F*** China!

[Crazy Asian]

the chinese CAN make good high quality products, but they make more money by selling lots of crappy products. Would you buy a high quality pen for $10 or a cheap one for 10 cents? China's target are the little things that we need lots of.

and true that labor regulations there are sh1t. But they are rapidly changing.
but did you know that the chinese kicked america's @ss in 2 wars?

 

[ketostix]

Read Consumer Reports. American products generally fall between Japanese/Euro and Chinese products in quality.

I don't give Consumer Reports that much creedence. Maybe CR is the jews you're talking about? But what American products are we talking about, there's hardly any left? They actually say American cars are more reliable than European generally. Anyway, I don't give them much creedance. I site the example of a Chrysler/Mitsubishi being made in the same factory with the same workers, essentially the same model platform and parts, yet they ranked the Mitsubishi much higher in reliability. This demonstrates conclusively that it's due to perception and not fact.

So, although agreed that Chinese products generally have the lowest quality right now - they are so ridiculously cheap that they have higher value for their price. Meanwhile, American products are just way too overpriced to justify their slightly higher quality.

What I'm saying is Chinese products aren't really that cheap and American products aren't all that more expensive. The reduced production cost savings are not all being past on to the consumer. There's a lot of hidden costs too that I mentioned. I'm saying in the long run it's economic fallacy to think the Average American is benefiting over all.

Unions hogtie industry with red tape. A little workers' protection is fine, but it has just gone to ridiculous extremes.

I just disagree that Unions overall were overly hogtie with redtape and causing more harm than good. All they did was bargain, they didn't have that kind of power. Most of the redtape was coming from the government. If any thing government regulations and afirmative Action was more of the problem. There was some good government regulation and some bad, just like there was good and bad to unions, but neither was the reason for the exodus to China.

Well, the irony here is that as China moves away from Communism more towards natural capitalism, liberal Jews are turning this country more Communist.

Well I'm not so sure natural capitalism is the panacea. While china economical is practicing capitalism, they're still as communist as ever.

And as we become mass consumers, it creates a demand for mass producers. But if we can't fufill that demand competently, someone else will. So, these role-reversals are causing the economic reversal that PB is noticing.

Se this is the fallacy. We could meet are consumer demand plus export demand. We were doing it before. But mostly because of stupidity, short-sidedness, greed, and pure cutting off your nose to spite your face, i.e., the typical american is jealous of their fellow americans' jobs, and an unfounded dislike for his own countries products, etc., that we don't do this.

Remember, the US has actually already economically collapsed. We are $10 trillion in debt. China actually has a surplus. So, although we are living far higher lifestyles than them - in reality we are in deeper poverty because it's all based off hot checks we call the US dollar. You think the housing bubble is bad? One thing no one wants to talk about is our CURRENCY BUBBLE. :nervous:

And my point is this is the result and the hidden cost coming into view of all those "cheap" chinese goods.

 

[ketostix]

the chinese CAN make good high quality products, but they make more money by selling lots of crappy products. Would you buy a high quality pen for $10 or a cheap one for 10 cents? China's target are the little things that we need lots of.

Who cares what China could make? The point is were not getting things at the cost of 10 cents on the dollar. It's more like the American product is $1.20 or so and the less safe/lower quality Chinese made product is $1.00. That 20 percent savings or what ever minor amount is made up in lost revenues that went to higher profits, money that went to china and lost American jobs. There was little or no net gain in the end result.

and true that labor regulations there are sh1t. But they are rapidly changing.
but did you know that the chinese kicked america's @ss in 2 wars?

This seems to indicate a ethnic-bias. Even though they treat their own people like sh!t, you're wanting them to win wars. What two wars did they win? Korea? No it was a stand still and they lost half of Korea. And what was the result of their partial victory? Would you rather live in North or South Korea? Vietnam? You could say they won that one, simply because we withdrew, but they didn't it at a very higher cost in losses. And what was the result? The communist killed over a million people. And now it's just recently recovering from communism. Some win huh? Why would you champion China kicking America's ass? Maybe some people should go live in China if that's where their allegiance is.

 

[ready123]

The reduced production cost savings are not all being past on to the consumer. There's a lot of hidden costs too that I mentioned. I'm saying in the long run it's economic fallacy to think the Average American is benefiting over all.

The savings don't go to China either though. The money saved goes back to the corporations so I don't think China is to blame for the greed of business owners.

I called up Sallie Mae yesterday and the line automatically routed me to India where they didn't know wtf I was talking about. I'm not gonna make a fvck India thread because Sallie mae is outsourcing their customer service to save a buck. that's misdirected and pointless

all the talk about American vs imported products ignores the fact that many of the made in China products are not designed by Chinese. they're designed by American engineers, manufactured over there for cheap, and then sent back here to populate the stores. this is not the same as comparing American and imported products - it's not a Ford vs Hyundai, RCA vs LG, etc. it's outsourced manufacturing, the product is still American. so if you wanna return a thermometer to sht on China, their workers already got paid

 

[ketostix]

The savings don't go to China either though. The money saved goes back to the corporations so I don't think China is to blame for the greed of business owners.

American money goes to China. They're not doing it for free and at their expense.

I called up Sallie Mae yesterday and the line automatically routed me to India where they didn't know wtf I was talking about. I'm not gonna make a fvck India thread because Sallie mae is outsourcing their customer service to save a buck. that's misdirected and pointless

all the talk about American vs imported products ignores the fact that many of the made in China products are not designed by Chinese. they're designed by American engineers, manufactured over there for cheap, and then sent back here to populate the stores. this is not the same as comparing American and imported products - it's not a Ford vs Hyundai, RCA vs LG, etc. it's outsourced manufacturing, the product is still American.

I clearly said that it's not just China's fault, China is just acting in its interest, and that blame goes all around, blame to the America government, businesses and consumers, and just as whatever China does with it's citizens is their fault. They outsopurce a lot of engineering too. And even if something is designed in America thats just one small part and doesn't make it American made. It's still actually manufactured in China with a loss of american jobs, and the factory can cut corners and not fully follow the design parameters.

so if you wanna return a thermometer to sht on China, their workers already got paid

It's not about sh!tting on China, it's about all the other things mentioned. And if enough consumers return a Chinese product and purchase an American made one, trust me all the people involved with the China product including china would feel it soon enough.

 

[wayword]

and true that labor regulations there are sh1t. But they are rapidly changing.
but did you know that the chinese kicked america's @ss in 2 wars?

Uh, what 2 wars were that?

China has had a horrific battlefield record for the last 2 centuries. They've gotten their ass kicked by every foreign bully in town from the British to the Japanese. And had to beg the US to bail them out in WWII, remember? And in fact, they have always shied away from fighting historically.

Sure, everyone wins a few battles, but China has long suppressed its martial culture as threats to their throne. Private citizens have not even been allowed to own guns for almost a century now.

Although they have improved their defense now, they are still somewhat of a paper tiger. The US builds them up as a strawman to justify increased defense spending. And China allows this overhype to help serve as a deterrent to foreign aggression. But in reality, I believe they would still fare very poorly in conventional warfare due to their long history of demilitarized culture. Most of their unarmed populace are just farmers or factory workers, not fighters.