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European Army

Spaz

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Russia, France, Germany and UK should ideally create one.

All the above countries can leverage on their industrial military infrastructure thereby reducing R&D and being a coherent political/military force to better counter China's military rise.
 

Who Dares Win

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Nations with conflicting interests cant build a common army, even before language and command chain problems they simply lack a common goal.

The whole concept of european army makes no sense since no way a french officer would take orders from an english one and the other way around, let alone a german from an polish.

In order for this to happen Europe should integrate politically and economically with citizens voting for the european commission directly and with the national bonds abolished and substituted from european bonds, if it works in 50 yrs we could talk about a common army.
 

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Nations with conflicting interests cant build a common army, even before language and command chain problems they simply lack a common goal.

The whole concept of european army makes no sense since no way a french officer would take orders from an english one and the other way around, let alone a german from an polish.

In order for this to happen Europe should integrate politically and economically with citizens voting for the european commission directly and with the national bonds abolished and substituted from european bonds, if it works in 50 yrs we could talk about a common army.
If it's integrating their current national armies, then it's as you said.

But if they were 2 build up from scratch, taking in new recruits who's never been in an army, from various countries and inculcate new ideologies, it's then possible.
 

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By "inculcate new ideologies" you mean, change their value system to meet the desires of the Globalists.

This is what Macron, Merkel and others have in mind for you. To engineer your value system to their benefit.
Doesn't matter what the ideology is. It could be communism, globalism, socialism, tribalism, nationalism. I don't really care. All these idealism will correct themselves at the proper time.

I do however see value in having a European army integrating with the Russians.

In 20 to 30 years from now China will likely supercede America economically. The world has to be ready if she decides to expand her borders and starts absorbing Siberia..
 

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If it's integrating their current national armies, then it's as you said.

But if they were 2 build up from scratch, taking in new recruits who's never been in an army, from various countries and inculcate new ideologies, it's then possible.
Thats basically what they are doing importing military aged africans and middle easterns in europe, after all an army made of europeans would never raise weapons against civilians in case of revolt against the new eurosoviet.
 

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Spaz

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Thats basically what they are doing importing military aged africans and middle easterns in europe, after all an army made of europeans would never raise weapons against civilians in case of revolt against the new eurosoviet.
True. No European will raise weapons against civilians. They've had enough wars throughout the centuries and lost many millions.

However, from a strategic point, would it not be better to have such an army as a bulwark against China?

Hypothetically, the US can't be counted on forever to protect Europe...
 

Who Dares Win

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True. No European will raise weapons against civilians. They've had enough wars throughout the centuries and lost many millions.

However, from a strategic point, would it not be better to have such an army as a bulwark against China?

Hypothetically, the US can't be counted on forever to protect Europe...
I find very unlike for a chinese invasion of europe to happen when russia (a nuclear power) stands on the way, its as believable as the iranian missiles that threath europe so nato needs missiles on the lines with russia.

An european army is needed for the ruling class to bend countries that dont obey and economic sanctions no longer work, we saw in greece what happens when you obey to europe, they first give you something you cant afford then demand payment back with interest.

Its funny btw that these talks about an european army happen anytime populists parties demanding more democracy and less control gain votes.
 

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I find very unlike for a chinese invasion of europe to happen when russia (a nuclear power) stands on the way, its as believable as the iranian missiles that threath europe so nato needs missiles on the lines with russia.

An european army is needed for the ruling class to bend countries that dont obey and economic sanctions no longer work, we saw in greece what happens when you obey to europe, they first give you something you cant afford then demand payment back with interest.

Its funny btw that these talks about an european army happen anytime populists parties demanding more democracy and less control gain votes.
Not caring abt european politics.

More towards military insights and strategies.

Wars is always in the end abt resources.

China and Japan always had an eye on Siberia.

Japan invaded it once, China has skirmishes with Russia there.

In 30 years time, given the momentum, a lot can change.

Not too long ago everyone in Beijing were cycling ugly looking bikes...
 

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Not caring abt european politics.

More towards military insights and strategies.

Wars is always in the end abt resources.

China and Japan always had an eye on Siberia.

Japan invaded it once, China has skirmishes with Russia there.

In 30 years time, given the momentum, a lot can change.

Not too long ago everyone in Beijing were cycling ugly looking bikes...
Military power, economical power and politics walk togheter holding hands...do you think that the US sit in any peace table around the globe cause they are funny to sit nearby at meetings?

Ask yourself why someone in the middle east kills 1000 people and get bombed while someone else in asia displace a milion and no one says anything.

Agree on the resourches point thats why no further european integration may happen now, you have both france and italy trying to claim libian oil, the recent meeting in sicily with all the big players got deserted from the french president.
 

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I agree with Danger and Who Dares Win. It's impractical to create a military force between sovereign nations for all of the reasons stated above.

It's practical to have an alliance unifying different military forces, like NATO, which (in my opinion) has worked out all right.

And in the event of an aggressive invasion, alliances get formed pretty quickly, like they did with the Allies and the USSR in WW2, which otherwise would have had nothing to do with each other. There's no need to train a cross-nation military force of that magnitude in peacetime. Everyone just gets together and whoever has the best technology gets to boss around the others.
 

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yeah its called globalism and its a ****ty idea. why dont we just combine powers with mexico while we are at it.
 
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Thats basically what they are doing importing military aged africans and middle easterns in europe, after all an army made of europeans would never raise weapons against civilians in case of revolt against the new eurosoviet.
This is an interesting thing to say.

The Tiananmen Square massacre was only accomplished by bringing in troops from an outer province of China and they didn’t speak mandarin.

Originally the Chinese generals would not fire on the students so their government executed the generals and brought in troops that didn’t speak the language to fire in the students.

Due to survival drives, many of the “civilians” will side with who they think will win. So yes, civilians will be killed (executed) due to ideologies.
This bears out in history.

China can outfit and put into the field over two million soldiers. Their size is only second to India. European theater warfare is armor. The type99 Chinese tanks are top notch battle tanks with chemical, biological and nuclear capabilities.

This is not a skirmish. The armies of Europe and Russia will need to be softened up with nukes. And the reverse is also true.

Europe by itself without Russia is finished. Even if combined. This is a logistical problem. Not an arms problem. Anyone who doesn’t think that any nuclear power in Europe won’t launch is whistling past the grave yard. This is a zero sum scenario.
 

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China's weakness has always been the ability to move those troops out of China. They are certainly working on it, having just built their first aircraft carrier, but the ability to strike anywhere in the world with overwhelming force is a long way from reality, at least in regard to conventional troop movement. By contrast, US airborne units, which are regular army and not special forces, boast the ability to put boots on the ground anywhere in the world in 48 hours.

Did you see that China just claimed to have developed quantum radar to see stealth aircraft? It is probably just an elaborate lie.

https://www.techspot.com/amp/news/77448-china-claims-has-developed-quantum-radar-can-detect.html
 

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Did you see that China just claimed to have developed quantum radar to see stealth aircraft? It is probably just an elaborate lie.

https://www.techspot.com/amp/news/77448-china-claims-has-developed-quantum-radar-can-detect.html
I do know that they acquired a crashed B2 stealth bomber. I believe they bought it from Syria. So you know Russia also got a foot look at it. Our satalites got a picture of it in China on the ground. The only missing B2 we had.

Eventually it will happen. And after that, it will be old tech.

I don’t think Russia or China have the ability to deploy well or even anyone one in Europe. The second you mass troops and equipment they get hit with a tactical nuke.
The only way to survive would be an Asymetrical battlefield. I wouldn’t waste troops until there’s a zero sum outcome.

Delivering airborne has inherent risks of loosing them before they are on the ground. I would save them and not deploy.
Being in North America has its advantages. China’s conquest of south east Asia should be more of a concern.
 

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Every once in a while, we sail a destroyer right through those sand humps they made in the South China Sea. That has got to be a tense boat to be on. They probably won't be fired upon, but if so it could be WW3.
 

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I do know that they acquired a crashed B2 stealth bomber. I believe they bought it from Syria. So you know Russia also got a foot look at it. Our satalites got a picture of it in China on the ground. The only missing B2 we had.

Eventually it will happen. And after that, it will be old tech.

I don’t think Russia or China have the ability to deploy well or even anyone one in Europe. The second you mass troops and equipment they get hit with a tactical nuke.
The only way to survive would be an Asymetrical battlefield. I wouldn’t waste troops until there’s a zero sum outcome.

Delivering airborne has inherent risks of loosing them before they are on the ground. I would save them and not deploy.
Being in North America has its advantages. China’s conquest of south east Asia should be more of a concern.
I recall some simulatin they did in the 80s about the soviets invading western europe, 90% of the cases involved russia taking over within a week.

Now the eastern countries are no longer part of the warsaw alliance yet they except for poland are basically empty boxes for the russians to take, plus I wouldnt trust european public opinion to support their troops to go free eastern europe with the risk of having a backlash in their countries.

Its not so simple, the us are superior to anyone when it comes of sea control but in the eurasia mainland its russia the top player.
 

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Russia, France, Germany and UK should ideally create one.
Ever heard of NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization)? It's basically a military alliance between North America (US, Canada) and most of Europe. Russia is not a member and I don't think they'll become a member anytime soon, but they're a Partnership for Peace member.

What the Partnership for Peace program does:
NATO builds relationships with partners through military-to-military cooperation on training, exercises, disaster planning and response, science and environmental issues, professionalization, policy planning, and relations with civilian government.
I doubt China wants to fvck with any part of NATO.
 

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We're talking of hypothetical possibilities here that's taking into account of hypothetical events that could unfold in perhaps 20-30 years from now.

And how would Europe best respond towards it by taking a glimpse into a future that's narrated towards a supposedly expansionist China.

With the western half of China currently uninhabitable or near uninhabitable, Siberia is looking very much like a land without people for people without land...

Let's not forget the supposedly untapped natural resources there to propel China as the premier Superpower and their cultural - mindset. Every major cultural event is tied with being more prosperous, more richer, more everything..for a thousand years or more.

Base the discussion or projection from there.

The Chinese might just do the same to Siberia with what the Russians did in the Ukraine - absorbing Crimea.

I believe the Russians themselves would love to see an European army.
 
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