Experiences with post-epiphany women

[TonyTenner]

From browsing these forums the advice seems to be a universal STEER clear. I'm 37, considering an LTR with a 34 y/o. I would say a HB8. But since been red-pilled I now worry that I'm the "beta in waiting". We've had issues but now that I constantly draw boundaries and have twice walked away, she's cool.

What are yer experiences with post epiphany women. Is it really a whole-sale "stay clear"?

 

[TonyTenner]

I've never been married btw. Couple of LTRs but nothing beyond a couple of years. Have generally been happy been single but am considering, for first time, properly settling down and having a kid.

 

[SW15]

I'm 37 as well, never married and no kids. As much as there is talk that men in their mid to late 30s can date substantial younger women and are massively in demand, real life doesn't always live up to the hype. I would say that the majority of men in their mid to late 30s end up in relationships with women who are close to their age, who are the post-epiphany women. My understand is that post epiphany women are roughly 28-35.

Much of it depends upon how you are meeting women. If your initial interactions are with women behind an electronic screen on a swipe app, you're not likely to get a substantially younger girlfriend. First, many women show their cultural programming and limit the age ranges of who they see on swipe apps, which often prevents big age gaps. Then, due to a surplus of men on swipe apps, women can be more hypergamous on swipe apps than they are in real life because they artificially inflate their value on swipe apps. It's not unusual to see a 34 year old "5" woman who is mostly ignored at bars, the grocery store, and other non-bar venues to have a swipe queue of hundreds of men. This example 34 year old will be able to get a 35-37 year old man on apps, and she'll even be pursued by younger men. Whereas if she were not swiping, she'd be lucky to get any attention from any under 40 men. Thr thirst is worse than any of us can imagine on the swipe apps.

If you're 37 and considering an LTR with a solidly above average 34 year old, that might be feasible. If she's an 8 being fit and childless, it is likely worth pursuing. Realize that all relationships are transient. She might be worthy of an LTR and there's a chance you could get frequent sex out of it, but it would probably dissipate in 2-5 years. If you want to have a kid, realize that whoever you choose to have kids with, it is more likely than not that you won't be in a relationship with her by the time the kid or kids you have with her turn 18.

 

[TonyTenner]

I'm 37 as well, never married and no kids. As much as there is talk that men in their mid to late 30s can date substantial younger women and are massively in demand, real life doesn't always live up to the hype. I would say that the majority of men in their mid to late 30s end up in relationships with women who are close to their age, who are the post-epiphany women. My understand is that post epiphany women are roughly 28-35.

Much of it depends upon how you are meeting women. If your initial interactions are with women behind an electronic screen on a swipe app, you're not likely to get a substantially younger girlfriend. First, many women show their cultural programming and limit the age ranges of who they see on swipe apps, which often prevents big age gaps. Then, due to a surplus of men on swipe apps, women can be more hypergamous on swipe apps than they are in real life because they artificially inflate their value on swipe apps. It's not unusual to see a 34 year old "5" woman who is mostly ignored at bars, the grocery store, and other non-bar venues to have a swipe queue of hundreds of men. This example 34 year old will be able to get a 35-37 year old man on apps, and she'll even be pursued by younger men. Whereas if she were not swiping, she'd be lucky to get any attention from any under 40 men. Thr thirst is worse than any of us can imagine on the swipe apps.

Agree mostly with this. Im on the apps and have matched with 25 year olds but mostly they are in the 30 - 33 range. With the lockdown/bar situation its apps for the foreseeable future.

If you're 37 and considering an LTR with a solidly above average 34 year old, that might be feasible. If she's an 8 being fit and childless, it is likely worth pursuing. Realize that all relationships are transient. She might be worthy of an LTR and there's a chance you could get frequent sex out of it, but it would probably dissipate in 2-5 years. If you want to have a kid, realize that whoever you choose to have kids with, it is more likely than not that you won't be in a relationship with her by the time the kid or kids you have with her turn 18.

Why do you say 1/ sex will dissipate within 2-5 years and 2/ it won't last even with a kid? Is this purely based on her age? I.e. if she was 26, would you be less sure this will happen?

 

[SW15]

Agree mostly with this. Im on the apps and have matched with 25 year olds but mostly they are in the 30 - 33 range. With the lockdown/bar situation its apps for the foreseeable future.

As a 37 year old, matching on apps with 30-33 year olds is good. It doesn't have to be apps for the forseeable future. Realize that the mating environment is likely to be difficult until herd immunity or a vaccine. I'm thinking 2022 or so.

Most men think about meeting women either through apps or at bars. Very few men implement approaching at non-bar venues. It's ideal to put yourself in social scenarios that are female friendly, some of which are non-bar venues. With COVID, these female friendly activities are going to be more difficult to come by.

The grocery store is going to be a more difficult place to approaches, especially with the bullshiit mask thing. While we can argue about masks from a health standpoint, masks from a pickup standpoint make in-person approaching at grocery stores more difficult. One key factor in pickup is reading body langauge to prevent bad approaches that go nowhere. The eye contact and smile manuever at grocery stores is helpful. With masks, you can't see if you're getting a warm receptive smile to approach. You can still do eye contact and see if you get strong eye contact reciprocated. It's less than ideal though. I'm not sure how psyched I'd be to do grocery store approaching at this point.

The apps are challenging too. Where will you host first dates now that bars are either closed or considered high risk zones? You could invite women over to your place for the first date, which I think is the best manuever in a bad situation, but a lot of women will put up resistance to it, creating a lot of drama and a need to source more prospects.

Why do you say 1/ sex will dissipate within 2-5 years and 2/ it won't last even with a kid? Is this purely based on her age? I.e. if she was 26, would you be less sure this will happen?

It's just the nature of monogamous relationships. Monogamous relationships tend to have a shelf time of 2-5 years of being good at best. If you go beyond 5 years and are still having sex on at least 2 days per week most weeks, realize that you're beating the odds.

It actually doesn't matter if you are 37 and starting with a 34 year old vs starting with a 26 year old. I'd recommend starting with a 26 year old over a 34 year if both are fit and childless and reasonably close on looks. You are likely to retain attraction to a 26 year old for a longer period of time. The 26 year old is likely to stay in good shape for longer too. Neither option is likely to last, but you might get a longer shelf life out of the 26 year old.

Realize that longer term relationships are prone to infidelity due to boredom. It's difficult to keep excitement going for more than a few years. It's ideal to get out before the boredom sets in, and then the infidelity risk increases. Women have more options for stepping out than ever.

If you get married, realize that there's an 80% chance of AT LEAST of the following things happening to you...
1. Divorce
2. Affair
3. An ongoing but interminable relationship that continues on based upon inertia and societal pressures (ie staying together for the child, the family, etc). This relationship will lack passion and isn't empotionally gratifying.

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

I've never been married btw. Couple of LTRs but nothing beyond a couple of years. Have generally been happy been single but am considering, for first time, properly settling down and having a kid.

If you are thinking about getting married and having children, definitely read the thread below.

Also, some things to look for:

Parents still married
She respects her father
Low N count
Small or no presence on social media
Her friends aren’t slvts
Seems to be emotionally balanced
Looks and acts feminine
No sense of entitlement
1 1/2 to 2 points lower SMV than you
Her mother respects her father

Why does she turn down sex?

When I was married, my ex-wife frequently said "no" to sex. It could be due to a variety of reasons, which I am sure most of you have seen or heard. It could include... "I'm tired" "On the rag" "Just went to the gym" "Stinky" "They could hear us" "We could get caught" Funny story, I worked in...

www.sosuave.net

-Augustus-

 

[SW15]

Parents still married
She respects her father
Low N count
Small or no presence on social media
Her friends aren’t slvts
Seems to be emotionally balanced
Looks and acts feminine
No sense of entitlement
1 1/2 to 2 points lower SMV than you
Her mother respects her father

If I think about 28-36 year old women (post epiphany) in U.S. metropolitan areas of 1 million people or more, very few would fit all of those. Looks feminine would probably be the easiest one of women in those metros to accomplish. Most have a presence on personal social media platforms such as Instagram, Snapchat, and Facebook to a lesser degree. I'll exclude LinkedIn because that is necessary for white collar work.

Notch counts would vary a fair amount in this cohort. The only hope of a low notch counts among the 28-36 year olds in larger metros is an early in life boyfriend that lasted 7-10 years. If a woman went to college and was single during a portion of college, she'll have put up a decent notch count. If she's used swipe apps for an extended amount of time since 2012, she will have had the opportunity to put up some notches, though most of her in-person interactions on swipe apps will have been discarded with no sex after 1-2 dates due to her extreme fussiness from having hundreds of options in the queue.

The 28-36 year old cohort is all Millennials, a generation that is hugely entitled. A lot of this cohort also observed their Baby Boomer parents getting divorced in the 1990s and early 2000s. She likely does not have a great dynamic with her father, and her parents probably barely tolerate each other. There might be uncomfortable step parent situations too.

Many of these women are often women with bachelor's degrees or more who are career focused and not focused on being a good longer term girlfriend or wife.

Hinge and Bumble in larger metros are havens for uppity white women who are 28-36, never married, no children, careerist, etc. In the real world, they can be found in nicer gym chains (think Lifetime Athletic or higher; 24 Hour and LA Fitness are only around $30/month and not that exclusive), nice gym studios (think SoulCycle, OrangeTheory, or Title Boxing as examples), or better than average grocery stores (Whole Foods would be the classic example, but possible at Trader Joe's/Sprouts).

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

If I think about 28-36 year old women (post epiphany) in U.S. metropolitan areas of 1 million people or more, very few would fit all of those. Looks feminine would probably be the easiest one of women in those metros to accomplish. Most have a presence on personal social media platforms such as Instagram, Snapchat, and Facebook to a lesser degree. I'll exclude LinkedIn because that is necessary for white collar work.

Notch counts would vary a fair amount in this cohort. The only hope of a low notch counts among the 28-36 year olds in larger metros is an early in life boyfriend that lasted 7-10 years. If a woman went to college and was single during a portion of college, she'll have put up a decent notch count. If she's used swipe apps for an extended amount of time since 2012, she will have had the opportunity to put up some notches, though most of her in-person interactions on swipe apps will have been discarded with no sex after 1-2 dates due to her extreme fussiness from having hundreds of options in the queue.

The 28-36 year old cohort is all Millennials, a generation that is hugely entitled. A lot of this cohort also observed their Baby Boomer parents getting divorced in the 1990s and early 2000s. She likely does not have a great dynamic with her father, and her parents probably barely tolerate each other. There might be uncomfortable step parent situations too.

Many of these women are often women with bachelor's degrees or more who are career focused and not focused on being a good longer term girlfriend or wife.

Hinge and Bumble in larger metros are havens for uppity white women who are 28-36, never married, no children, careerist, etc. In the real world, they can be found in nicer gym chains (think Lifetime Athletic or higher; 24 Hour and LA Fitness are only around $30/month and not that exclusive), nice gym studios (think SoulCycle, OrangeTheory, or Title Boxing as examples), or better than average grocery stores (Whole Foods would be the classic example, but possible at Trader Joe's/Sprouts).

Agreed, it really would be like trying to find a unicorn in that age group. Perhaps a man might have better luck looking outside of a metro area.

Realistically though, it would probably be a choice of either staying single or taking a chance on wifeing up a woman who met some of the above criteria. And if a guy decides on the latter of the two options he should do everything he can to prepare himself from being azz raped in a potential divorce scenario.

-Augustus

 

[SW15]

Agreed, it really would be like trying to find a unicorn in that age group. Perhaps a man might have better luck looking outside of a metro area.

If you're considering just the post epiphany 28-36 year old group of women, a lot of them are in the larger metropolitan areas. Most people in smaller areas (less than 100,000 population) partner off pretty early in life. There might be options in some of the midsized metro areas (100,000 - 999,999). Some of the people I've known that have had the fewest frustrations in mating in the United States lived in midsized metros. Most of them grew up in that midsized metro and stayed rooted in that midsized metro, maybe with the exception of going away for 4 years of college. There's not a lot of external migration to midsized metros, except from smaller towns in that same state or region. The 1 million+ metro areas have weak social circles and a lot of transplants, which often makes for a less gratifying experience. Women, especially post epiphany women, are often highly hypergamous in the larger metros, because they can be. In a larger metro with weak social circles, there is more use of swipe apps, which artificially inflate women's market value. A 34 year old woman who is a "5" barely getting any attention in the real world is getting pursued on swipe apps like a 22 year old "9" female celebrity would get pursued in real life in terms of quantity.

Realistically though, it would probably be a choice of either staying single or taking a chance on wifeing up a woman who met some of the above criteria. And if a guy decides on the latter of the two options he should do everything he can to prepare himself from being azz raped in a potential divorce scenario.

The path chosen should be to stay single and have either casual flings or longer term relationships of 1-5 years that do not result in marriage or a pregnancy.

 

[Means1988]

I’m 30.
I have 1 kid, 4 year old boy. Blessed with the fact he is healthy (knock on wood), and overall a great kid. Me and his mother do not talk, we split 50/50 from time with the kid, no child support, and 50/50 expenses for the kid such as daycare, or any sport activities. It was a struggle to get to that point, but through courts, and arguements I always stood my ground.

Now I work from home, have my own business so I get what I put into it. I actually enjoy raising my kid when he is with me, and when he is not, I get to enjoy “ me time” rather it’s sleeping, or going to the bar, or hooking up with someone.
Only one female has called me out on it when she found out I have a kid. She said “you have your own business, and you have a son, so you have a purpose in life”... which stuck out how she said it.

So now with women, all ages, and colors, and looks, I do not need a woman to have a “kid” with, or the blue pill “happy wife happy life” family crap. My mind is preoccupied with making money, and taking care of my son when I do have him. Last thing I want to do is sit on an app and “swipe”.. it is stupid to me.

But my attitude has changed about women when I do go out. Anywhere I go, solo or with friends, I go just to have fun since I have a lot of things I already do as listed above. When women are around, my actions/attitude are completely different than they were prior to have a kid. To summarize these actions:

I have a kid, not sure if I want anymore.
I didn’t want a family with the mother of my child, why would with one that isn’t?
I don’t need a job, or a house, or a dollar from a woman.
I look how I look, and I can change it for better or worse.

What do I need a female for? To buy her drinks? To talk to her about nothing I find interesting?
We know what I need a female for. To have sex, and if we get a hotel for the weekend to let loose and have a good time.

25-30 year old chicks have actually started going out of their way for me when I show them pictures of my kid or videos.If he is with me these women come approach me as well by saying how “cute” my kid is. One night a rich chick came in a brand new suburban with “her guy friend”, passed out drunk in her passenger seat as I was walking out of a pizza place with my kid. She came to get pizza. Saw my kid, started going crazy over him, and asked if it would be ok to give met her number if Id like to hang out with her. I said sure.


I must say, I started sexual experiences from a very early age, and dating/ONS has got boring for me so I don’t even try. That woman is not worth the effort. My life style is good, I go to sleep clear headed. My older friends however, have been telling me that eventually I’ll want to grow old with someone since this won’t last forever.

Which does make a lot of sense. Eventually unless filthy rich, you will have to find someone to settle down with but I’m a firm believer as we age we will become more towards beta naturally and it’s better to let your time run as much as you can before that occurs.