Facing a woman

[zekko]

I've been watching some Joshua Pellicer videos (he wrote Tao of Badass). One of the things he says is that you can be blown out because you face the woman directly with your body (with your chest). He says this communicates neediness.

I assume he's talking about cold approach situations here. I don't think he's trying to say you should never, ever face a woman? Or maybe he is, I don't know.

Anyway, this is I guess the same type of body language stuff like lean away from her, deliver an opener over the shoulder, don't lean in to her, etc. I don't know, I can see where not facing her might give you a slight aura of being cool. But I doubt very much that a woman is going to accept or reject you solely on something this subtle or trivial. I've always thought that deliberately facing away from a woman while interacting with her seemed a little asinine, but what do I know? What do you guys think?

 

[JdelaSilviera]

Hi, I´ve noticed that with girls that were more or less interested in me, for instance with one girl in her car I turned my chest to her instead of continuing to talk over the shoulder, and she seemed a bit nervous after that, crossed arms etc. Of course that´s in a car, so she might have felt intimidated.

But I do agree it shows neediness, even with girls you already know, specially if you are both standing. You should look more or less distracted by the surroundings, that you can leave any second etc. If you are facing her that way, it seems you are putting too much focus on the conversation.. thats my view.

 

[zekko]

Meh, it just seems so ridiculous. I can see that on an initial approach or whatever it might seem more casual if you seem kind of distracted. But it seems like you have to face her at some point.

How do you make eye contact with her if you don't face her? Are you supposed to kiss her over your shoulder too? Lol.

"Sorry dear, I know we're having sex but I don't want you to think that I'm focused on you".

 

[betheman]

he has to mean cold approaches, I can see his point about being needy, we all know women dont respond well to that. and being literally full on, indicates you are directing all you are, into the interaction, stepping back, looking away, appearing a bit distracted, indicates a subtle lack of outcome dependancy.

it does sem ridiculous though, the bottom line is, if she is intersted in you, you could be bearing a knife with bloodied hands virtually...and still appear ..."kinda cute though"

 

[zinc4]

It's true to a certain extent...but IMO it's more about a woman's comfort level with strangers than appearing needy on a conscious level that is...when a stranger faces me direct to talk to me...be it a sales person or someone making BS convo or whatever... i am in the middle of doing something...shopping, eating for instance or just walking...then it does send the message to me that oh crap, i have to devote all of my attention to this person...it just seems like it is forcing you to let them into your confort zone and also forcing you to direct all of your attention toward them...maybe it is a little needy thinking of it that way....but either way, it can be intimidating at first....so it probably is good advice.....come to think of it..naturally i always just point one shoulder toward a new person that i am talking to...when you really think of it, we all do this body language stuff subconsciously...i never face a stranger directly in convo unless i really like and feel immediately comfortable with that person or i am drunk and in a very happy go lucky mood...other wise i am faced partially ready to bolt at a moment's notice...

.

 

[Atom Smasher]

zinc just did my work for me.

It's a matter of intimidation and perceived commitment. She's going to be more receptive if you ease your way in under her radar. Squaring off always implies full engagement and "no escape". A sidelong approach is far more readily accepted as it relieves tension and shows high value because you're only partially committed, sort of conveying that you're not sure if she's worth your time.

In short, it is less intimidating for her and it shows less eagerness on your part.

 

[JdelaSilviera]

Meh, it just seems so ridiculous. I can see that on an initial approach or whatever it might seem more casual if you seem kind of distracted. But it seems like you have to face her at some point.

How do you make eye contact with her if you don't face her? Are you supposed to kiss her over your shoulder too? Lol.

"Sorry dear, I know we're having sex but I don't want you to think that I'm focused on you".

Yep it seems, but for instance when you are holding a conversation with a male friend you are comfortable with, you won´t be facing each other chest to chest I assure you. This may seem one of the typical robot advice, "don´t lean in" don´t do this or that sort of type, but in fact, these are very good reminders since one tends to be approval seeking with women which is not our natural behavior anyway. So many times women are not rejecting you, but your behavior with them... For my experience, if you are confident cool guy, you can say literally anything, game= confidence, I told some girls that I would totally fvck their moms for instance, it´s all about the way you deliver. This is true also about body language..

 

[synergy1]

body language, not spoken language is far more developed for humans. Interestingly enough, our spoken language is still "a work in progress"..we often don't mean what we say or say what we mean. Its unreliable at best.

That said, body language is nearly impossible to cheat, and almost a sure fire sign to ones success or failure. Women read it well. Men do not.

A sought after man will not posture with weak body language. They will not lean in, nor will they fixate all attention to women women. Women don't want the available man, they want the slightly unavailable man. Exhibiting said body language is key. Not leaning in does not project immediate interest which is a good thing for the early stages of a cold approach. Not facing towards them also is a similar sign.

Some more interesting notes. Do NOT approach a women from behind as it is proven this will prompt them on the defensive. Likewise with a competing male, do NOT approach them directly head on as this will advocate a defensive posture. For a male, its best to approach at an angle ( that is if your running interference for a wingman, or just attempting to break into a grou). Likewise with a women, a casual approach from the side with the body leaning out will connote some interest without displaying neediness. If it looks like you have elsewhere to go, it will shift the situation from you being a pursuer ( like every guy) to a passerby who is merely interested.

I hate to use this as a forum to state my success - but many of my friends regard me as successful at approaching and going home randomly with random girls on a somewhat regular basis. This reputation has been forged by being able to successfully read body language and make approaches based on signals. I have gotten good at realizing when women want to be approached. If you can master this, than ones success will literally skyrocket. I am shocked most men do NOT leverage this simple concept as its literally cheating once you figure it out. rather than focus on conversations, alpha male BS, money, bling, etc, men should almost entirely focus on reading the obvious cues prior to approaching and be able to 'fake' some body language ( to a degree) in order to keep attraction hot at the early stages of attraction.

 

[zekko]

This is interesting, since I guess I've never been the type of guy who even notices what sort of stance people take when talking to me, I could care less. After posting this though, and going about my business, I've been paying a little more attention. And from what I see, people rarely fully face each other when conversing.

I guess I'd never make one of these guys who follow body language and think things like "Ah, her feet are facing me now, time to move on to rapport".

This reputation has been forged by being able to successfully read body language and make approaches based on signals. I have gotten good at realizing when women want to be approached. If you can master this, than ones success will literally skyrocket. I am shocked most men do NOT leverage this simple concept as its literally cheating once you figure it out.

Sounds like you have some insight into this, how about sharing what you've figured out? Any tips?

 

[Atom Smasher]

I hate to use this as a forum to state my success - but many of my friends regard me as successful at approaching and going home randomly with random girls on a somewhat regular basis. This reputation has been forged by being able to successfully read body language and make approaches based on signals. I have gotten good at realizing when women want to be approached. If you can master this, than ones success will literally skyrocket. I am shocked most men do NOT leverage this simple concept as its literally cheating once you figure it out. rather than focus on conversations, alpha male BS, money, bling, etc, men should almost entirely focus on reading the obvious cues prior to approaching and be able to 'fake' some body language ( to a degree) in order to keep attraction hot at the early stages of attraction.

synergy, I agree 100% with this and I am equally surprised that this concept is all but ignored. It's my standard procedure, and the result is zero flakes (never had one in my life) and the knowledge that I am picking & choosing. It's my ball game because she presented signs of interest, so I can only lose by saying something incredibly dumb or by being too eager.

How would you feel about writing up your thoughts on this dynamic in a separate thread in the "Tips" section, or the main one for that matter? I can tell you know what you're talking about and I think this subject matter needs much more attention. Even if most of what you write is a copy of what you're saying here, your insight will get more exposure in a separate, dedicated thread.

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

The energy of your body language is more important than what you are actually doing. The misconception is that body language is merely a "pose" that your body is currently in. It is more than that. Much more.

An insecure guy trying out "dominant" poses or "alpha" poses is still going to look insecure. Energy is everything.

 

[JohnChops]

Hm makes sense about being intimidated because when I have my chest facing girls I even know they get closed off and do not look me in the eyes or anything. Then when I withdraw they look at me and open up.

Interesting. The power of body language.

 

[sportguy]

I've been watching some Joshua Pellicer videos (he wrote Tao of Badass). One of the things he says is that you can be blown out because you face the woman directly with your body (with your chest). He says this communicates neediness.

I assume he's talking about cold approach situations here. I don't think he's trying to say you should never, ever face a woman? Or maybe he is, I don't know.

Anyway, this is I guess the same type of body language stuff like lean away from her, deliver an opener over the shoulder, don't lean in to her, etc. I don't know, I can see where not facing her might give you a slight aura of being cool. But I doubt very much that a woman is going to accept or reject you solely on something this subtle or trivial. I've always thought that deliberately facing away from a woman while interacting with her seemed a little asinine, but what do I know? What do you guys think?

What I think is if your going to worry about that, than what other things are you going to worry about?

It honestly doesn't matter man, if your confident, it will show in your body language and you won't need to think about it.

Stop worrying about the littlest things, relax and have fun. That's how you will be most successful.

And don't forget maybe that is what he noticed works for him, but different things work for different people. I can't stress this enough.

 

[VladPatton]

I still don't believe this body language theory and take it it with a certain amount of büllṣhit. More developed than our verbal communication? Fück-to-the-hell-no! I disagree fully. I think it has it's place when questioning guilty criminals in a dark lit room, but don't tell me some 20 year old girl is a natural master body language reader and will shoot down a well versed guy who talked over 300 panties off of women because his shoulder was 10 degrees short of 90 when talking to her.

On a percentage rating I would say it's about 25% of your total persona. If you are dead-as-balls-on with your body language and sound like Goofy when you open your cakehole, you're not going to make a good impression. It's a balance of everything (looks, body language, facial expression, speech) that gets the job done.

 

[zekko]

Upon reviewing further, apparently this is specifically about the cold approach. Pellicer says that once the girl warms up to you, then you can turn to face her with your chest.

I agree it makes some sense in regard to intimidation. I was thinking more in terms of attraction. I don't really see how facing the girl is needy. To me, facing her directly seems more bold and confident, as opposed to sidling up to her so you don't spook her. Also, I always thought that if a girl was a little intimidated by you that was a good thing.

Anyway, I'm not one to put too much stock in this sort of thing. I tend to just go with whatever feels natural without thinking about it. But I do find it interesting.