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fear versus reality

joekerr31

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Fantasy versus Reality

i wanted to take a moment to talk about reality versus fantasy, as i believe this is a SERIOUS issue for a lot of men.

most men have no concept of reality, and as such live very unhappy and unfufilling lives.

if you are paying the rent and are physically healthy, then you have everything you need to be happy. if you have these things and aren't happy, its becuase you aren't living in reality.

you see, reality is a harsh mother f*cker. people get hit by cars, people get cancer, people's children get stolen, molested and killed by sick f*cks. etc.

reality is filled with a lot of horrendous sh*t.

now, luckily though most of us don't experience these things. but because we don't, we are free to believe in all kinds of disney bullsh*t. we are free to sit there and wish away our lives - hoping for that playboy model, or making a million dollars, or whatever. and because we don't have these things we think we have 'failed' in life.

and that thought process, of seeing yourself as a failure, is the biggest obstacle to getting women and improving your life that there is.

you see, the men who are truly successful in life are the ones who are living in reality. they don't spend their lives worrying about what they do and don't have. they don't judge themselves by how much money they are making or how many women they have bed.

they are men who appreciate what they have. they don't sit there complaining about what they dont have. they realize that as long as they have their health then they are LUCKY.

and because they have this attitude of appreciation for the smallest things in life, they have a strength. they are able to chase after their dreams, after women, etc. and not fear failure. because they don't see their life as horrible if their business fails, or a woman rejects them, etc.

you cannot build a life you love if you don't love your life to start with!

you see, the reality is that you were never meant to be a millionaire. nature designed you to be a simple creature - eat, sleep, f*ck. thats all you need. and heck, nature was even kinder, the only things you have to worry about are eating and sleeping. if you can't get a chic you can still spank the monkey.

you see, in reality your life is wonderful even at its most basic level.

its only because so many of us reject reality. we reject the simplicity of life. we say 'NO! THAT'S NOT ENOUGH. I WANT IT ALL. I WANT WHAT EVERYONE ELSE WANTS. I WANT WHAT I SEE ON TV EVERY DAY. I DESERVE IT!" that we end up hating our lives and ourselves.

we also end up makign STUPID decisions and taking ridiculous risks trying to attain these things.

we let women treat us like sh*t because the idea of not having a woman horrifies us because it plays into our own sense of failure.

there are guys who reject all kinds of great women because they are hb6's, because they want an hb 9 (even though they themselves are only male versions of a 6). and they think themselves failures because they can't land hb9s. here life presents them with a woman who would be perfect for them as a companion and yet they reject her - because mass media has led them to believe that an hb6 isn't worth anything.

now, im not saying that reality means you have to settle for less. but if you are a 6, you shouldn't feel bad about hooking up with an hb6.

reality is filled with a TON of horrendous sh*t. people die in car crashes. people get cancer. people suffer from depression. people get divorced. people lose their jobs. etc.

as long as you have your health you have everything you need to be HAPPY.

you are wasting your life if you live in the world of FANTASY and as a result are miserable or discontent. you are wasting your life if you are focused on what you don't have, instead of what you do have.

and in the world of fantasy you will make horrible choices, because you are chasing after happiness. but happiness is does not come from external things. and the more you try to find it in the external things, the more you will be depressed that you can't seem to find it.

but if you get with reality and realize that you have A LOT to be happy about as long as you have your health, then it becomes very easy to build on that happiness.

it becomes easy to deal with women. a woman who increases your happiness is good, a woman who detracts from it is bad. but you first have to be happy to make that judgement! if you aren't happy then how would you know whether a woman detracts from your happiness.

i know this is a bit of a minimalist view on life, BUT, a minimalist view is good. its at the core of all the advanced ideologies (christianty, buddhism, hinduism, etc.). adn the reason is that minimalism reminds you that happiness comes from within. and it also makes you value and appreciate everything that comes in to your life!

if you love your life with just the bare bones - ie. your health - you will be able to truly appreciate all the extras that come into your life (women, jobs, money, etc.)

but if you don't love your life with just the bare bones - ie. just you and your health - then you will never appreciate the things that come in to your life. you will always worry that if you lose them your life will return to being sh*t.

this is the root of many AFCs - they hate themselves and their life and they FEAR rejection and they FEAR losing their woman.

a man who does not love his life in its most basic form is destined to live a life of FEAR. fear of losing his job, fear of dying, fear of divorce, fear or being screwed over by others, etc.

we have been brainwashed to reject minimalism - to reject reality. we have been brainwashed to embrace excess and to believe that a man is only worth what he possessses. that without success in his career, with women, etc. he is nothing.

but its this type of thinking that creates a self fulfilling prophecy. its this type of thinking that makes you a slave to a job you hate, which makes you afraid to take career risks, which amkes you afraid of CHANGE, and which makes you a slave to women.

anyway, just thought i'd toss these thoughts out there for consumption. :)
 
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joekerr31

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oh and just one other thought...

i think a lot of men get married because they perceive that getting married is part of 'happiness'. part of a 'complete' life.

but you know, whats the point of getting married if you end up divorced at 45.

you won't be any further ahead.

yet another example of how doing thing sto become happy is a huge mistake.

be happy first and then do things that are in line with your existing state of happiness.

i honestly believe that if people were to find happiness within themselves they would avoid making 99% of the mistakes they make in life.

moreover, they would find all the things they want because they would be able to sift through the world with an appropriate perspective on things.
 

bigjohnson

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This is why it's great to be a man. We're a lot more self contained than women, a man can actually be happy with just himself and his hobbies. Women need social interaction and specifically usually need men in their life.

I think this is a large part of why many women like to sneer at mens hobbies as "toys for grown men". They know their competition never gets a headache and is always ready to play for us. ;)
 

STR8UP

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Very good post, as usual. We need more of the philosophical stuff around here, cause it applies to ALL facets of life, not just women.

I'll have to come back to this later.
 

Micheal Moon

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Great post (as usual) from joekerr.

When I was younger when I considered having girlfriend or having a girl and eventually being married being "a success", and part of my self concept was tied into my success with women.

Wasn't until I was in my midtwenties that I began to shake loose from this belief system. I recall having a discussion with my younger sister (by two years) about this issue. The issue of what exactly is REAL in life. Life is not a hollywood script in which you grow up marry the person of your dreams and live happily ever after.

Rather we have to actively create our own destinies. The buddhists believe that the source of suffering is attachment. I am sort of a mongrel when it comes to spiritual beliefs myself but I truly believe that. People have unhealthy attachments to certain ideals in life and when those don't pan out, you suffer or feel pain. When you live non attached to a lofty fantasy or ideal you are truly at peace with yourself and the world.

However, this is not as easy as it sounds. Especially considering the tendency of human nature is to attach to things and the way society conditions us on what happiness and success in life truly is.

This is the challenge we have to face as we move forward.
 

jophil28

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Micheal Moon said:
Great post (as usual) from joekerr.



The buddhists believe that the source of suffering is attachment.
The buddhists have many beliefs that do not stand up to rational scrutiny. "Attachments" per se, are not the problem...rather UNHEALTHY attachments are where the problems lie. Pursuing something ,or someone who, is demonstrably bad for you is probably what they really mean.
 

aliasguy

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jophil28 said:
The buddhists have many beliefs that do not stand up to rational scrutiny. "Attachments" per se, are not the problem...rather UNHEALTHY attachments are where the problems lie. Pursuing something ,or someone who, is demonstrably bad for you is probably what they really mean.


Jophil-----


I understand what you are saying here, but I think you have an incomplete understanding of the oft-quoted Buddhist phrase "no attachment to dust." It's a little more complicated than that.

It doesn't mean that one cannot seek, or pursue something, but that one should only pursue, or seek, or try to attain or "capture" something with a clear mindset that includes the possibility of FAILURE to achieve the given goal. Failure to grasp the ring is to be ACCEPTED, and not viewed, or FELT, as a negative. One simply moves on.

And, I'll strongly agree with you that "attachment" to something "unhealthy" is not in our own best interest. You are right about this. Unhealthy "seeking" is counterproductive.

But what if something is NOT unhealthy for you, but you are STILL "attached" and you don't obtain it, and you "suffer"? Is this to be welcomed? (NO) Can the suffering be avoided? (Short answer --- yes.)


The point of the buddhist maxim about attachment is NOT about healthy versus unhealthy attachments. It's about the pain potentially involved in ALL "attachments."

To avoid the "pain" of suffering in life, one can still SEEK, and STRIVE and TRY, and, then...... succeed or fail. And accept it. And still not be "attached" to the final outcome in that negative sense.



(I guess it's like the conventional wisdom here ---- approach, and be less concerned with rejection than regret.)

-
--
 

mxylplk

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joekerr31, thanks for the insight. That was very inspiring and profound as is most of the posts that I've read from you on the forums. You're like a Zen Master! I hope most of us guys take that message to heart.
 

STR8UP

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joekerr31 said:
now, luckily though most of us don't experience these things. but because we don't, we are free to believe in all kinds of disney bullsh*t. we are free to sit there and wish away our lives - hoping for that playboy model, or making a million dollars, or whatever. and because we don't have these things we think we have 'failed' in life.
I went from having virtually nothing to living like a rock star in a "Cribs" style bachelor pad complete with a rooftop jacuzzi and a BMW and a 350z in the garage.

I'm down to one car, the 350, which is still nice, but the Bimmer was plush. I don't miss it.

Moved out of the townhouse and into something more modest. Again, it's still a nice place, but not something an NBA player would live in like the other place.

I spent a year and a half playing party host. Mr. High Roller. And you know what? Even though I have scaled down I STILL have too much. I would be happy with a basic car and a clean, safe place to live.

It ain't all it's cracked up to be. But I never would have known that unless I experienced it.

Having a bunch of "stuff" doesn't do a damned thing for me. I would be happier to live modestly and travel all over the world.

I still have yet to find "happiness", but i can tell you one thing.....it isn't having a really hot chick in your bed or a bunch of toys that do more to impress other people than anything.

we also end up makign STUPID decisions and taking ridiculous risks trying to attain these things.
There was a quote in the 48 Laws of Power from a famous con artist that essentially said he took pleasure in teaching people a lesson by swindling people out of their money based on THEIR OWN greed.

but if you get with reality and realize that you have A LOT to be happy about as long as you have your health, then it becomes very easy to build on that happiness.
For most people it's very difficult to realize this from their perspective. Unless you've HAD those things which you desire, it's tough to understand that "things" do nothing but temporarily divert your attention away from your problems in the best case scenario.
 

ketostix

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While I agree happiness essentially has to be "created" from within one's self, I still think external factors come into play. However I also agree that a persons internal condition or happiness has an influence on the external condition, i.e., how other's respond to the person. So being able to "create" internal happiness is almost a necessity to experiencing happiness and is a positive feedback.

But the one thing mentioned in this thread that I disagree with is the idea, that you can't gain happiness from external factors, and the idea that if you want something you automatically setting yourself up for pain. I don't know of too many things where there not a case ofthe higher the reward the greater the risk. I think in order to feel a gain you have to feel a loss or pain. And I don't see anything wrong with wanting and losing as long as you don't hit ruin and you "spread your bets" reasonably.
 

joekerr31

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ketostix said:
But the one thing mentioned in this thread that I disagree with is the idea, that you can't gain happiness from external factors, and the idea that if you want something you automatically setting yourself up for pain.

well perhaps i should have been clearer on that point.

without being happy internally thsoe external things will not bring you happiness.

if you are happy with teh bare bones, you can add further things that you enjoy to your life. its kind of like if you like ice cream then thats great, but you can also add chocolate sauce, cherrys, bananas, etc. but if you dont have those things, you can still enjoy ice cream by itself.

but if you don't have ice cream to start with, you're f*cked.

i dont know, im tired, so maybe not the best example.

the thing is if you depend on external things for your happiness, then you can't really be happy, because in essence you will always fear losing those things. in essense you will exist in a state of neurosis to one extent or another.

moreover, almost everyone who is highly successful learns what str8up said, that the 'things' dont mean anything.

now, i understand that people who have next to nothing (and ive been one of those people in life) often refuse to believe that 'stuff' doesnt bring happiness. its hard to convince someone that cant afford a car that having a car won't make them happier.

well, the truth is that if they are happy already, a car will make them happier. but if they aren't happy, a car wont make them happy. it may make them less miserable, but it wont make them happy.

i know its all sort of complicated when you really think about it, but you'll never ever own enough stuff to feel happy about yourself or life. in the end you can be distracted by 'stuff' so that you don't really think about whether you are happy or not too much, but eventually that wears off.

and heaven forbid you lose your stuff. that's like the heroin suddenly trying up for the heroin addict. when they no longer have their heroin they realize just how miserable they are.

so the fact that you find external things interesting and interact with the world - date women, buy cars, eat edible panties, etc. - is not a bad thing. but if you are looking ******d for happiness instead of inward, you will go through life making choices that you think are about attaining happiness, but which steer you further and further away from it - because ultimately it comes from within.

im glad some folks have gotten what i've said. because we are so conditioned by the matrix to see detachment of material objects as bad - we are brainwashed to consume.

and the irony to all this is that i believe that those who find happiness inside actually end up with all the things worth having. they end up with great relationships with people, they end up with careers they enjoy, some of them even get rich in the process.

and the get to REALLY enjoy all those things, because they aren't worry about losing them. if they lose them so be it, they will still be happy with themselves and life.

like i say, its a minimalist perspective. which is in stark contrast to a materialist perspective of the West today - which is to stuff your face full of cheeseburgers until you can't breath. and hey, i know it feels good for many while they are doing it, until they hit 40 and all their arteries are clogged and they have to have a triple bipass.

then they realize that the only reason they thought cheeseburgers made them happy was that they weren't happy inside.

ok, im half asleep as i type, so time for bed.
 

driver55

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Thanks

I've been struggling with this recently. I have been losing alot of money in the stock market. I can still pay my bills and have some left to spend/save. But I need to stop concerning with myself in the day to day drops in the market recently, because it is keeping me from hitting my million or even catching up to some of my peers.

Just be thankful for what I have. But more importantly, LIVE IN REALITY.

Good post, thanks.
 

#41

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joekerr31 said:
there are guys who reject all kinds of great women because they are hb6's, because they want an hb 9 (even though they themselves are only male versions of a 6). and they think themselves failures because they can't land hb9s. here life presents them with a woman who would be perfect for them as a companion and yet they reject her - because mass media has led them to believe that an hb6 isn't worth anything.

now, im not saying that reality means you have to settle for less. but if you are a 6, you shouldn't feel bad about hooking up with an hb6.
Tell me again how that isn't settling?

I thought the whole point of all this PUA/DJ stuff was to stop thinking about valuation in a 1-1 ratio (e.g.: I'm a 5, the best I can aspire to is a hb5 woman). Maybe I'm mistaken in that.

And the line about an hb6 being a perfect companion? Wouldn't it naturally be a pre-requisite for being a "perfect companion" that the woman be someone you are attracted to? It's somewhat of a condescending attitude -- 6s should be happy to score 6s, leave the 8s and 9s for the better looking guys.

I like your stuff, J -- have always enjoyed it when I was lurking. There were some good points here (especially about wishing your life away over money, etc.), but I disagree with a good bit of what you said.
 

realsmoothie

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Just to tweak this a little...

...I agree that it's futile to spend one's life in the acquisition of material things or women or "career accomplishments".

HOWEVER

I think it's essential for us to aspire to something, something that's karmically good. It could be helping others in need, developing good relationships (both sexual and friendly), building lasting achievements in art or science or philosophy, that kind of thing.

North America has this GO GO GO attitude, this constant ambition as created by Calvinism and the Puritans and capitalism... but it's been radically twisted by consumerism to mean acquiring "stuff".

And, at the same time... I think a little desire is a good thing. Our brains are built for it, so to reward yourself with a little "somethin' somethin'" every once in a while is beneficical. Just don't let it run your life.
 

Mr.Positive

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#41 said:
I thought the whole point of all this PUA/DJ stuff was to stop thinking about valuation in a 1-1 ratio (e.g.: I'm a 5, the best I can aspire to is a hb5 woman). Maybe I'm mistaken in that.

And the line about an hb6 being a perfect companion? Wouldn't it naturally be a pre-requisite for being a "perfect companion" that the woman be someone you are attracted to? It's somewhat of a condescending attitude -- 6s should be happy to score 6s, leave the 8s and 9s for the better looking guys.
Well, your HB6 may very well be a HB8, or HB9, to me. So, I do see your point, however by assigning a number to a HB, we give that HB a value of some sort. In that case, each one of us should not settle for anything less than a HB10.

That's the thing. Each one of us has a different 'picture' of success, what to strive for. At least we should, we should look deep and find what that picture is.

People get miserable when they don't know what success is, for themselves, so they listen to what society says, and the media.

Get married, have 2.5 kids...yeah, that's success! That's what I need to do, so the AFC works towards that goal, then I'll be successful, then society will look at me and see a happy guy.

And that's it really. Just like Joekerr said, it's the people that focus on reality, not the pipe dream that mass media force feeds us, that truly reach a state of being that gives them that satisfied, content feeling, that everyone strives for.

The happiest people I've ever met did not have much possessions, but didn't care, they were focused on living life to the fullest, focused on the people around them, and understood their individual purpose in this life, for themselves. They had strong goals, but the end goal was not the achievement, it was the little steps they took along the way that made them complete.

In other words..they had a 'higher focus' in life then your average person.
 

MikeYikes122

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I agree with this thread and think you're right Joeker. What you've said is how a true man should think and act.

But I think this is also good advice for anyone, regardless of sex. What you've basically said is that a person should see things in perspective and be happy with what he or she has. I think that is a life lesson anyone would do well in internalizing.

One of my friends (a girl) has spent the last week and a half crying herself to sleep every night because she didn't get some job that would have paid her four grand more per year and allowed her to move closer to her boyfriend. She's been depressed for a week, while she should instead just be happy that she has a decent job and a good guy for a boyfriend.
 

azanon

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Overall, great post joekerr. I tried to give some rep points for it, but it said I have to spread the love around first. I know several people I interact with daily who have no idea at all about thinking the way you posted. I see so many people living in a self-created misery. Worse, most if not all of these people are not open to tutelage as to how to make life better.

I did want to expand on one point you made:

joekerr31 said:
there are guys who reject all kinds of great women because they are hb6's, because they want an hb 9 (even though they themselves are only male versions of a 6). and they think themselves failures because they can't land hb9s. here life presents them with a woman who would be perfect for them as a companion and yet they reject her - because mass media has led them to believe that an hb6 isn't worth anything.
I disagree with a general mindset here that says looks is more or less everything when it comes to a woman. I contiue to say its just one thing. In fact, I advocate a threshold approach with looks. If they pass the threshold (meaning, its passing), then the real examination starts.

Case and point. I've made a recent "friendship" with a HB7. She's darn cute (in HB7 fashion), more than f***able, but by no means a model. But this is just the start. She's a 31 year old GS-13 (high paying fed job), that is very compassionate (if there's a charity going on, she's in it; usually hosting it), is president of toastmasters, active in all sorts of things outside work, has interesting hobbies, is the kind of person others come to for mentoring, and I could go on and on. No, i'm not having an affair with her, but I do recognize her as an example of the kind of quality you occasionally here me talk about.

Now guys, if you are going to tell me you'd prefer a HB9 that could barely spell her name, is unemployeed, and couldn't name more than 5 presidents, I'd say you are a fool.

We've all heard the saying beauty is skin deep. I suspect its a saying because its true both literally and figuratively.

I'm not saying settle for a dog, but I think making looks the alpha and omega is a very flawed approach. Sex lasts about 15 minutes, 30-45 minutes if you draw it out. Once you c**, you'll have that mindless person and very expensive liability on the other side of the bed.
 
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