FB situation

[Radninja]

Hey guys, I've been lurking for a while on this forum, and had learned many a good thing concerning women. I'm currently working on acting out on good advice here and completely dropping the AFC mindset. So far the results are good, considering a prior relationship with a BPD left me in bitterness and disillusionment for two years after the breakup. Man, am I glad the pain is gone now.

Anyway, I thought I'd share the details of my recent FB relationship with you, since there was a thread about such things not long ago. I met this 34 year old girl at a rockband party a few months ago, and was surprised how easy it was to interact with her. At the time I didn't expect anything sexual, since I saw that she was way older and I acted in a goofy and nonchelant way with her.

Cue in a week of banter on facebook, and I'm quite sure that she's interested. I mean, the girl is cute. Thin redhead with nice ass, and an interesting person to boot. So I figure why not, whatever happens happens, better to take the chance than sit with a d1ick in your hands at night. So I invite myself over for a movie at her place. I nail her within the hour. She tells me she doesn't really do this, as in put out so fast. I assure her that I don't see her as being slutty, she can blame me for coming on too strong.

Cue in next 6 weeks. I keep running mild game on her - send her rediculous texts of the things I'd do to her at night. I always crack the most off the wall jokes, and she eats it up. She can't get enough of me, says I'm one of the best sexual partners I've had. We discuss our arrangement and both agree that it's short term and that we're looking for others while taking care of our needs. Then it gets to a point that I'm practically there every night, and it starts to feel like a relationship. I know I shouldn't see her as much, but I just can't refuse the free sex every night. Well, we get into routine of watching House before going to bed, and a few times she's too tired for sex. I let it go. It doesn't help that first she, then I get sick from a cold and we start spending platonic nights together.

In any case, about two weeks ago after I make her come with my tounge she asks if it's alright if she just gives me a bj this time because she's wants to buy lube and she's been hurting from sex without sufficient lubrication. I agree. Well fellas, it becomes nothing but BJ the next two weeks. She justifies it by saying she's too tired, or that me giving her a massage gives her just as much pleasure as sex. At first I gave her the benefit of a doubt, but after a night when she was not aroused at all - I couldn't make her come, I knew that her IL is gone.

Next time I see her, same crap -- too tired. She gets up on Saturday morning, doesn't let me initiate sex because she's going for a run but asks me to stay in bed until she's back. She proceeds to wait for an hour before going on that run and comes back when there's no time for sex and she is late for a party with her friends that afternoon. She blows me off and says, "see, I gave you pleasure!". But I couldn't help but see how giddy she was to not be with me to go somewhere else. At this point I'm thinking, the pus$y well has dried up for whatever reason, time to end it. Half hour after I leave I send her a text saying goodbye, and to put my show we've been watching in the mail. That was and will be my last contact with her. She blows up my phone at first with BS, then leaves a message saying sorry, "I've been acting weird lately because there's a friend who I'm interested in." Bingo! I had no idea, but calling her on bs made her confirm it and try to guilt trip me for feeling sorry for her.

In any case, I realized that I lost the frame halfway through the relationship when I stayed over without having sex and didn't call her out on the bj thing right away. But the IL was gone, and she tried to make me supplicate and be her "friend". Not going to happen. Long rant short, I'm glad I had this experience and in the way I handled it even though it did not end how I thought it would. I'll be looking to grow and learn from this, and start banging higher quality, younger girls soon.

 

[samspade]

I'd say you have an accurate read of both the experience and the mistakes you made, which is good.

You let yourself slip into a routine wherein it was a de facto relationship - even though you went in with the intention of being FBs at best. That's easy to do, but when she started pulling back on the sex, YOU should have started pulling back on the personal appearances. You were tolerating her withdrawls of sex, and rewarding her with emotional/platonic attention that females value.

I think the biggest lesson to learn from this is not to be so available, even if it IS free sex every night. Give yourself a break or find another plate, so you're not at her beck and call.

 

[jophil28]

You let yourself slip into a routine wherein it was a de facto relationship - even though you went in with the intention of being FBs at best. That's easy to do, but when she started pulling back on the sex, YOU should have started pulling back on the personal appearances. You were tolerating her withdrawls of sex, and rewarding her with emotional/platonic attention that females value.

That is great advice from SamS.
You became her 'instant Boyfriend' by hurrying back every night for a bang and then she knew that she had you on toast. It was her game after that.
Notice how she spoke to you as if you should be 'grateful' for her bjs ?

 

[decades]

the next time you meet a cluster b, try not to get sucked in like the last 2. study some of the many many threads on how to recognize one "in the wild".

 

[KontrollerX]

Heh heh you make finding them sound very Steve Irwin like or how those anti virus companies like F-secure talk about viruses being found "in the wild" PE. :crackup:

BTW, samspade gave you the best advice Radninja but in this chick's case I wouldn't say she was low quality.

She is like every other woman and that means if you don't provide them enough excitement while at the same time giving them a chance to miss you and wonder what YOU are doing then the relationship will soon turn into a lemon.

So remember she would still be yours and probably can be again in the future but you need some massive time apart to let her forget you.

Then all you have to do is as you and Sam identified keep your frame and give her once again proper amounts of drama, excitement and missing you time and you'll be in full control.

 

[Radninja]

Great, thanks for the advice guys. Yeah, I recognized the low interest signs and then knew that it was too late to try to regain the frame. I'll chalk it up as a learning experience and will remember to decide on my boundaries and enforce them without fail. It is funny how women give you tremendous amount of respect if you keep leading and stay one step ahead of them. But if you decide to reciprocate with equal respect she starts to keep pushing the boundaries and looses attraction if you don't stand up to her BS.

Yeah, she is a good person but a typical modern girl. I've certainly seen many low quality histrionic girls and she is not one of them. But she may be a mild cluster B, and has definitely been through a large share of afc men to learn to play modern women's tactics, or at least try to pull them at some point on her man.

As of this point I'm not sure I want to ever get back with her. But I'm still going through withdrawal and am somewhat bitter at myself for becoming too comfortable with her, and her as well for showing the typical female response in this situation. Currently I am setting up my summer plans to meet as many women as possible, in my dating pool 18-25. The booty call was good while it lasted, and I'm going to learn a few things as a result. Thanks again for the advice.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Rad,
My tip is she has a Venereal Disease.

 

[decades]

I've seen this a million times. met her at a party. she's either much younger Or much older. It was ridiculously easy. You didn't have to work. You didn't have to game her. Everything just "flowed".

Your first date was her place for a "movie". You banged it out within one hour. She doesn't "usually do this" kind of stuff "so soon". You got rockstar sex. You were in heaven. You were her best ever. In her eyes, you could do no wrong. It was too good to be true. She put you on a pedestal and idealized you in the first six weeks, sucking you "in".

Once hooked, she flipped the script. However, she was not through with you. She still wants you in her "posse". She still says you can be in her fan club. She still wants you as a friend. She is going to have more drama, and she needs "someone" to listen to all that stuff. She wants to see you react when she tells you stories about what he does to her.

You need to quickly recognize the signs being sent your way, and act accordingly. Read and study how to recognize them, because you have radar for them, and they have radar for you.


ps: she wasn't a FB was she? you don't start threads about FB's you've known for a few months. Let's call this what it is. A really bad case of oneitis with the "wrong" chick.

 

[jophil28]

You were tolerating her withdrawls of sex, and rewarding her with emotional/platonic attention that females value.

This a fatal error that all men need to make just ONCE to fully experience the power plays that some women execute with the supply and withholding of sex.

There is little that we can do to transform sex gamers into quality woman. However, we can do a lot about our own responses to these games.
SamS said it all in the quote above.

 

[Radninja]

Thanks for the tip PE. I'm not denying that she could be somewhat BPD. But there is no oneitis. I'm never going to see her again, period.

 

[jophil28]

You were her best ever. In her eyes, you could do no wrong. It was too good to be true. She put you on a pedestal and idealized you in the first six weeks, sucking you "in".

Once hooked, she flipped the script. However, she was not through with you. She still wants you in her "posse". She still says you can be in her fan club. She still wants you as a friend. She is going to have more drama, and she needs "someone" to listen to all that stuff. She wants to see you react when she tells you stories about what he does to her.

You need to quickly recognize the signs being sent your way, and act accordingly. Read and study how to recognize them, because you have radar for them, and they have radar for you.

That describes some typical Cluster B behavior ...and most guys who date one are totally unaware of what they are getting set up for.
I hope that the OP does his research so that he never encounters another one, or if he does, that he is forewarned and forearmed.

 

[NewMan]

We can talk about he as much as we want - but the truth of the matter is, OP made several mistakes:

Then it gets to a point that I'm practically there every night, and it starts to feel like a relationship. I know I shouldn't see her as much, but I just can't refuse the free sex every night. Well, we get into routine of watching House before going to bed, and a few times she's too tired for sex. I let it go. It doesn't help that first she, then I get sick from a cold and we start spending platonic nights together.

This is death of the casual banging relationship. Your lack of options - led you to spend to much time with her - I know you rightly pointed out this mistake in your post...


It is very difficult to maintain a casual relationship without getting sucked in. It takes a strong will and you need to constantly remind yourself why your there.

I think some guys just are not cut out for it - you must be somewhat "Heartless" as the 80's song from "Heart" goes.....

 

[Radninja]

Thanks NewMan, I was just going to say that she may be inclined to play cluster B games, but me turning afc halfway through did not help the situation. I was going into it just thinking of a booty call. But yea, I got to like her as a person. And when it came time to reset the frame I didn't see the narrow opportunity for it or her covert sh!t tests that followed.

I did game this chick, before and during the relationship. But somewhere along the line I stopped doing it and she saw it as an invitation to start playing games.

 

[decades]

Thanks for the tip PE. I'm not denying that she could be somewhat BPD. But there is no oneitis. I'm never going to see her again, period.

there isn't any oneitis now. that's a given. But only because she flipped the script on you after sucking you in. Look, you were with her every night. If you weren't hurting over this there would be no thread. Be that as it may, this chick didn't "play" cluster b games. That's her personality. You did good to get with her and have some fun with her. But learn to keep it at that. Just realize what you are dealing with and don't get sucked in by a good actress. With your experience now with these types, you will be fine.

 

[LeftyLoosey]

This a fatal error that all men need to make just ONCE to fully experience the power plays that some women execute with the supply and withholding of sex.

My "just once" was my ex-wife.

In fact, most of the "withholding" occurs in marriages. I can't even see how a married woman in modern western cultures under modern western law can be motivated to do anything BUT withhold sex. Where's her motivation to do otherwise?

 

[LeftyLoosey]

Thanks NewMan, I was just going to say that she may be inclined to play cluster B games, but me turning afc halfway through did not help the situation. I was going into it just thinking of a booty call. But yea, I got to like her as a person. And when it came time to reset the frame I didn't see the narrow opportunity for it or her covert sh!t tests that followed.

I did game this chick, before and during the relationship. But somewhere along the line I stopped doing it and she saw it as an invitation to start playing games.

I'm amazed with how you have such an excellent grasp of the concepts taught in these forums, yet you still found yourself making fundamental mistakes.

I also came close to doing the same with a woman I was dating. I let the "I love you" slip out when it never should have. I blame being in a 4 month rut on my poor judgment. Lesson being, it's like going to the gym, as soon as you stop training, you lose your abilities. It's important to practice these skills on a daily basis lest you find yourself back at square one.

 

[jophil28]

My "just once" was my ex-wife.

In fact, most of the "withholding" occurs in marriages. I can't even see how a married woman in modern western cultures under modern western law can be motivated to do anything BUT withhold sex. Where's her motivation to do otherwise?

Why justify this behavior by asking that question in that way. Withholding sex to gain power is atrocious behavior. IT is not "natural" for woman to do this or due to their "wiring" or some such faddish speculative nonsense.
It is a cheap and nasty power grab. How, and where does that behavior have a place in marriage ?
AS much as I believe in lifelong commitment in marriage, this behavior deserves a rapid divorce.

 

[LeftyLoosey]

Why justify this behavior by asking that question in that way. Withholding sex to gain power is atrocious behavior. IT is not "natural" for woman to do this or due to their "wiring" or some such faddish speculative nonsense.
It is a cheap and nasty power grab. How, and where does that behavior have a place in marriage ?
AS much as I believe in lifelong commitment in marriage, this behavior deserves a rapid divorce.

It definitely does not have a place in marriage.

I do wonder about the "faddish speculative nonsense" that seems to be making its way around pop-culture evolutionary science circles that implies that women prefer to reproduce with different males in order to maximize the genetic variation of their offspring and thus increase their odds of survival. This is the explanation used to explain why women have less desire for sex with their husbands after having a child, and prefer to pursue other men.

The truth is, too many men just give up on life after they're married with kids. They let themselves go physically and they give up on their hobbies.

If men just maintained themselves, let alone IMPROVED themselves, the natural degradation of a wife's looks over time coupled with a man's increased marketability will keep the spark alive.

The question is: does this advantage that men have out-weigh the advantages given to women by feminist-influenced laws that strangle men in all situations related to marriage?

I think while they're still young, pretty, and marketable, women have the ability to withhold sex and use it as a weapon. Later on in a marriage, not so much. You just have to find a woman that has been raised to believe in commitment (hard to find in western cultures).

 

[squirrels]

That is great advice from SamS.
You became her 'instant Boyfriend' by hurrying back every night for a bang and then she knew that she had you on toast. It was her game after that.
Notice how she spoke to you as if you should be 'grateful' for her bjs ?

That's what's hard with women. Women get used to being in relationships. It's a pattern thing. She'll be dating a guy, start fooling around with another guy. So she's got the boyfriend and the secret lover. This becomes her default pattern. So you're the lover at first. But if she eventually breaks up with the boyfriend, you get bumped from lover to boyfriend. Then she finds someone else to fill the "lover" position. But she's constantly making the "lover" into the "boyfriend" because she's cross-wired. Her brain thinks that the one that makes her feel good should be promoted to "boyfriend", but deeper down the "boyfriend" is established in her default pattern as the "boring one".

Another example is girls with a history of abusive relationships. They are used to the one they love being the "bad guy". So if you date one, you can be friggin Superman, she will treat you like an *sshole until you get so fed up with it that you BECOME an *sshole and satisfy her "*sshole boyfriend" pattern.

They get these ideas in their head...not consciously, but subconsciously...that "this is how relationships are supposed to work". Then once they FIND a good guy, they try to force him into a role. They repeat this pattern over and over again, further reinforcing it, then wonder why all their relationships turn out the same.

They assume it's because they haven't found the "right guy" yet, never once bothering to consider that it may be something f'd up with THEM.

Law of Attraction, I suppose.

 

[jophil28]

I do wonder about the "faddish speculative nonsense" that seems to be making its way around pop-culture evolutionary science circles that implies that women prefer to reproduce with different males in order to maximize the genetic variation of their offspring and thus increase their odds of survival. This is the explanation used to explain why women have less desire for sex with their husbands after having a child, and prefer to pursue other men.

This is exactly the kind of nonsense that lefty third rate academics love to sprout .

PLease, no more of this mindless drivel. I have enough of this kind of psuedo "science" here already .
There must be precious little meat left on the psychology carcass for PhD students to pick at if this cr*p is emerging and given any cred.

Some women MAY have less desire for sex with their husbands some of the time (perhaps on a full moon or on a full stomach). Who the fuk cares why?