Field Report: Internet HB #3.

[ZeeOwl]

Background on me (see my 1st field report):
http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38382
Nothing earth-shattering to tell here. I'm doing it for the benefit of the newbies, to give an idea of how internet dating goes, and also to get constructive criticism on what I did (or failed to do ).

Background on her (from her profile):
6...7 (seems relatively cute, though the photo is small and a bit fuzzy).
47, 1m60 (5'3"), slim, average looks, non-smoker.
1 child.
Looking for a boyfriend.
Bachelor's degree, self-employed.

Initial contact
September 15th
I sent her a Krynnster style eMail (plays on originality and mystery) which is the approach I use most often. It also includes an element of telling the woman that she needs to respond (to satisfy her curiosity). It's effective on women who are looking for stimulating company, or a STR/LTR, but don't have an "attitude". I also headline it with "Do not open before tomorrow's date..." just to see what she'll do.

She congratulates me on my style, and says that I should write screenplays. Also that she opened the gift before midnight, because she couldn't wait.

September 16th
I thank her. But tell her I'll have to punish her for opening my letter too soon, so I'm only going to answer her properly tomorrow.

September 17th
She writes again saying that she can't wait to find out what the punishment will be.

I tell her nothing extraordinary, just making her wait an extra day for a response. Though if she continues to be disobedient, I'll have to spank her. Then I tell her that I do write screenplays, as a hobby. Say a bit about the one I'm currently working on. Then invite her to tell me more about herself.

September 18th
She mentions that she paints as a hobby. She works as a makeup artist for movies. So she has an unusual lifestyle. Say's she'll be quite busy because of her work until the end of September, but thinks we should talk on the phone soon.

September 19th (Friday)
I mention my great interest in her line of work, as I'm a movie buff. I talk a bit more about my current project. I mention that I like paintings, and just bought one. I agree that talking on the phone is a good idea. I tell her to give me her number, with the best times to call.

She gives me her number. Mentions that she'll be working most of the weekend, but to try anyways.

September 20th (Saturday)
I mention that I was in Montreal yesterday (she lives near Montreal), and will probably be back Wednesday.

Taking it to the phone level (sort of...)
September 21st (Sunday)
She eMails me mentioning that I didn't tell her what I do for a living. Say's she'll be working nights starting tomorrow until the 28th. Say's to try calling her whenever it suits me.

I call, but get her voicemail. I leave a message (in case she has caller ID) saying I'll try again some other time.

September 22nd (Monday)
I eMail her saying that my work is too difficult to describe in an eMail. I'll tell her about it when we meet {mystery, incentive}. Say that her new schedule complicates things. Ask what time is best to call, since I don't want to do it during her "night".

September 23rd (Tuesday)
She eMails me when she gets in from work. Begs for a clue to what I do. Says that the film she's on will be done shooting September 29th. Gives me the best times to call her.

I eMail her back. C&F twist a comment in her previous eMail and accuse her of an obvious seduction ploy. I refuse to give her any clues about my job. Tell her we'll discuss my job in person, and that I'll call her this afternoon.

I call her that afternoon. She tells me that her schedule is unpredictable this week. But that she'd like to meet tomorrow if her work allows it. I tell her I'll call her back tomorrow afternoon to see if she's home.

September 24th (Wednesday)
I call her, she's not home, get her voicemail. Leave a message saying to call me if she get's home before 5PM. After that I'll be leaving Montreal.

September 28th (Sunday)
I waited a few days to call again (don't want to come across as too eager or desperate). I tell her I'm going to be in Montreal this Wednesday. We chatted a bit about her work. Then we made arrangements for a coffee date Wednesday at 4PM. She seemed in a hurry to get off the phone (she was on her cellphone, some plans charge per minute and are expensive, I assumed that was the reason), so I ran DD's LJBF routine on her but not the anti-flake. Her IL seemed very high, so I thought flaking was unlikely.
Time: About 10 minutes.

 

[ZeeOwl]

Date #1.

October 1st (Wednesday)
I got there about 10 minutes early. Took care of a few work related calls in my car before getting out. Just as I finish the last one, my cell rings with her number displayed. But she hung up after the 1st ring so I didn't have time to answer. It was 4:01PM. This girl is anxious! lol I walk into the coffee shop and spot her. Now I got a superb bit of kino in. The best I've ever pulled off I think. It was almost weird. As I walk up to her, and go in for the usual hug and two kisses, instead of putting my arms around her, which is what I usually do, with my hands on her back; my hands go to her waist/hips, and I give her a firm and warm squeeze with both hands while doing the cheek kisses. I have no idea why I did that, I was on auto-pilot. It was the way she was standing that kind of invited it; it just felt right. Maybe I was picking up some high IL vibes? Anyways, she looks older than on her pic (it's fuzzy, so can't see facial feature details, which makes her look younger). She really looks 47, but is still reasonably pretty and very well proportioned. I'd give her a 6.5 overall.

I sit down and we place our order. We started talking about her work first. It's a field that I'm fascinated by, so it was really easy for me to get her talking about it and seem interested! lol She gets to do a lot of unusual stuff, and lots of travelling too. I kept my body language laid-back though, and avoided leaning into her unless she was saying something very interesting. I noticed quite quickly that she's a bit of a motor-mouth. It was nearly impossible to get her to shut up. Not that she was boring, quite the contrary. It's just that it made mirroring her values back very difficult, as I couldn't get a word in edgewise. But I also noticed that she's a good listener. When she asked about me, even though I was quite elaborate with some answers (especially my involvement in making movies), she never interrupted and listened attentively. She came back with asking me about my work again several times, but I skirted around giving her an answer and kept changing the subject. Sometimes quite obviously. She caught on quickly, but let it slip a few times, as if she was enjoying the cat and mouse game I was playing with her. I gave her the info she was after near the end of the convo. So she's playful; nice quality. At one point she got me stuck in interview mode for about 5 minutes. I had trouble getting out of it; as soon as I'd finished an answer, she hit me with another question. I didn't have the impression this was a conscious tactic though, she was just fast.

She talked about her son and her ex. The latter sometimes negatively (yellow flag). Nothing specific, just her tone of voice which seemed resentful. And she also mentioned her feelings towards her ex's previous gf, which she didn't like, and who didn't get along with her son. She said she likes her ex's current gf much better. But she expressed some jealousy about her, mainly because she's much younger (I think she said she was around 25). So there was some obvious "older woman starting to feel old and inadequate competing with the young HBs" syndrome. Nothing alarming, just to keep in mind. Info that could be useful.

I got her talking about her painting a lot, and that she'd like to make a living from it some day. Got a nice connection with my moviemaking, even though it was really hard to participate in the convo once she got started.

About 50 minutes into the convo, I started thinking that it would be a good idea to get her outside. There was a park across the street, great opportunity to get some more kino in as she seemed quite receptive at the beginning. But it was so hard to get her to stop talking that it took another 10 minutes or so to squeeze my suggestion in. By then it was time for her to leave (she had to get home for when her son gets back from school) We headed for the cash register. I tried to use that opportunity to get a little kino in, but she moved too fast and I only got like a half second. Awkward moment at the register, with the "1 or 2 bills" scenario again. She was in front of me, and for a second I had the impression that she might want to pay for mine. But I wasn't sure, so I said "I'll pay for mine" to the cashier. I messed up the door opening opportunity completely.

Her body language during the convo had me really confused. On the one hand, she seemed really friendly and enjoying our chat, and was sitting in an open fashion facing me directly, with lots of EC. But most of the time, she kept her arms firmly crossed, except for a few minutes while she was explaining her painting to me, and was gesturing a lot. I figured out what was going on when we got outside. She was cold! lol It was just barely cool in the coffee shop, and she was drinking hot coffee. But she told me she gets cold really easily. Outside, she maintained a firm grip on herself and was actually shivering, even though it wasn't really cold. I cashed in on that in a flash by telling her that I have a high-energy metabolism, and I'm never cold. I'm actually a great heater. If I'd known her a little better I'd have put my arms around her, but at the time it seemed a bit overboard. I offered to walk her to her car. She has a Subaru Forester, so I mentioned that I'm a big-time Subaru fan, and have nearly always driven one. Don't know if that (cars) counts much in a female's mind, but it was a point in common, so I thought I might as well mention it. The parting hug was the best I've had so far in my 3 months of dating. She didn't seem really enthusiastic about, but it was still warm and she hugged back. A feeling I haven't had with the previous ones; they seemed much more neutral. She also said "We'll keep in touch" before I gave any indication of the sort, which was also a first. Actually, I didn't even acknowledge it, decided to keep it cool.

Time: 1 hour.

Conclusion: As with my 2 previous HBs, I think that her IL was higher at the beginning of the date than at the end. In this case, I would estimate that it went from 8 to 6. Of course, I don't expect to sweep all women of their feet, especially not with the little dating experience I have. It's just that this happened every time, so I can't help the feeling that I'm doing something consistently wrong. I just wish I knew what it was. I missed my opportunity to end the date first, because the convo was interesting and I forgot to check the time. And I got so wrapped up in the convo with her, that I forgot to fish for hints for a followup date. I can think of something on my own, but having gotten some help from her would make things less risky. I hate that moment at the register. Any suggestions on a smooth way to handle that bit would be appreciated. At her car, after the goodbye hug, she didn't seem in a hurry to leave, even though she needed to get home in time. I think this put's her IL at least at the "2nd date is likely" level, but I'm still unsure about reading IL. After I turned and walked away, I wish I'd had an opportunity to see what she did, but it was impossible without it being obvious that I was looking back, so I abstained. When I got to the street corner, her car was already gone, so she really was in a hurry. Any feedback on reading IL would be appreciated too, as that's my weak skill right now, along with kino. Explanations of the reasoning behind your conclusions are helpful of course. Feel free to ask for additional details if you need them.

I think she's a keeper. Interesting and classy lady, and I find her attractive. Now I have to think of a classy and interesting 2nd date idea, preferrably inside. Best idea I have so far is art museum or "vernissage"; inside, classy, appeals to her interest in art, and great opportunity for deep convo and kino. My impression is that I shouldn't wait too long to call her back, because that may cause her IL to drop more, since I think it's only about 6. What do you guy's think?

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Re: Date #1.

Originally posted by ZeeOwl
October 1st (Wednesday)...I think she's a keeper. Interesting and classy lady, and I find her attractive. Now I have to think of a classy and interesting 2nd date idea, preferrably inside. Best idea I have so far is art museum or "vernissage"; inside, classy, appeals to her interest in art, and great opportunity for deep convo and kino. My impression is that I shouldn't wait too long to call her back, because that may cause her IL to drop more, since I think it's only about 6. What do you guy's think?

I think you have the right idea about where to have your second meeting. An art museum is not a heavy date and it should interest her since she is an artist. You may also be correct in feeling that you will need to raise her interest level. The concern is how to do it without slipping into AFC mode.

Consider finding an art exhibit that will be in your area for a limited time. Call her to tell her about the exhibit and that you were interested in seeing and thought that she would enjoy your meeting you there. This way you won't seem TOO interested but enough to have consider her joining you.

 

[myfriendblu]

Re: Date #1.

double post. dam when is this forum gonna start moving faster/better!

 

[myfriendblu]

Re: Date #1.

Originally posted by ZeeOwl

Conclusion: As with my 2 previous HBs, I think that her IL was higher at the beginning of the date than at the end. In this case, I would estimate that it went from 8 to 6.

-----I would give the IL of this date about 5.5 Not bad at all. She seemed into you. Showed some good signs of IL.

And I got so wrapped up in the convo with her, that I forgot to fish for hints for a followup date. I can think of something on my own, but having gotten some help from her would make things less risky.

-----Near the end of your date, look down at your watch. Then go "Dam, I gotta split, work stuff, you know how that goes. I will call you either later today, or tomorrow and we can hook up again. Cool?" Then, you can pretty much immediately judge her final IL in you from her response and make up your mind if you wanna go for a second date. I would go out again with this chik. No big deal, go for the fun and practice, but she isn't a keeper.

I hate that moment at the register. Any suggestions on a smooth way to handle that bit would be appreciated.

-----LOL, believe it or not, I pay! I really do. after all, its only a 3-4 dollar coffe/drink thing. It makes you look decent, and it will keep IL from dropping. You don't want her to think your cheap. No biggie. Your going on, average, 2 coffee dates a week? Maybe three? its worth the 6 or 8 bucks a week.

-----Zee, learning to read and judge IL is probably the hardest thing to do as a DJ, yet, ironically, its also the most important. But once you get it down pat, it becomes second nature, like breathing. You don't even realize your doing it. Often, i will meet random people just out and about, at work, etc. When i recal them in my head, or run into them again, often i remember their IL in me, just like I remember their name or hair color. LOL. It becomes second nature once you get the hang of it. IL is a difficult beast to learn though. You just have to get a "feel" for it, and it only comes with experience. You start to get a "vibe" from them, based on posture, tone of voice, the way they talk, move, behave around you. Just all the little things that girls do. the way they ask you questions. or pay attention. Like i said, its more or less a "Vibe" that you LEARN to pick up threw countless dates. I believe your on the right track. After all, your new at this.

At her car, after the goodbye hug, she didn't seem in a hurry to leave, even though she needed to get home in time. I think this put's her IL at least at the "2nd date is likely" level, but I'm still unsure about reading IL. I think she's a keeper. Interesting and classy lady, and I find her attractive. Now I have to think of a classy and interesting 2nd date idea, preferrably inside. Best idea I have so far is art museum or "vernissage"; inside, classy, appeals to her interest in art, and great opportunity for deep convo and kino. My impression is that I shouldn't wait too long to call her back, because that may cause her IL to drop more, since I think it's only about 6. What do you guy's think?

-----I give her IL a 5.5 Enough to warrent a second date. Don't worry about the place. Your suggestions are fine. i would start with some kino on this date for sure, don't be afraid to be a bit aggressive. her responses will judge wether or not their will be a third date as well. Since you don't have anything on the back burner, go out for a second date with her.

 

[suavedave]

dude!

Dude!! Get good at live chicks and you won't need to use like 20 days to get a chick!!

 

[ZeeOwl]

Re: Date #1.

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia
Consider finding an art exhibit that will be in your area for a limited time. Call her to tell her about the exhibit and that you were interested in seeing and thought that she would enjoy your meeting you there. This way you won't seem TOO interested but enough to have consider her joining you.

Sounds like a good strategy. Thanks for the suggestion.

Originally posted by myfriendblu
I would give the IL of this date about 5.5 Not bad at all. She seemed into you. Showed some good signs of IL.

OK, good. Now what, according to you, did she do that showed good IL signs? That's (one of the things) I'm trying to get better at.

Near the end of your date, look down at your watch. Then go "Dam, I gotta split, work stuff, you know how that goes. I will call you either later today, or tomorrow and we can hook up again. Cool?" Then, you can pretty much immediately judge her final IL in you from her response and make up your mind if you wanna go for a second date. No big deal, go for the fun and practice, but she isn't a keeper.

That's what I usually do, except for the checking for final IL bit. The convo was so interesting that I forgot to check my watch. Why do you say she's not a keeper? Seem's like a classy and attractive lady to me...

LOL, believe it or not, I pay! I really do. after all, its only a 3-4 dollar coffe/drink thing. It makes you look decent, and it will keep IL from dropping. You don't want her to think your cheap. No biggie. Your going on, average, 2 coffee dates a week? Maybe three? its worth the 6 or 8 bucks a week.

Yeah, you're right. I just got caught up in the "paying for dates is AFC/makes you look too interested/puts you in courtship mode" rule. But I guess coffee and dinner are maybe two very different things, in the female psyche.

Originally posted by suavedave
Dude!! Get good at live chicks and you won't need to use like 20 days to get a chick!!

Actually, that was 15 days. Yeah, I'm a stickler for accuracy, I'm a programmer. lol And it would have been 8 if she hadn't gotten switched to working nights. I'm doing the boot camp, so eventually I'll get good at cold PUs. But I doubt, with my life situation (I'm rarely in places where there are women, except when clubbing) would give me better results that way than the internet approach. I didn't wait 15 days for this one woman. I'm meeting an average of 2 new ones a week. I have several in the works at the same time, at different stages. It's like pipelining in a microprocessor (now everyone will know I'm a geek). haha! But thanks for the concern.