Epic Fail w/ a 10 "not ready to date" & LJBF situation - Tell me what you think.

[rocket87]

Met this total babe. I don't use 10 lightly when I rank girls. This girl is seriously gorgeous. Absolutely stunning. By far the most attractive girl that's ever crossed my "game" path in the past 5 years. She is basically the twin of Alessandra Ambrosio, google the name if you don't know who that is.


Monday: I've seen this girl workout at my gym for 4-6 months; she generally has a friend with her which makes things harder for gym game. Anyway, one day I find myself, by complete chance, working out next to her on a light-intensity machine. She was bored. There's no way I'm gonna give up this opportunity.

I open her completely indirectly and it was flawless. It wasn't canned, it was completely situational, rooted, and relevant. It was GENUINE. There were MANY IOIs from her. I negged her a bunch; despite this girl being a 10, my game was smooth, natural, and seemingly successful.

Before I know it, maybe 10 minutes into the convo, she's telling me **** like "Wow... you seriously have the coolest life ever.. How do you get away with that?" and "I wish I could travel as much as you do but I don't have nearly as much time and money with my full time job" and just general interest/amazement at my energetic, diverse, FUN life.

Again, everything I told her and was legit. I was being myself and not caving into her beauty. I made her qualify herself and I wasn't just clamming away at how peachy everything was. I was lightly kinoing her as much as appropriate while on the machine.

I told her straight up something like "I bet you get this all the time - random guys talking to you huh" to clear out any possibility of her thinking this is some staged pickup (I've personally seen her get hit on by at *least* 10 different guys - I didn't tell her that) It was somewhat of a compliment, but of course I wasn't going to directly compliment her just yet. She laughed and told me how guys talk to her all the time and how she just pretends she's interested, and then ****-tested me to see if that's what I was doing. I played it off well and called her out on it. Just as I'd planned, perfect!

Anywho, with even more IOIs, negging, teasing, and playful banter, she shows much interest in a day 2 and she puts her number in my phone. I tell her I'm unavailable this and that day, but I could do Wednesday. She agrees and reinforces how "boring" she is (has nothing planned ever) and that wednesday would be great.

Tues: I call to confirm the day 2 and she answers right away - More playful banter and fun on the phone. 5-6 min phone call. I arrange for her to drop her car at my place, and then to go grab some food at a totally casual local restaurant. She is happy to do so, and there were even more IOIs on the phone as she was seemingly willing to do whatever to make the day 2 happen (she was going to skip working out so that we could go earlier.. and I told her no I workout every day at that time and I thought you did too? etc.)

Weds: She texts me 3-4 hrs before the "date" and says "hey I'm actually coming from home instead of work, can I just meet you at the restaurant at __:___, does that work for you?" I was a bit alarmed, since that had totally thrown off the plan of getting her at my place for a few mins before/after the day2. It wasn't really a legit excuse, since she still could have come to my place first prior to us travelling together to the restaurant. I kept thinking buyers remorse in my head, but I couldn't figure out why. I hadn't been needy.. I made her fit in my busy schedule, and I didn't acknowledge/slave to her looks whatsoever. Plus she showed all those IOIs. I shrugged it off and told her that it's cool (and teased her a bit for it). I'd rather her be comfortable.

We both arrive one after another, and she jumps to hug me right when I get in the door (I had thought about whether or not she'd be weird with a hug.. but she ran up and hugged me so fast that I didn't even get a chance to act) - I respond with a side/hug thing and say Hi, etc. We sit down almost immediately and chat away about our days, random ****. All sorts of great DHVs and more of making her qualify. Never an awkward moment or any strange convos came up. I framed it sexually as much as I could, which was difficult with us sitting across from each other at a dinner table. I was disagreeing/conversing with her on varying opinions and telling her about all the great **** I'm up to. Seemingly went awesome. Btw, we agreed to split the bill, with me "offering" to pay if she wanted to hit it up next time, and she declined to do that - so we split it.

After the restaurant, I took her outside and took her hand (she thought I was trying to shake her hand which was hilarious - so I gave her crap for that), I held her hand and walked her to her car for all of 15 seconds. She hugs me and says thanks and that she had a great time, the restaurant was so good and I'm glad we went, etc. I kiss her on the cheek (there was definitely not enough of a connection yet to make out/go for a direct kiss) and unleash 1 single compliment of "you're super cute" and she kinda hides behind her hair and says thanks all cute-style. She mentions something along the lines of "maybe I'll see you this weekend" and I tell her I'm busy friday but possibly available saturday, and to let me know. She tells me to text/call her.

Fri: To set something up over the weekend, involving her actually seeing my place and hanging out, I shoot her a text asking if her real life guitar skills are any good in guitar hero, and she responds with something like "Don't know from experience." Then, I text again offering a guitar hero duel the next day (Saturday). It was a great plan I'd thought.. to get her over, something fun and kinoesque to do with each other and to be playful, nothing serious, nothing commital, and most importantly totally informal and NOT "datish" ('formal dates' are the most cliche thing ever and I avoid them at all cost).

She responds... saying: "Unfortunately, I'm not as ready to date as I thought, but i'd be ok with being friends."

LOL

I'm thinking what the **** is this? Total left field comment. I try and look back at wtf happened, and the only thing I can almost see is possibly at dinner where she almost had this shield up - absolutely not a ***** shield but a "recently hurt shield."

I respond after some thought with 1 concise text, mentioning that I don't formally "date" in the first place, how it's cliche, and ending the text with "I'll seeya around friend " - in an attempt to mock the whole "friendship" idea. As expected, she doesn't respond back.


So, I've been trying to decipher where I ****ed this one up. Judging from my gut, I think she is legitimately out of a recent relationship (or in between one, etc.) This has only happened to me one other time in 5 years of DJ and the other time it was legit too - some girl figuring out her guy situation. But, on the other hand, I'm a huge believer in the fact that "No girl is a ***** or 'un-game-able,' and that it's never 'her fault.'"

I won't be communicating with her for 3-4 weeks, going to see if a freeze out works. Even then she isn't really worth my time since there was really nothing invested. other than her being extremely attractive, she didn't offer much to the table - so that is not special at all; but trying something in a few weeks won't hurt anybody. I'm sure I will see her at the gym many times before then, so I'll just have to ignore her or smile and keep walking. (Suggestions?)

I'd truly appreciate any feedback or ideas, or any similar happenings. Thanks in advance.

 

[ecko280]

You fail because you did not kiss close. If you went for a kiss close, you would have know right then and there if she was interested in you or not.

edit: Try to make the girl say "NO" to you. Always go for it until she says "NO!" or "STOP!"

 

[rocket87]

You fail because you did not kiss close.

There was no way of a full-on kiss close happening. The kiss on the cheek was even a stretch. I have a pretty good idea of kiss-closes and I generally time them within 15 minutes to 4 hours of time with a set, we were right around the 2 hour mark and I still had a bit of work to do.

If I full-on kiss closed her outside the restaurant, it would've totally broken the kino escalation ladder I was working at and been way the hell too early.

From my perspective, I don't think that could explain the entire situation; but I could be wrong.

 

[Real Talk]

You fail because you did not kiss close. If you went for a kiss close, you would have know right then and there if she was interested in you or not.

edit: Try to make the girl say "NO" to you. Always go for it until she says "NO!" or "STOP!"

I guess you could have gauged her interest sooner this way, but I don't think that's what he's asking.

Sometimes your game can be tight and everything can seem to be going right and it just don't pan out in terms of her interest. That's the inherit disadvantage with the whole old school, inviting-her-to-this-and-that-with-you dating routine when first meeting a girl: yeah, it shows initiative, but it also kind of shows that you are willing to jump through the hoops of planning and asking her to all this stuff without even knowing her that well, and qualifying her. Here's what I do:

I generally would do the first date much in the same way as you described and be myself and open, and definitely not playing any push/pull games so she's comfortable with talking to me, and staying sexual. But after that it's up to her to make the effort to initiate herself while I am planting similar seeds with other broads (This is when I'm single; I'm in an LTR right now). I didn't play any games in the date so there shouldn't be any apprehension on her side to contact me. If I get a lay the first night, great! but now I know this girl is more FB material than LTR and proceed accordingly. It minimizes time wasted on a single person, especially if for whatever reason she isn't feeling it.

Either way I would pursue other girls and just keep it moving. if she hits you up again great, if not then whatever. You didn't do any wrong here, its just that the asking to multiple dates thing, especially over the course of a couple days, can be hard to do without compromising your value. FWIW I don't think she'll be contacting you

good luck bro

 

[Real Talk]

Also, you seem to be using a lot of coined terms when talking about how you escalated, built rapport, etc. Maybe she wasn't comfortable with you yet. This might go against some of the preachings here, but imo sometimes its better to build rapport and comfort at the expense of escalating on the first date. If you read into what she told you as far as not being ready, it sounds like she wasn't comfortable with you yet, at least with the hand holding and cheek kissing stuff.

My current GF tells me she liked our first date because I was so laid back and just cracked jokes and talked sh*t and that things just felt right. I didn't really escalate sexually until the second date; just opened doors for her, had table manners, stuff you'd do to be polite. Our first date was a dance lesson so I guess that helped, haha

 

[rocket87]

it shows initiative, but it also kind of shows that you are willing to jump through the hoops of planning and asking her to all this stuff without even knowing her that well

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after that it's up to her to make the effort to initiate herself while I am planting similar seeds with other broads

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pursue other girls and just keep it moving. if she hits you up again great, if not then whatever

Thanks for your post man.

That's currently my best guess - what you first said - the fact that even though it seemed to go great, she could've been questioning my intentions as to why this random guy she just met 3 days ago is willing to dedicate the time to hang out with her. I definitely put thought into the timing prior to every move I made with her (asking her out, texting her, etc.) - I didn't want to seem to move in too close; yet I also wanted to be persistent and show her that I am interested in seeing what else she has to offer.

Maybe she is looking for a guy that appears as more of a catch. I could have done this by acting less available/flaking/delaying contact. However, that would've then broken the fact that I was being true to myself and my personality; so I don't know if that's something I should consider for next time I'm in this situation. The only possible resolution I could see here is that maybe next time, after a day 2, I'll call (not text) WITHOUT the intention of setting up any date - Cut myself off mid-call and say oh shoot someone is calling me I have to go, I'll call you back soon, and then delay calling back for a few days. But, again, this would require acting/games. She seemed more mature than average for her age, so I took the mature route of being straight with her. I texted her vs. calling for the day 3 was cause I knew she was at work at the time I decided to contact her. Perhaps calling for day 3s is a better bet in the future since it would be much harder to turn down over the phone.

I'll definitely not let this get in the way of anything pickup related. I actually am travelling out of the country for 2 weeks next week so that will occupy me, and allow a good amount of time for the freeze out. If she wasn't as hot as she is (and if everything else didn't go as well as it did), I wouldn't have posted at all and just kept on chugging.

 

[rocket87]

I don't think she'll be contacting you

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using a lot of coined terms when talking about how you escalated, built rapport, etc. Maybe she wasn't comfortable with you yet.

...

I didn't really escalate sexually until the second date

Yeah, I doubt she will as well; and I won't be waiting around for her of course. Her text being so abrupt is why it threw me off. But I definitely registered it as "You're great, but I am not interested in you."

I was extremely laid back during the dinner - cracking jokes, being myself, talking life/values/experiences. Very non-interview like. I've always been that way with girls and it's always resulted in very quick rapport-escalation. Like you (I'm presuming), doing it the natural way just feels right and forms an excellent, solid connection. The coined terms are just to relate to the pua crowd in an attempt to convey what I've been "taught" over the years.

By "sexual tension" I'm referring to very, very light innuendos and "that's what she saids" (to which she responded back with things like "that IS definitely what she said" followed by her laughing). If anything, I may not have been sexual enough.

 

[Pimp-sicle]

Thanks for your post man.

That's currently my best guess - what you first said - the fact that even though it seemed to go great, she could've been questioning my intentions as to why this random guy she just met 3 days ago is willing to dedicate the time to hang out with her. I definitely put thought into the timing prior to every move I made with her (asking her out, texting her, etc.) - I didn't want to seem to move in too close; yet I also wanted to be persistent and show her that I am interested in seeing what else she has to offer.

Maybe she is looking for a guy that appears as more of a catch. I could have done this by acting less available/flaking/delaying contact. However, that would've then broken the fact that I was being true to myself and my personality; so I don't know if that's something I should consider for next time I'm in this situation. The only possible resolution I could see here is that maybe next time, after a day 2, I'll call (not text) WITHOUT the intention of setting up any date - Cut myself off mid-call and say oh shoot someone is calling me I have to go, I'll call you back soon, and then delay calling back for a few days. But, again, this would require acting/games. She seemed more mature than average for her age, so I took the mature route of being straight with her. I texted her vs. calling for the day 3 was cause I knew she was at work at the time I decided to contact her. Perhaps calling for day 3s is a better bet in the future since it would be much harder to turn down over the phone.

I'll definitely not let this get in the way of anything pickup related. I actually am travelling out of the country for 2 weeks next week so that will occupy me, and allow a good amount of time for the freeze out. If she wasn't as hot as she is (and if everything else didn't go as well as it did), I wouldn't have posted at all and just kept on chugging.

Real Talk beat me to the punch.

Although you are a busy guy and all, the vibe I get from reading your posts regarding this chick is you came off as trying too hard to portray a certain image; of a busy man, with a fun exciting life who travels a lot etc.

While that certainly seems to be the case it comes off in this situation as:

"Do you know I can bench press 355 lbs 4x without a spotter?"

In other words, you failed to build enough comfort and rapport as Real Talk mentioned, and instead went 150% on the sexual, C/F side. You HAVE TO build comfort and rapport while also creating and amplifying sexual attraction. Most guys on this board have the opposite problem, they become pretty much a good friend with the girl they really like and fail to escalate with sexual tension, when they go for the move the girl see's it as a blindside and gives them the LJBF speech.

And while its the old school mantra to always watch a woman's actions, rather than her words, it was clear that she was communicating to you that she was more or less a simple girl, who didn't lead an extremely busy life. If you had planned on acting at all, it should have been to get on the same wave length as her on lifestyle, which would have build rapport and made her feel like you had a lot in common. Something along the lines of :

"yeah I know what you mean about leading a simple life, even though I travel quite a bit, I never allow myself to get too caught up in a crazy schedule, I think simplicity is important to balance in life."

Now of course I'm not in anyway telling you to agree with her on everything, but just to focus more time on building commonality rather than focus hard core on gaming.

Secondly, your opener with her at the gym was going so well then you threw in the "I bet you get this all the time," which to me wasn't as much a compliment as it was you putting yourself beneath her. If you want to compliment her, don't be afraid to, just time it right and obviously not within the first few minutes of meeting in most cases.

You lost this girl because the only vibe you gave off to her was "I want to bone your brains out as quick as possible."

Had you spent some more time getting to know her, seeing her at the gym and building that sexual tension you would have got her imo.


No worries, I think you will talk to her again, just keep playing it cool for now and see if you can re-engage down the line.





PIMP

 

[Jeffst1980]

Dinner dates are the WORST possible way to make a connection. Dinner is what you do with your parents.

I have a feeling you came off as a bit TOO eager, just from the way you recounted the details. Almost as though you had a "checklist" of things you do with girls: Get the number, text her, ask her out to dinner, offer to pay "this" time, set up the next date, etc. Even if you did well initially and built some attraction, following any type of "plan" will usually look like you're ready to jump into a full fledged relationship, even if you're not. You need to go super slow with the "dating" stuff, while trying to escalate physically as fast as you reasonably can, if that makes sense--that's the way natural born alphas do it.

However, there's also a chance that you did the best you could with the cards that were dealt, and that it's simply a bad time for her to meet anyone new. Certainly, if she just got dumped, she's not going to be truly interested in ANYONE other than her ex. It's just the way it is...don't be too hard on yourself.

It sounds as though you are an intelligent guy, which will work to your advantage in the long run. However, resist the urge to overanalyze situations like this, and focus on living "outside your head."

Your cold approach was great in that you saw something you liked and went for it--beautifully simple. Now, come up with an equally elegant conclusion for the end of this encounter: It didn't work out, oh well...on to the next. We can nitpick about where you went wrong all day, but none of us were there, and building attraction isn't a straightforward algorithm, anyway. The real lesson is to become LESS OUTCOME DEPENDENT -- don't build your hopes up prematurely, and DON'T think "I HAVE to get her to like me!" Concentrate on projecting a more masculine self-confidence that remains unwavering in the face of beauty and you'll naturally have more chemistry.

 

[f283000]

Sorry about that brother i hate reading stuff like this! When a member here gets himself in a situation with a smoking gal and it doesn't work I just hate it.

Did you do enough kino? I don't see you mentioning kino when you talk of your first interaction with her. From reading your post it seems to me that you first touched her when you where in the restaurant.

Kino can be the game changer that separates you from every other guy with game that has approached her. And when it comes to smoking hot girls like this one i'm sure she's been approached by not just nice guys but guys with game too. It can be the difference from she seeing a guy that spits out good game vs a guy that she not only sees as having good game but also a sexual nature.

I get the feeling that you put a lot of energy/were a little too excited in all your interactions with her. For some reason that's the feeling I get reading your post. All you did sounds good (too good) but when it comes to really hot girls they had a million guys before you do the same thing.

It's hard not to get excited or try to put your "best self" forward with these women but sometimes the opposite works. Instead of letting them know with your actions and your overall mood that she is freaking hot maybe you could just chill a bit, pretend like she ain't nothing special, try not to make things so "perfect" and seem so eager.

Hot girls know full well you probably wouldn't be acting this way with her if she was a 6 instead of a 9. Sometimes it's better to act like if she is a 6 when she really is a 9.

 

[rocket87]

trying too hard to portray a certain image

...

failed to build enough comfort and rapport as Real Talk mentioned, and instead went 150% on the sexual, C/F side. You HAVE TO build comfort and rapport while also creating and amplifying sexual attraction

....

it was clear that she was communicating to you that she was more or less a simple girl, who didn't lead an extremely busy life.

...

"yeah I know what you mean about leading a simple life, even though I travel quite a bit, I never allow myself to get too caught up in a crazy schedule, I think simplicity is important to balance in life."

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then you threw in the "I bet you get this all the time," which to me wasn't as much a compliment as it was you putting yourself beneath her.

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You lost this girl because the only vibe you gave off to her was "I want to bone your brains out as quick as possible."

Had you spent some more time getting to know her, seeing her at the gym and building that sexual tension you would have got her imo.

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I think you will talk to her again

Awesome post pimp, thanks.

Points worth discussing:

● I legitimately was not intentionally talking myself up. She appeared very interested in specific things and was trying to "figure me out" - best example for you:

At one point at dins, she says "Wait so... explain this flying thing? Why do you have a pilots license?? do you have an airplane??" When I met her, I didn't just blurt out "I fly airplanes!!" The way she found out is as follows: When she told me the random ass, not-so-well-known village she lives in, I said "Oh, yeah, ______, that's a bit northwest from here isn't it?" And she responded with "Wtf? How do you know where _________ is? No one ever knows where that is!" To which I said, "Oh I had to fly over there every day when I was training to get my pilots license; __________ is actually within the flight training area." It was literally ALL genuine and non-canned material.

After the initial pickup, I couldn't believe how many high-value, awesome things came up in our convo with absolutely no effort from me whatsoever.



● You are so dead on accurate with the simple factor. I am so glad I posted on here about this because I never would've realized this otherwise. She is really simple, laid back, and chill. You're right. I wish I had realized that earlier. I was so caught up in her looks and I assumed she'd be a *****, because that's all I've ever seen and been exposed to that level of attractiveness. I used my past experiences to judge the interaction, instead of calming down and using cues from the interaction itself. Really, really sucks looking back and thinking about it now since that's every guys LTR dream... a calm, "normal," ridiculously attractive girl. I'm glad I see that now, but I have to remind myself that it's NOT the norm for HBs to be this way. Ugh.



● I could see how me mentioning other guys could be seen in a negative way. That wasn't my intention, of course. I did, however, get the response I was looking for, so at least I played it off well and took it in the right direction after saying what I said. Even while she was typing her number in my phone, she joked about it being fake ("you know I could just be giving you a fake number") and I, again, played it off like I could care less if it were fake or not (C&F). Obviously, it ended up not being fake.



● It's funny you mention that about the vibe I gave off. The more attractive the girl, the less I'm thinking about sex with them. I'm completely serious and genuine when I say this. You hopefully may be able to relate with me? When I'm dealing with super hotties, I completely focus on being able to build massive rapport and intellectually connect with her; anything sexual is actually the last thought to cross my mind. This is mainly why I think I wasn't sexual enough, because it wasn't even a thought in my mind throughout all the time I had spent with her. This could be why I'm more successful with the 7s and 8s, because all I really care about IS the sexual side of things with them since they aren't LTR-worthy; and sex generally comes quite quickly with them.



● I am sure I will talk to her again, because I see her all the time. I'm not really sure how to frame it. I have to keep the simple aspect in mind (I'm a damn fool for missing that.) It might be too late to recover anything worthwhile. :kick:

 

[rocket87]

Dinner dates are the WORST possible way to make a connection

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I have a feeling you came off as a bit TOO eager, just from the way you recounted the details.

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there's also a chance that you did the best you could with the cards that were dealt

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if she just got dumped

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resist the urge to overanalyze situations like this, and focus on living "outside your head."

...

become LESS OUTCOME DEPENDENT -- don't build your hopes up prematurely, and DON'T think "I HAVE to get her to like me!" Concentrate on projecting a more masculine self-confidence that remains unwavering in the face of beauty and you'll naturally have more chemistry.

I completely agree, it absolutely sucked that it ended up being a "dinner date." Even throughout our conversations, I made sure to name it as "getting some food" rather than "dinner." I didn't use any nasty words like restaurant, and emphasized how casual it'll be to her.


I "tried" to do everything I could to not appear eager and needy, but I think this was probably a big reason it didn't work out. I suppose I failed in that sense. I was "too eager." I guess I'll have to act less interested next time. Stupid me.


I am fairly confident that she just got out of a relationship. She kinda gives off that vibe. I've already over-analyzed (lol) the fact that her response was "I'm not ready to date yet." and I think that must have to do with at least some of the rejection.


My line of work requires me to be overly analytic and outcome-dependent; in fact, the reason I'm in that industry is because that's exactly how my personality is and how my brain works. I work towards that brilliant payoff at the end, and do everything within my power to reach it. I don't accept rejection easily, because I've become so efficient at avoiding it all together. It's hard for me to think and act otherwise, but this is definitely a point I'll take with me for the future. Thanks for your response.

 

[rocket87]

Did you do enough kino? I don't see you mentioning kino when you talk of your first interaction with her.

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I get the feeling that you put a lot of energy/were a little too excited in all your interactions with her. For some reason that's the feeling I get reading your post.

...

Sometimes it's better to act like if she is a 6 when she really is a 9.

I did kino her at the gym. We were working out on two stairmasters placed next to each other; so the kino availability was limited. Yet, I did make sure to touch her hand / arm multiple times when 'driving home' points and while making jokes or being facetious. It was natural and flowed well with the conversation we were having.

Haha.. I was totally excited while talking to her both at the gym and at the "dinner" table. My energy level was definitely higher than hers at first. I do recall adjusting it in an attempt to mirror her. She also had a bad day at work and had to stay at work a few hours after she usually does - but that wouldn't affect the overall outcome of the situation. Regardless, even though she appeared interested in what I had to say, and interacting with me positively, you are right - she still didn't have that same energy level I had. I always thought this was a good thing... Maybe it screwed me in this situation.

I'm generally a really energetic guy. I consider it a plus.. When it's time for serious chat or business-related items, I easily get in my serious, calm mood; but other than that I'm "mr. smiley," as they always say.



"Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak."
Sun Tzu

^ Perhaps this is something for me to consider next time I find myself toying with a 9 or 10.

 

[Falcon25]

You don't need to write a novel to know what happened here.

1. You, like 98 percent of men out there, went too fast. You don't invite a girl over on date 2.
2. It's not a big deal you didn't kiss her, it is a big deal that you are potraying yourself as "the ultimate, busy, cool, amazing, great, guy." An amazing guy who invites a stranger to his house on date 2. A woman has to feel comfortable with you. She barely knows you, and you want her to play guitar hero with you? Are you cool as you think you are? Or just over enthusiastic.
3. In case you haven't noticed, SHE HAS SOMEONE ELSE. When a woman's actions confuse you, it's because SHE HAS SOMEONE ELSE> I bet she has at least four or five options. With one guy who she is in love with that won't pay her attention.

Go slow with women, so you can see these things in her, rather than read them through us. You say you avoid anything "datish", guess what pal, you have to date them and show them you are not a boring guitar hero player at home on a saturday night. You have to take them places that get their puvsy's wet, that get them to smile.


ALCOHOL EQUALS SEX, DINNER EQUALS SLEEP.

You know what a woman thinks of when she hears "dinner?" SLEEP. You take your girlfriend to dinner, not someone you just met. You take her out to drinks, coffee, dancing, whatever. NEVER DINNER.
Go on action dates. Go slow. You have a lot to learn.

 

[rocket87]

You don't need to write a novel to know what happened here.

1. You, like 98 percent of men out there, went too fast. You don't invite a girl over on date 2.
2. It's not a big deal you didn't kiss her, it is a big deal that you are potraying yourself as "the ultimate, busy, cool, amazing, great, guy." An amazing guy who invites a stranger to his house on date 2. A woman has to feel comfortable with you. She barely knows you, and you want her to play guitar hero with you? Are you cool as you think you are? Or just over enthusiastic.
3. In case you haven't noticed, SHE HAS SOMEONE ELSE. When a woman's actions confuse you, it's because SHE HAS SOMEONE ELSE> I bet she has at least four or five options. With one guy who she is in love with that won't pay her attention.

Go slow with women, so you can see these things in her, rather than read them through us. You say you avoid anything "datish", guess what pal, you have to date them and show them you are not a boring guitar hero player at home on a saturday night. You have to take them places that get their puvsy's wet, that get them to smile.


ALCOHOL EQUALS SEX, DINNER EQUALS SLEEP.

You know what a woman thinks of when she hears "dinner?" SLEEP. You take your girlfriend to dinner, not someone you just met. You take her out to drinks, coffee, dancing, whatever. NEVER DINNER.
Go on action dates. Go slow. You have a lot to learn.

Not gonna lie, your post was hard to read and agree with, mainly because it's true, and now I feel much more enlightened. That's why I'm spending my time analyzing it. Next time I'll go into things with a way different approach and become more successful with my game.

I'm not the coolest guy in the world. I'm not even that ****y - I try and be confident and outgoing.. Maybe it comes off too strong, but I do self-encourage myself to display high value throughout interactions with beautiful women. I feel as though they need to know that my life is great, that I'm happy with myself, and that I value what I have going for me and I spend a lot of my time and money on a select few things which are very passionate and important to me.

Generally, I will always try to have the girl come direct to my place first for a moment and then we go from there. It's just a strategy I've learned that works 80% of the time. But you're correct that it was too fast in this particular situation (even though she had originally agreed to head off together from my place.) - I see this as a major comfort-builder, not as a quick rush to intimacy technique. I welcome them into my environment to get a taste of 'my world', and then head out with me "leading" the situation.

If anything, from all this, I don't think I'll ever go on a dinner date ever again in my life. For a first (few) dates that is. Especially now it's left a nasty taste in my mouth and I feel kinda stupid for not thinking it through beforehand. (well, that's not true - I thought about the venue beforehand and came to these conclusions: Coffee was stupid to me since it was 8PM. There's no clubs/exciting younger mid-20s hangouts during the week, and drinks didn't cross my mind at all.) Usually, I'd take a new girl to an outdoor activity of mine during the day (frisbee golf = first choice generally), but that wasn't an option.

Drinks didn't even cross my mind because I'm not much of a drinker. I hate alcohol - it screws with my running/exercise schedule. I only drink for certain, special occasions, and asking her for drinks is something I usually wouldn't do. But I suppose I should change my outlook on this and consider it in the future. (This interferes with me being true to myself, but I guess if me being true to myself is screwing me, it's something I need to change.)

 

[f283000]

Regardless, even though she appeared interested in what I had to say, and interacting with me positively, you are right - she still didn't have that same energy level I had. I always thought this was a good thing... Maybe it screwed me in this situation. is something for me to consider next time I find myself toying with a 9 or 10.

I understand where you're coming from. The reasoning is that hb 9s and above have had guys act exactly like you around them all their lives. They know it's because they're hot, they're gorgeous, guys want them. But investing so much energy into them when they don't deserve it and they know it only makes you look like a nice guy. It doesn't make you seem like a challenge or a guy that is above them. She knows full well that you're hyper and excited because of being around her when you shouldn't give a woman that kind of satisfaction until she has actually sucked your balls (or not even then)

I'm pretty observant and i try to learn from guys that are successful by observing what they do. Most of the guys I have known or seen with hb 9s and above around their arm don't act like they have an hb 9 and 10 around their arm.

That's a very powerful thing to note. You can tell the difference right away. If you see an afc/nice guy with a smoking hot girl he will act like if he's with a hot girl. If you see a douchebag/bad boy with a hot girl he will act indifferent and like he rather be watching football.

I was at the mall not too long ago and saw this guy which had your average douchebag look. Smoking hot girl around his arms. So while she looked so energetic, proud to be walking around with him, he looked like "meh" didn't care.

That's real inner game. When we finally overcome being manipulated by a woman's looks and can treat any woman no matter how hot like if she was a 5. Most guys can't do it and most wouldn't dare to take that risk.

 

[Igetit!]

Never an awkward moment or any strange convos came up. I framed it sexually as much as I could, which was difficult with us sitting across from each other at a dinner table.

I'm curious as to what you mean by this.

You said that you tried to frame the conversation as sexual as you could,but it was difficult because you two were "sitting across from each other" at the dinner table?

What does that have to do with anything? You can make a phonecall sexual.

A letter,a text message,FaceBook comments...they can ALL be sexualized. I don't see why the fact that she was sitting 3 or 4 feet from you made framing the conversation sexual such a chore.


But like you said,I do agree that the problem here was that you weren't sexual enough.

Btw, we agreed to split the bill, with me "offering" to pay if she wanted to hit it up NEXT TIME

So you said this to her. You told her that you'd be willing to pay this time,and that she could pay THE NEXT TIME. So you ALREADY had a future date in mind.

That kinda removes a bit of the challenge for her to know that she already has you wanting a 2nd date when the first one hasn't even ended yet.

I held her hand and walked her to her car for all of 15 seconds. She hugs me and says thanks and that she had a great time, the restaurant was so good and I'm glad we went, etc. I kiss her on the cheek (there was definitely not enough of a connection yet to make out/go for a direct kiss) and unleash 1 single compliment of "you're super cute" and she kinda hides behind her hair and says thanks all cute-style.

This is all niceness/politeness.

You said "(there was definitely not enough of a connection yet to make out/go for a direct kiss)". Well think about this for a second....


If there wasn't enough of a connection to go for the kiss,then how could there be enough of a connection to go on a second date?



YOU said that. The "not enough of a connection" thing was what YOU believed and felt. And if the connection wasn't there enough for you to feel it and go for the kiss,then why was her LJBF speech such a surprise?

She felt the same thing YOU did,which was a lack of a connection.


Honestly though,you seem too hung up on trying to do everything "right" You're like....


Neg? check
Make her laugh? check
Not appear needy? check
Not too avaiable? check



You seem like you're so concerning trying to check off all the "gaming" to-do list things,that you forgot you were dealing with another human being.

She mentions something along the lines of "maybe I'll see you this weekend"

Just more "politeness".

Fri: To set something up over the weekend, involving her actually seeing my place and hanging out, I shoot her a text asking if her real life guitar skills are any good in guitar hero, and she responds with something like "Don't know from experience." Then, I text again offering a guitar hero duel the next day (Saturday). It was a great plan I'd thought.. to get her over, something fun and kinoesque to do with each other and to be playful, nothing serious, nothing commital, and most importantly totally informal and NOT "datish" ('formal dates' are the most cliche thing ever and I avoid them at all cost).

Guitar hero???

Dude,there's NOTHING HERE.

She doesn't want to play Guitar Hero,she wants MAN who turns her on,who gets her wet. It's A.C.S./attraction,comfort,seduction.



There's no "attraction" here,it's all comfort. That's why she said the "friends" thing. She FEELS comfortable enough to be friends,but not enough attraction to want to date......or that is,not enough attraction to date YOU.



That's what this.....

"Unfortunately, I'm not as ready to date as I thought, but i'd be ok with being friends."

means.

I try and look back at wtf happened, and the only thing I can almost see is possibly at dinner where she almost had this shield up - absolutely not a ***** shield but a "recently hurt shield."

That's not what happened. She simply wasn't attracted to you.

If that were the case,then why even bother giving you her number and showing up for the date in the first place? And that "I'm not as ready to date as I thought" line? Please....


Why would she GO OUT ON A DATE WITH YOU.....then after going out,tell you she's not ready to date?


It's because she lost interest.

I won't be communicating with her for 3-4 weeks, going to see if a freeze out works

It won't.


Freeze out are for when a girl lacks comfort. She has PLENTY of comfort,I mean she went out with you and even offered to be friends with you.

It's the attraction that's missing,a freeze out won't fix that. The only cure for this situation is for YOU to get sexual. If you two talk to each other again,and I mean by PHONE (not texting or Facebook),you may be able to start turning this around through sexual innuendo and suggestive comments,but you'll need to do it QUICKLY.



Otherwise,you'll be cemented into the friendzone.

 

[rocket87]

Most odon't act like they have an hb 9 and 10 around their arm.

Man you truly hit the nail on the head with that. I think what sucks the most is that I'm always high-energy and it just seems to rub off on people around me. I'm not just giddy because I'm out with ms. supermodel hotness. One of my LTR ex's (3+yrs) was actually frequently pissed off at the fact that I was always giddy and smiley and that it was *difficult* for me to get angry, sad, mad, etc.

Seriously though, what a major downer - looking back & realizing that I had complete control over my energy level, but didn't realize I needed to tame it. I don't have a smile on my face right now, that's for sure. haha. I had to learn this one way or another. It's almost like the strategy the pua's talk about for newbs where you go into sets actually TRYING to get rejected in an effort to get over approach anxiety. It's like I went into this intentionally to fail so that I could come out of it learning how to deal with 9s/10s. But enough beating myself up over it. Lesson learned. :kick:

I can't wait to be in this situation again. My game has totally evolved just from this whole situation. I keep feeling like I totally wasted her as a set, but obviously there will be more babes around, and I came out of it with new knowledge and experience I didn't have before.

 

[rocket87]

I'm curious as to what you mean by this.

...

A letter,a text message,FaceBook comments...they can ALL be sexualized. I don't see why the fact that she was sitting 3 or 4 feet from you made framing the conversation sexual such a chore.

I'm glad you asked - You are right. Any form of communication can be sexualized. I didn't really elaborate on it much since there wasn't much to elaborate on. When I think of sexualizing conversations I really associate it closely with kino. I'm just more comfortable that way - but that's sounds like I'm just making excuses now. It didn't seem like the right time and place to just start jumping into sexual-related chat, she didn't seem to be at that comfort level yet. I could have judged that incorrectly.

For example, to enter a more sexual convo & state, I started discussing this experience I had at a late-night crazy sexual hypnotist show where he was making the volunteers get all sexual with each other, it was a great lead in to other sexual topics, but overall it didn't lead to any sexual banter between the two of us. The story is hilarious, it got her laughing, but that's pretty much it. That key sexual banter was missing.

How could I have increased/escalated it from there?

So you ALREADY had a future date in mind.

I guess that's another "routine" I'll cross off my list. I don't know where I learned it, but I picked it up somewhere along the way. I was "taught" that this was a positive thing to do, to introduce the possibility of another date, but in this situation it totally sucked apparently and came off as too eager.

* Scratch that one off the list. *

She felt the same thing YOU did,which was a lack of a connection.

I felt a lack of connection because of her unmatched energy level. I wasn't all giddy and crazy and smiley. I was just "normal" and we had calm, average discussions. It's not like I was jumping off the walls and she was slouched in the corner. We were both engaging each other and talkative, it just felt off (The best way for me to describe this is that she admittedly didn't "understand me" - my outlook on life is: work for myself, run my business, invest, enjoy my hobbies, have fun - hers is... work 9-5 for a big corporation, have barely any hobbies, go out drinking with friends cause there's nothing else to do). I was wondering to myself "If she accepted a date, she must be interested; therefore why is her energy level so low?" trying to figure this out was strange for me and I didn't quite get it.

It's like she was a lost puppy. She was confused. I think this goes back to her being fresh out of a relationship or whatever. I don't know.

You seem like you're so concerning trying to check off all the "gaming" to-do list things,that you forgot you were dealing with another human being.

I'm used to these other human beings being unintelligent and undeserving. Maybe I am still quite hurt from a past experience(s). I am not misogynistic, but I am a believer in girls being manipulative by default and that keeping somewhat of a guard up is important. I focused too much on process instead of playing things out and letting them ride. At the same time, though, it does help to remind myself of that - to keep secretive and don't spill out everything all at once. I definitely kept the deeper details about my life, finances, hobbies, etc. to myself; I don't just trust anybody with them. Next time I'm in this situation, wouldn't it be smart to have "energy level adjustment" something to "check" ? Know what I mean?

She doesn't want to play Guitar Hero,she wants MAN who turns her on,who gets her wet. It's A.C.S./attraction,comfort,seduction.

I was thinking of kino when I decided the guitar hero thing. That's what lead me to offer it. It would've been a competitive, kinoesque, fun, playful activity and DEFINITELY not the only point of having her over. It was more of a hey come over for this, and then we'll see where it leads (lets grab coffee, etc.) Also, it seemed to fit well with her playing the guitar. One of her very few hobbies she has is playing the guitar. I thought it would be a good transition. I don't really know what else I would've asked her for a day 2? I thought long and hard about it. I was NOT going to do anything remotely date-ish. I thought of anything that could be as far away as a date as possible, which lead me to that decision. Was that stupid of me?

It's the attraction that's missing,a freeze out won't fix that. The only cure for this situation is for YOU to get sexual. If you two talk to each other again,and I mean by PHONE (not texting or Facebook),you may be able to start turning this around through sexual innuendo and suggestive comments,but you'll need to do it QUICKLY. Otherwise,you'll be cemented into the friendzone.

Are you suggesting I call her within a few days and attempt to jump into a highly sexual frame? Wouldn't she see it as an act of desperation? I would try this if you see a possibility of it getting me somewhere..

 

[Falcon25]

Rocket,

Don't worry about it. The reason why most guys are not successful is they never get out of their comfort zone. They just "want to be themselves" they "don't want to grab a drink because they hate alcohol, they don't like dancing, etc. You have to get out of your comfort zone. These are things you do for HER INTEREST. NO ONE GIVES A FUVK ABOUT YOUR INTEREST LEVEL. You are a man. You fall easy for women (Like 99 percent of men) but women take TIME to feel comfortable and to fall for men. You have to go slow and EXPECT NOTHING. Play it cool. No sweat off your balls, if nothing happens, at least you were seen having a drink with an HB10. But, if you want to just get laid, never see them again, then disregard my advice. If you want them to swoon for you, do what I say. YOU SHOULD STRIVE TO BE THE GUY SHE WAS THINKING ABOUT ON YOUR DATE. And she was thinking about him. I guarantee it.