Drug Party In Canada

taiyuu_otoko

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Bible_Belt

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There's a chart in the article below that shows drug deaths per million people. The US outscores Portugal 312 to 6, even though we outspend them by a ratio of about 500 to 1.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

...Portugal may be winning the war on drugs — by ending it. Today, the Health Ministry estimates that only about 25,000 Portuguese use heroin, down from 100,000 when the policy began.

The number of Portuguese dying from overdoses plunged more than 85 percent before rising a bit in the aftermath of the European economic crisis of recent years. Even so, Portugal’s drug mortality rate is the lowest in Western Europe — one-tenth the rate of Britain or Denmark — and about one-fiftieth the latest number for the U.S.

...if the U.S. could achieve Portugal’s death rate from drugs, we would save one life every 10 minutes. We would save almost as many lives as are now lost to guns and car accidents combined.

One attraction of the Portuguese approach is that it’s incomparably cheaper to treat people than to jail them. The Health Ministry spends less than $10 per citizen per year on its successful drug policy. Meanwhile, the U.S. has spent some $10,000 per household (more than $1 trillion) over the decades on a failed drug policy that results in more than 1,000 deaths each week.
 

Desdinova

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I don't smoke weed myself (tried it, didn't like it) and I'm really trying to figure out how the legalization of marijuana is going to affect things. It might be positive, it might be negative, and it might just be the same ol' 5hit that's been going on.

De-criminalize everything? Not sure what to think of that one either. It might help get rid of the really stupid people. With our health care turning to 5hit in the last little while, there won't be anyone to save the stupid ones who fvck themselves up to the point of death.

I'm inclined to somewhat agree with John Lydon's statement on the drug situation. Go ahead and decriminalize it, but make sure that those who are receiving the drugs are getting the correct information about them. If those individuals have the knowledge on the dangers of what they're putting into their body but are still inclined to do so, then let them filter themselves out of the human race.

 

Bible_Belt

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Deep Dish

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Aspen Colorado is selling more marijuana than beer
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/marijuana-sales-overtake-alcohol-colorado-aspen-ski-resort-us-city-weed-cannabis-a8202966.html

“Unalterably opposed” John Boehner has jumped into the marijuana industry
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/11/us/politics/boehner-cannabis-marijuana.html

Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell is legalizing hemp
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomangell/2018/03/26/sen-mitch-mcconnell-pushes-bill-to-legalize-hemp/#5f9b243c581a

Senator Gardner claims he brokered a deal with Trump to legalize marijuana
https://reason.com/blog/2018/04/13/trump-announces-unprecedented-support-fo

Senate minority leader Chuck Shumer has introduced a bill to decriminalize marijuana
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2018/04/19/schumer-backs-effort-to-decriminalize-marijuana/

“In the past week or so we’ve seen an unprecedented escalation of political support for marijuana law reform,” said Tom Angell, chairman of Marijuana Majority. “It seems as if both parties may have finally realized just how popular marijuana legalization is with voters and are afraid of the other party stealing the issue.”

4/20 will be a whole month in 2020.

Happy 4/20, everybody!
 

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QuadDeuces

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It has been "legal" here in Holland pretty much forever.
It's never been a big thing among locals, I don't know too many native Dutch people who smoke daily and the ones who do have mental problems.
But the tourists come from all over the world to Amsterdam to smoke weed like it's a Pilgrimage.

I guess people want what they can't have, and when it is legal nobody wants it.
Want what you can't have, kinda like that BPD ex that goes NC on your ass. :D
 

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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I knew a dude who used to be a meth manufacturer once upon a time. I always thought something was strange about him. I was like 6 or 7 though and he always gave me and my sister lollipops so I never really thought too much of it lol. But anyway, he got like 17 other guys to come into the business with him, one of them used to be a best friend of my dad (my dad never got involved, he just found out when **** hit the fan for the guys and everything went on the news). They would distribute it in northern US and Canada. He ended up getting 10 years in prison, then 2 weeks after he got out, they deported him. There’s probably other people who had similar stories. If Canada does something like this, then those people will likely be able to come back. Or at least head back to Canada anyway and make a life there. Doubt it will pass though.

The original mastermind behind it all never got caught and is now king of the Mediterranean lol, US can’t go after him because he spent all his money on buildings that he put in other people’s names hahaha. I always felt that something was up with him. Guess he was smarter than all of us lol.
 

Red Legg

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I am against harmful drugs being legalized but I see no reason why for instance a harmless drug like magic mushrooms are illegal...I mean come on... has anyone ever died from a shroom ? ;) LOL
 

Bible_Belt

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https://herb.co/marijuana/news/psilocybin-psychedelic-mushrooms-legalization
Are psychedelic mushrooms the next legalization frontier after cannabis?

Now that states have proven that issues like cannabis legalization can be successful at the ballot box, activists are establishing a new front for legalization: magic mushrooms. There are decriminalization efforts in Oregon, Colorado and California.
 

Deep Dish

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I am against harmful drugs being legalized but I see no reason why for instance a harmless drug like magic mushrooms are illegal...I mean come on... has anyone ever died from a shroom ? ;) LOL
Criminal prohibition doesn’t work.

Criminal law makes a bad situation only worse, making the practice of using drugs even more dangerous.

Is there ANY evidence that criminal law reduces drug use?

“The White House had the National Research Council examine the data being gathered about drug use and the effects of U.S. drug policies. NRC concluded, “the nation possesses little information about the effectiveness of current drug policy, especially of drug law enforcement.” And what data exist show “little apparent relationship between severity of sanctions prescribed for drug use and prevalence or frequency of use.” In other words, there is no proof that prohibition– the cornerstone of U.S. drug policy for a century – reduces drug use. National Research Council. Informing America’s Policy on Illegal Drugs: What We Don’t Know Keeps Hurting Us. National Academy Press, 2001. p. 193.”

And meanwhile, murder cases are not getting solved. 50 years ago, 90% of murders were solved. But ever since the War on Drugs was started by Nixon, now it’s only 64%. The federal government bribes the police through federal grants and asset forfeiture for making drug arrests, giving the police a perverse incentive to focus on the low hanging fruit of drug users instead of solving REAL crime.
 
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Deep Dish

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OHHH...... so we should legalize murder as well because ya know prohibition of it doesn't work...what a dumb ass argument.
There are two kinds of law: malum in se (illegal because it’s inherently wrong) and malum prohibitum (illegal because it was prohibited).

Murder and personal consumption of drugs without causing harm to others are clearly separate camps.

“The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinions of others, to do so would be wise, or even right. These are good reasons for remonstrating with him, or reasoning with him, or persuading him, or entreating him, but not for compelling him, or visiting him with any evil, in case he do otherwise. To justify that, the conduct from which it is desired to deter him must be calculated to produce evil to someone else. The only part of the conduct of any one, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others. In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.”

—John Stuart Mill

To hold your feet to the fire, you didn’t answer the question, is there any evidence that criminal laws actually reduce drug use?

Please stick to reasoning, or STFU.
 

Red Legg

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There are two kinds of law: malum in se (illegal because it’s inherently wrong) and malum prohibitum (illegal because it was prohibited).

Murder and personal consumption of drugs without causing harm to others are clearly separate camps.

“The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinions of others, to do so would be wise, or even right. These are good reasons for remonstrating with him, or reasoning with him, or persuading him, or entreating him, but not for compelling him, or visiting him with any evil, in case he do otherwise. To justify that, the conduct from which it is desired to deter him must be calculated to produce evil to someone else. The only part of the conduct of any one, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others. In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.”

—John Stuart Mill

To hold your feet to the fire, you didn’t answer the question, is there any evidence that criminal laws actually reduce drug use?

Please stick to reasoning, or STFU.
OK...let's legalize meth then and let's put no age limit on purchasing it either again your argument is BEYOND fvckin stupid...but some drugs are illegal now that should be made legal IMO pot and shrooms just too name a few.,But hard sh!t hell no...too many idiots out there to do that.
 

Deep Dish

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OK...let's legalize meth then and let's put no age limit on purchasing it either again your argument is BEYOND fvckin stupid...but some drugs are illegal now that should be made legal IMO pot and shrooms just too name a few.,But hard sh!t hell no...too many idiots out there to do that.
https://reason.com/archives/2014/02/23/meth-myths-exposed

Since I have already addressed that protecting people from their own idiocy is not a valid reason for criminal law, you have disqualified yourself from continuing this conversation.
 

Red Legg

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https://reason.com/archives/2014/02/23/meth-myths-exposed

Since I have already addressed that protecting people from their own idiocy is not a valid reason for criminal law, you have disqualified yourself from continuing this conversation.
I could give a fvck about protecting them...lool.....I just don't want to pay my hard earned tax money on their stupidity..because stupid libtards like you will want to put them on public assistance when they become addicted.FVCK .THAT. SH!T.
 
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BeExcellent

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While I agree with the quote from John Stuart Mill in principle, that the individual is sovereign etc., I find this to be a naive viewpoint because it's not as though the innocent drug fairy magically waves a wand and dope appears.

In parts of the US and throughout Mexico you have organizations who are completely constructed of cartel who are "malum in se", criminals who are ruthless killers who do not respect law nor do they abide by the rule of law.

If people are stupid enough to buy street fentanyl for example (a synthetic opiate 1000x stronger than morphine *heroin*) and it kills them, fine. There are less idiots in the world. But the organized crime organizations who produce and sell the drugs cannot be split away from the product and will kill innocent people indiscriminately? Laws need to exist to root out those organizations and discourage their trade.

Fentanyl is used daily in every operating room in the US. There is no WAY the manufacturer of fentanyl is ever going to allow sale of its product to any organization other than medical facilities under the direct supervision of trained doctors. Even though the fentanyl they make is safe from a manufacturing perspective, pure, and quality controlled.

Why do you think that is? Hmmmmm? The company that makes the drug would be sued into oblivion when the idiots who use it start dying. These drugs are controlled for a reason, and that is because improper use is deadly. Look at the lawsuits against the oxycodone manufacturers already. Legalization wouldn't remove the danger of these drugs nor the schedule classification because they must be used properly by licensed medical professionals.

So who are you left with to supply the recreational demand for hard drugs? Malum in se criminal organizations who have no compunction killing whoever necessary to bootleg hard drugs with zero quality control standards to the end user.

The end user has no assurance what they are buying on the street. And hard drugs from standardized safe pure manufacturers will never be available to the end user.

So you can't get the really bad organized crime killers/thugs out of the mix.

Go live a year in Juarez, which is overrun by cartel and then come comment about malum prohibitum. Meanwhile you can cling to your tooth fairy dreams but that ain't the way it works in real life.
 
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Bible_Belt

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While I agree with the quote from John Stuart Mill in principle, that the individual is sovereign etc., I find this to be a naive viewpoint because it's not as though the innocent drug fairy magically waves a wand and dope appears.

In parts of the US and throughout Mexico you have organizations who are completely constructed of cartel who are "malum in se", criminals who are ruthless killers who do not respect law nor do they abide by the rule of law.

If people are stupid enough to buy street fentanyl for example (a synthetic opiate 1000x stronger than morphine *heroin*) and it kills them, fine. There are less idiots in the world. But the organized crime organizations who produce and sell the drugs cannot be split away from the product and will kill innocent people indiscriminately? Laws need to exist to root out those organizations and discourage their trade.

Fentanyl is used daily in every operating room in the US. There is no WAY the manufacturer of fentanyl is ever going to allow sale of its product to any organization other than medical facilities under the direct supervision of trained doctors. Even though the fentanyl they make is safe from a manufacturing perspective, pure, and quality controlled.

Why do you think that is? Hmmmmm? The company that makes the drug would be sued into oblivion when the idiots who use it start dying. These drugs are controlled for a reason, and that is because improper use is deadly. Look at the lawsuits against the oxycodone manufacturers already. Legalization wouldn't remove the danger of these drugs nor the schedule classification because they must be used properly by licensed medical professionals.

So who are you left with to supply the recreational demand for hard drugs? Malum in se criminal organizations who have no compunction killing whoever necessary to bootleg hard drugs with zero quality control standards to the end user.

The end user has no assurance what they are buying on the street. And hard drugs from standardized safe pure manufacturers will never be available to the end user.

So you can't get the really bad organized crime killers/thugs out of the mix.

Go live a year in Juarez, which is overrun by cartel and then come comment about malum prohibitum. Meanwhile you can cling to your tooth fairy dreams but that ain't the way it works in real life.
When the government gives away the drugs for free at a safe injection site, it will drive the street value to zero. And then there will be no more cartels and no more drug dealers. That is the only way. It is absurdly simple and obvious. Our current system is built by the police and prison state to empower themselves and extract wealth from the taxpayers.

Food is actually quite similar. The only reason that people are not fighting and killing each other over food right now is that the government gives it away for free to the poor. Without the food stamp program, we'd have black market, street corner dealers peddling illegal snickers bars and shooting anyone who got in the way of their profits. Prohibition creates crime, just like Deep Dish said above. And that is how we fuel the prison state, by criminalizing more human behavior.
 

taiyuu_otoko

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When the government gives away the drugs for free at a safe injection site, it will drive the street value to zero.
Disagree. Drugs taken in the privacy of one's home with only their chosen friends around is a different experience than getting free government drugs.

It also raises the questions of where the government would be getting those drugs.

If all drugs were made legal, on the other hand, all the violence associated with drugs would go away.

All the crime associated with prohibition (Al Capone, et. al.) vanished as soon as liquor was made legal again.

Nobody could sue drug manufacturers just like alcoholics with cirrhosis can't successfully sue liquor companies.

As far as highly concentrated drugs, this is actually BECAUSE of the illegality.

Higher concentrations of chemicals are a response to drug laws, as higher concentration makes them easier to ship and conceal.

For example, the type of alcohol people drank BEFORE prohibition was more beer and wine.

But since everybody got a taste for hard stuff DURING prohibition (shipping whiskey was easier than shipping beer) then more people stuck to the hard stuff AFTER prohibition ended.

If all drugs were legal, then fentanyl wouldn't be needed, as shipping regular heroin would be the same as liquor trucks driving up and down the highways.
 

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After years of debate, hundreds of pages in legislation, and several last-minute policy changes, Canadians are at last able to legally take in marijuana since October, 17, after the Senate approved recreational use of the drug in June. I am happy for Canadians, their country loves its citizens.
 

lamath

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After years of debate, hundreds of pages in legislation, and several last-minute policy changes, Canadians are at last able to legally take in marijuana since October, 17, after the Senate approved recreational use of the drug in June. I am happy for Canadians, their country loves its citizens.
Canadian here
Things are going good so far no new problem except Pot shop are running low on inventory

Saw a funny thing this week end

I got hospitalized this week end big throat infection, the guy on the bed next to me who was almost 70 got hospitalised because he took too much canabis oil it was his 1st time

He was stone for like 10hr strait and his wife was afraid that he was gonna have a stroke, ofc the guy was jsut thefe with a big smile on his face lol
 
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