKC, and this "just friends" is pure BS. No one and I repeat NO ONE goes online to find new friends; it may happen organically, but everyone's reason for joining dating sites is.... DATING.

Some girls dont want to seem "easy" or "desperate", and that an easy way for them to rationalize them joining the site.

Judge girls by their actions not words!!!!!!!! I cant stress this enough!!!!!!!!

She reached out, went out with you, spent 4 hours with you, texted you after the date and you still believe she only wants new friends?!?

DUDE, wake up and go ravage her!

Good luck
 

Robert28

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pinhas said:
Im guessing the site was OKC, and this "just friends" is pure BS. No one and I repeat NO ONE goes online to find new friends; it may happen organically, but everyone's reason for joining dating sites is.... DATING.

Some girls dont want to seem "easy" or "desperate", and that an easy way for them to rationalize them joining the site.

Judge girls by their actions not words!!!!!!!! I cant stress this enough!!!!!!!!

She reached out, went out with you, spent 4 hours with you, texted you after the date and you still believe she only wants new friends?!?

DUDE, wake up and go ravage her!

Good luck
my all-time favorite are the dumb hoe's who will tell you "i just started dating someone but couldn't delete my profile because i have made alot of friends on here and want to keep in touch". i acctually had a girl tell me this on our first date, we'd ordered food but it hadn't come yet. i thought to myself "there's no way in hell i'm paying for this slut to eat and i know she wont split the check with me." so i said excuse me, i'm going to the bathroom to fix my contacts, be right back. walked right out the door, to my truck and ignored every text and call she sent me after that. who the fvck does she think she is telling me she just started dating someone yet agreed to go out with me...not only that but wait til we're on the "date" to mention it. the wh0re got exactly what she deserved.
 

“The 22 Rules That Flip the Script With Women… And How You Can Use Them Tonight”

Most guys accidentally kill attraction before they even speak. They assume they need a bigger bank account, a better physique, or smoother lines. They miss the point.

Female desire operates on a specific set of psychological triggers.  Break them, and you're invisible. Follow them, and you become magnetic.

I learned this the hard way. Years of freezing up. Getting friend-zoned. Watching other guys walk away with the girl I wanted. Then I discovered a set of 22 simple rules that rewired my entire approach.

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Iceberg

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Robert28 said:
my all-time favorite are the dumb hoe's who will tell you "i just started dating someone but couldn't delete my profile because i have made alot of friends on here and want to keep in touch". i acctually had a girl tell me this on our first date, we'd ordered food but it hadn't come yet. i thought to myself "there's no way in hell i'm paying for this slut to eat and i know she wont split the check with me." so i said excuse me, i'm going to the bathroom to fix my contacts, be right back. walked right out the door, to my truck and ignored every text and call she sent me after that. who the fvck does she think she is telling me she just started dating someone yet agreed to go out with me...not only that but wait til we're on the "date" to mention it. the wh0re got exactly what she deserved.
Ha. That's awesome.

I'm looking forward to the day when a girl gives me the opportunity to straightup leave her in a restaurant.
 

pinhas

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Robert28 said:
my all-time favorite are the dumb hoe's who will tell you "i just started dating someone but couldn't delete my profile because i have made alot of friends on here and want to keep in touch". i acctually had a girl tell me this on our first date, we'd ordered food but it hadn't come yet. i thought to myself "there's no way in hell i'm paying for this slut to eat and i know she wont split the check with me." so i said excuse me, i'm going to the bathroom to fix my contacts, be right back. walked right out the door, to my truck and ignored every text and call she sent me after that. who the fvck does she think she is telling me she just started dating someone yet agreed to go out with me...not only that but wait til we're on the "date" to mention it. the wh0re got exactly what she deserved.
Yeah ive seen a few of those. You did the right thing dude; these girls think they are hot **** becuase they have a vagina. And its becuase of the majority of the guy's population who stand for this and let them behave this way in hopes of getting in their pants.
 

pdx1138

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Robert28 said:
i would guess that 10% of all online first dates lead to a second one and 5 % lead to a relationship.
you guessed right.
 

LE6END

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Robert28 said:
my all-time favorite are the dumb hoe's who will tell you "i just started dating someone but couldn't delete my profile because i have made alot of friends on here and want to keep in touch". i acctually had a girl tell me this on our first date, we'd ordered food but it hadn't come yet. i thought to myself "there's no way in hell i'm paying for this slut to eat and i know she wont split the check with me." so i said excuse me, i'm going to the bathroom to fix my contacts, be right back. walked right out the door, to my truck and ignored every text and call she sent me after that. who the fvck does she think she is telling me she just started dating someone yet agreed to go out with me...not only that but wait til we're on the "date" to mention it. the wh0re got exactly what she deserved.
^ This man is the truth.

I'm completely amazed at the nerve of your date.. Simply perplexed; What convinced her telling you she had someone wouldn't affect the date in any form? It's either she harbored a low-IQ, or was incredibly smart to try and phish a free meal out of you.
 

PrettyBoyAJ

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This is what I do if I don't house close on a date.

Just say bye and give her a hug. She should be saying stuff like thanks for the food or she had a great time. After the hug look her in the eyes and kiss. Guranteed kiss. If she doesn't kiss you then next her.

Simple as that. If she doesn't kiss you she isn't feeling you like that.
 

"She Wants a Man, Not a Boy"

You asked her if she wanted to grab coffee. Then you asked if the time worked. Then you asked if the place was okay. Then you asked if she'd prefer tea.

Four questions. Four chances for her to say no. Four signals that you're terrified of making a decision.

Plan it. Pick the place. Pick the time. Tell her where to meet you. She'll either show up or she won't.

Either way, you look like a man instead of a scared little boy.

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thejollywag

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Just an update. She did contact me again with a specific date suggestion in mind. We'll go out during the week, and I'll go for a real kiss. I generally attempt a lip kiss in the first 20 minutes of the second date, so it shouldn't be a long date if she's uninterested.
 

Robert28

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thejollywag said:
Just an update. She did contact me again with a specific date suggestion in mind. We'll go out during the week, and I'll go for a real kiss. I generally attempt a lip kiss in the first 20 minutes of the second date, so it shouldn't be a long date if she's uninterested.

don't PLAN on kissing her. that's the worst thing you can do, it'll screw up your whole night because youre mind will be all over the place...."should i go for it now? did she just give me a signal? what happens if i get shot down?". you just gotta let it happen. if you're on the date and you think she's feeling you, or maybe you aren't sure but you don't THINK she's un-interested in you, then go for it. i can almost promise that if you think about it or plan to kiss her, you're going to drive yourself crazy all week and be off your game come date time. even on those two dates i went on recently that turned out to be a waste of my time, i went for the kiss at the end and i hadn't even thought about it until i did it. i will also say that just because she kisses you doesn't mean she's interested. lately it seems chicks will kiss any d@mn thing, interested or not.
 
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