Field Report - Date blunder?

[Panther]

Ok first field report this year (better than nothing)

Girl in my class gives me interest signals.
Its a damn big class so I never get to chat to her more than the occasional "hey, how u doing etc."

Rather than letting it die out, I send her an email, saying we should meet up for a coffee to discuss about the interviews we'll be having for summer work (plausible deniability). She accepts and seems excited about it (replying to my emails minutes after i send them) and gives me her number "in case I decide to change the plans the last moment". Generally seemed like a very high Interest Level

I go to place we would meet on time, she's waiting for me (arrived early?). Walking there, she was asking me lots of stuff about myself.
I buy her a coffee (yea yea, i know its not usually a good DJ tactic, but this certain girl is extremely down-to-earth, with no attitute whatsoever so I didnt think it'd hurt)
We mainly talk about interviews, plus a bit of stuff about ourselves. I give lots of strategically placed humour and good eye contact, but not particular flirting or kino (did not feel right at all with discussion revolving around interviews).

Walking her back, again she asked me stuff about me, my family etc.
Before we split ways, i told her i enjoyed it, and that we should hang out again sometime. She told me I have her number and email.

I'm thinking of asking her for dinner in few days, where I'll focus discussion on her, go C+F, do mirroring, eliciting values, and kino.
Then leaving dinner I'll hold her hand, and probably go for a cheek-kiss goodnight (or normal kiss if I get really good vibes)

Awaiting feedback

ThePanther

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I wouldn't do the dinner date just as yet, it's a bit too much too soon. However, another 'non-date' would do you wonders.

Follow the same formula that you did at your first meeting, it worked even with the minor mistake of telling her too much about yourself too soon. Buying her coffee is alright since it's just coffee and not something huge like dinner. A dinner date is fine for someone you are dating and not just seeing (there is a difference).

Do a few more 'non-stressful' get togethers. Find out more about her so you will have some information about her, she already has a ton about you. With this information you are able to find out if she is someone you TRULY want to spend time, not just someone who is willing to let you feed them for free.

 

[NatureGuy]

I have to disagree with Francisco on this
one. Dinner/lunch date sounds fine to me.
She obviously likes you, you're interested, it's a good way to get to know each other.
Casual, low to moderately priced place
should work out fine !

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by NatureGuy
I have to disagree with Francisco on this
one. Dinner/lunch date sounds fine to me.
She obviously likes you, you're interested, it's a good way to get to know each other.
Casual, low to moderately priced place
should work out fine !

So are you saying that Panther has a better chance of building an attraction by buying her dinner? And how about if he finds out that she's a flake? Can't any AFC pay for dinner? And what exactly does taking them to dinner add that's special? Can't any AFC take a woman to dinner?

I still can not understand why some guys will jump into the mode of doing things with a woman as if they are a couple without qualifying her first. It's probably the reason why so many guys end up with women with issues. They focus on her interest and forgo his needs until it's too late.

Women know enough to find out a lot about a guy up front to qualify them but guys forgo that just because she seems interested. On top of that, they fall into 'nice guy' mode by feeling that it is their job to take buy them dinner as a means of showing interest. Again, what makes dinner so special? Panther might as well take her to a movie too...

Panther, you did well with the coffee date. It won't hurt you to do something similar. Also consider the fact that most guys will jump right into asking for a dinner date, if you don't you will more than likely be more memorable to her. Who knows, she may even change pace and pursue you.

Be different, go against the norm, stand out from the rest, be a DJ.

 

[NatureGuy]

She seems real interested in him, so I don't think dinner or lunch is inappropriate
at all. It's a common first date, nothing
AFC about it at all - he can distinguish
himself in his conduct with her. Is it the money that concerns you?
Maybe our circumstances are different,
but I don't think 20 dollars is all that much, and it seems well worth it. Your approach sounds a bit too cautious, probably appropriate when you're sorting through all kinds of online contacts which I believe you know alot about.
Bottom line: Panther was inclined to do this and I agree with him.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by NatureGuy
... It's a common first date, nothing
AFC about it at all ...

Question:Is it not true that AFCs normally do what's 'common?' Also, how often do the common things work out in the long run?

Just something to consider...

 

[MisterAl]

It is not time for the dinner date yet. Plan another activity date for a weekday/weeknight. Keep it fun and cheap.

Use kino. Kiss her on the _lips_ at the end of the date. None of this "kiss on the cheek" stuff. If you run your fingers through her hair on the back of her scalp as you kiss her you will own her. Tell her goodnight and DO NOT set another date at that time.

Remember, you are trying to build up that feeling of fluttering butterflies in her stomach. That happens when she is unsure about your feelings toward her.

If she kisses you back when you kiss her and you do not feel her face sliding past your lips as she turns her cheek on you, call her in a couple days and set that dinner date if you want.

 

[Panther]

Update:

Well things started going downhill..

Called her today (maybe too early, as we went out 2 days ago)
She was asking me stuff about how i am, how the interview went etc.
I asked her what she's doing on Saturday night. She said she's having a college society dinner. I asked what about Sunday. Again she found some plausible activity she would be busy doing.

So back to the drawing board. Maybe it was a major mistake to go for a weekend thing.

You know, the silliness of the whole case: After learning all the bunch of DJ stuff, when I actually should have used them, I reverted to AFC mentality again. So hard to think DJ with all the phenylothelamine flowing in ur brain...

Anyway, what's done is done. Now what:

Just forget about the whole thing? Well, if she was not interested I would get the reply that... well... I did get.

But it could also mean one of other two things:
a) She didn't think it's time for weekend plans together
b) She was indeed busy (not unplausible). But she didn't hint me "Well, I'm free on Monday" for example.

Maybe i should try to be a bit aloof, confuse her, see her reaction?

Or I should give it one more try? Call her Tuesday, for example, and tell her I want to see her again, ask when she's free. If she gives some lame ass excuse, next!

ThePanther

 

[Disco]

I don't like to do the ok, how about Sunday then thing. Makes them think right then that you tons of free time. For example I asked a girl out for tonight, she said no but I'm free all weekend. I didn't ask her about either night. The conversation ended with her telling me where she's going to be Friday night and that she wants to give me a call so she can see me.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Panther
...You know, the silliness of the whole case: After learning all the bunch of DJ stuff, when I actually should have used them, I reverted to AFC mentality again. So hard to think DJ with all the phenylothelamine flowing in ur brain...

That's rough. It can be difficult to go with your gut feeling with what you should do when you have had a pattern of doing things like everyone else and having AFCs telling you that it's alright. Whatever you do you have to keep it in your mind that it is YOUR decision about how you handle the situation. Use this experience as a learning tool.

Going forward, I suggest putting her on the back burner. Not to say that you should NEXT her, just move her down a few spots in your list of possibilities. You do have several possibilities, don't you?

Here's a bit of advice. Talk to as many 'possibilities' as you can, anyone that you may come across. Don't focus on anything long term as dinner dates, just focus on whether or not she is someone you would like to spend a little time, over something simple and non-committal like coffee or just hanging out.

This will be beneficial to you because the more women you know, the more possibilities you have for doing something with them throughout the week. Use this to your benefit like this; if you set up a meeting for a Tuesday and she counters with a 'call me on the weekend' line, you can easily tell her that you aren't free. Why, because you have set up another meeting with another woman for that day. You won't seem needy, you will seem popular in her eyes, you will seem to be a challenge, all of the characteristics of a DJ.

Like I said in a previous post, what makes a DJ stand out from the crowd is that they follow their own path, he isn't common nor does he do things that's common. COMMON IS BORING! They are not like everyone else in that they aren't in any rush to get anywhere in their personal life. If a particular woman is busy, no sweat. He knows that there's another who's available. If he knows her, he'll give her a call. If he doesn't know her, he'll go out and meet her, simple as that.

Don't let this incident become a setback. Understand what didn't work and do something else. Don't do what's common, do what works. Do it enough and you will notice that you will not have to remember the things that you should do, they will become habit. They will replace the ineffective AFC habits and you will more successful.

 

[NatureGuy]

Question:Is it not true that AFCs normally do what's 'common?' Also, how often do the common things work out in the long run?

Not to belabor the point, but everything you've suggested is pretty common too.
I don't claim to know it all, but I have observed that once there is some initial interest on her part, it is one's personal conduct that might possibly increase or at least maintain interest, not so much the circumstances (type of date) in which they occur.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by NatureGuy
...I have observed that once there is some initial interest on her part, it is one's personal conduct that might possibly increase or at least maintain interest, not so much the circumstances (type of date) in which they occur.

So if the type of date isn't a major factor, why the need to take a woman to dinner if there is only some initial interest?

I agree that it doesn't matter. But I also understand that most women (not all) fall into two basic categories:

1) They are professional daters who will go out with any guy that pays

2) Cautious women who want to take it slow and usually feel that guys will naturally want something from them if they take them out to something where they don't go dutch and costs over $5.00 (estimate).

The balance of women are secure enough to decide within a couple of minutes of meeting whether or not they are interested AND will not waste anyones time by going out to dinner with you. Those are the ones that will either go LJBF or NEXT you.

Knowing that, a guy who's able to meet and go out with several women (3 or more) a week can drop a lot of money, time and effort on something that may not pan out. Trust me, once you get popular enough to date several times a week, dropping $30-$50 dollars a date and spending about $200 a week on dating makes a good dent in your wallet.

 

[NatureGuy]

Trust me, once you get popular enough to date several times a week, dropping $30-$50 dollars a date and spending about $200 a week on dating makes a good dent in your wallet.

Well, I'm glad we seem to agree on most of it, but I have to laugh at the above.
I'll never be that popular, fortunately, because I'd never have the time to do it.
I'm beginning to wonder how many people work around here..... !
Of course, let's acknowledge that much of
your perspective comes from online dating, where I would think your approach
would be needed.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by NatureGuy
Well, I'm glad we seem to agree on most of it, but I have to laugh at the above.
I'll never be that popular, fortunately, because I'd never have the time to do it.
I'm beginning to wonder how many people work around here..... !
Of course, let's acknowledge that much of
your perspective comes from online dating, where I would think your approach
would be needed.

I was surprised also but I was going out several times a week. It came across suddenly but I had my Palm Pilot full of names and numbers of women I would meet. The great thing about it was that it steam rolled once I started just striking up conversations whenever I was out.

The thing is that qualifying women should be done no matter if you are online or not. I had turned down more women than I would ask out, but I was meeting about 10 women a week. I'm not saying that I got 10 #closes, but 3 or 5 out of 10 isn't bad.

When you take the time to learn about the women without the pressure of 'dating' you tend to find a bunch of people that you can hang out with. These people notice that you are popular and other people enjoy your company. This adds to your attractiveness and the challenge of having THEM try to pull you out of the poll and keep you to themselves.

 

[Evo]

Francisco d'Anconia thats a very good point u got there, reading ur posts just made me want to appoarch more, thank u

 

[Panther]

Ok, now with my One-itis subsiding and my mind clearing, I can see what I think went wrong:

In my class I hold the persona of the aloof, cool but really smart guy whom everyone knows but almost noone knows much about.
And I carry myself like a king

Which is probably what caused her interest.

Now, by dropping my mystery and falling for her barrage of personal questions trick (damn she was good at that!) I let her know too much about me too soon, and it appeared that I was trying to get her to like me, rather than trying to qualify her...

And by calling too soon, and trying to arrange weekend dinner plans, I dropped the challenge, showing her that I have nothing better to do during my weekend than take out a girl I barely started seeing.

Which either caused her to lose interest completely, or led her to believe she got me hooked and she should start playing hard to get.

My plan: Email her next Wednesday, saying that my interviews went great, and her tips really helped. That I had intented to take her for a pizza last weekend as a thanks (and note that my college doesnt offer dinner at weekends so i usually eat out). And tell her that if she still wants to do it, i might be able to do Thursday evening or perhaps go for coffee early Friday afternoon.
And add that if she's still busy, my thanks will have to be enough.

This will establish a few things:
a) I'm not a loser with too much free time. I have a good reason for eating out on weekends with people, and a good reason to want to eat out with her.
b) It's almost a favour I'm doing her taking her out, and not the other way around
c) It's her last chance to keep seeing me. If she's not disinterested she would have no option but to play the game on my terms.

If she says she's sorry but she's busy when I propose, and offers no alternative, means I lost her interest, and I will have to be more careful in the future... Thats what I think will happen but its not the first time, but i hope it's the last

If she says she can't do the times I'm offering but proposes a clear alternative offer, means that she has some interest left, and wants to test me. I will say I'm busy when she offers, and say i might call her another time... Then wait a couple of weeks and try again! Any tricks on her part and she's nexted

If she accepts and seems keen on going out with me, I'll say unfortunately I can't make it Thursday afterall, and go for the coffee on Friday. There I will refuse to answer her questions about me, and qualify her! Flirt, C+F, kino etc.

How does this seem as a battle plan?

ThePanther

 

[MisterAl]

Re-think your battle plan.

First, call her, do not email her. You need to hear her voice and reaction on the telephone to properly gauge her Interest Level. Email does not allow you to judge her response as she views your message privately. Keep the call _short_.

You shouldn't take her out as "thanks" for anything. Instead you're going out with her because you like her company, and your judgement on this fact will change as soon as she proves herself unworthy of your company. You should not explain yourself or justify anything to her.

Your call needs to be as simple as, "Hey let's get coffee Thursday afternoon." She will accept, counteroffer or decline.

Do not counteroffer for her by laying out your schedule of free evenings. You need to zip it and listen to her response. She must be the one to counteroffer.

You already have one decline-without-counteroffer from this chick. The likely explanation is low IL. Give her one more chance, but no matter what this is good practice for you on telephone skills. This has been a memorable lesson about mystery and Challenge.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Evo
Francisco d'Anconia thats a very good point u got there, reading ur posts just made me want to appoarch more, thank u

You're welcome. Focusing on the smaller bits of closing such as approaching, rapport and kino makes closing less daunting. You may get to the point where women will attempt #closing on you before you have decided whether you would want to hang out with her.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by MisterAl
Re-think your battle plan.

First, call her, do not email her. You need to hear her voice and reaction on the telephone to properly gauge her Interest Level. Email does not allow you to judge her response as she views your message privately. Keep the call _short_.

You shouldn't take her out as "thanks" for anything. Instead you're going out with her because you like her company, and your judgement on this fact will change as soon as she proves herself unworthy of your company. You should not explain yourself or justify anything to her.

Your call needs to be as simple as, "Hey let's get coffee Thursday afternoon." She will accept, counteroffer or decline.

Do not counteroffer for her by laying out your schedule of free evenings. You need to zip it and listen to her response. She must be the one to counteroffer.

You already have one decline-without-counteroffer from this chick. The likely explanation is low IL. Give her one more chance, but no matter what this is good practice for you on telephone skills. This has been a memorable lesson about mystery and Challenge.

D@amn, straight on point for point! I just have to add one thing, there is no reason for Panther to justify why he goes out for dinner on weekend.

Panther, it's your business whether you want to go out, eat in or not eat at all. Think about it, how does a guy look if he is justifying why he goes out to eat? That's a bit AFC.

Other than that Panther, it sounds like you understand why things didn't work out and where you made your mistakes. Just remember that DJs have nothing to prove, they let their actions speak for themselves.

 

[Panther]

You are right on the no justifying thing...

As for the call vs. email

1) I'm not a native english speaker, and this girl is damn good at talking (I'd have to keep in mind, if I get to go out with her again, NOT let her keep me on the defensive with her questions...)
So it would be more awkward for me to convey what i want, the way I want it

2) I'm really really good at using written innuendo and getting my point subtly, as well as reading "between" the lines of people's responses

So I'd stick with what works best for me, send her my disguised "ultimatum" and see what happens.

ThePanther