DR: Coffee, venue change, DHV and kino

[lebRambo]

hey guys,

haven't posted a DR for a while, so im looking for comments, suggestions, etc.

okay, so I met HB21st at my mate's 21st last friday. She was a little tipsy, so I didnt wanna try isolation there, but she was into me, touching me and rubbing my chest, etc.

So we had coffee yesterday. I picked this place because it was next to a mall, and I like to venue change during coffee dates.

She sends me a text about 10 minutes before we are supposed to meet with "I might be a few minutes late. Sorry!" I text back with "Tsk tsk, this isnt scoring you any points young lady "

She arrives about 10 minutes late, im like meh, she told me at least so thats sorta okay. We chat and stuff and straight away im glad about how easy she is to talk to. Despite my conscious effort, convo was about 50/50, even though I was trying to get her to talk about herself more. I know that a girl asking a lot of questions and being interested is a good thing, because it means that she wants to solidify her attraction by knowing something about the object of her desires. Turns out we know a lot of the same people (this familiarity and rapport is a continuing thread throughout the date, as I find out about her liking a little known band that im really into and a movie that I love but most girls dont, I say something like "its so weird that we have all this stuff in common" to continue building rapport) and we talk about how weird it is that people are so closely linked by other people, etc.

Once she found out what I do and what degree i'm studying, she was like "OMG your totally a genius!" etc. I played it well by not denying it, but not being over the top. Something like "I do my best.."

For the rest of the date she was jokingly calling me a nerd and stuff, and she's piss herself laughing whenever we'd walk past a nerd store and i'd pretend that she's holding me back from dashing in

After coffee, I say "lets go for a walk..." and we walk through the mall into a department store, and walk past the male underwear (this was deliberate on my part, to set this up

HB21st: "so what kind of man are you when it comes to underwear..?"
I just smirk and say "i guess you're just going to have to find out." Not very smooth for someone who had thought this through, so I kinda blew it there. But she liked it, smiled and playfully tickled me, etc.

For the rest of the walk through the department store we had great convo, C+F about how good I look in a suit, what kind of underwear she wears (walking past the girls underwear section, and she replies "you'll just have to find out.." Damn, this is why I love this game ), etc.

She keeps smiling at me and giggling when we have direct EC, and I bust on her for being starstruck.

By the time we got to the cologne section in the department store, she was holding my hand, rubbing my back, had her arm around my waist, putting my arm on her hips/a$$ etc. So the kino stuff was working well. I'd bust on her and she'd pout cutely and I'd pull her in for a hug and go "awww..thats so cute!"

On the night we met, she was so embarrassed that she was tipsy and kept trying to seem sober and cool, so I bust on her for burying her face in my neck on friday night and purring about how she loves my cologne. I pretended like I was gonna show her the cologne but then turned away, saying that its gonna stay my little secret


I could tell this was a good date because i didnt notice the time flying by. By the time I checked, it had been two hours! So I say that I got heaps of work to do and should be heading off. I walk her back to her car and then head to mine and go home.


Rundown of the date:

- venue change : when the initial coffee convo starts winding down, lift the mood back up by venue changing.

- kino : no matter how much a girl likes you, you'll have to do your share first of suggestive or sexually forward kino (touching her back, arm around her waist, etc.) before she will open up. But if she likes you, she'll open up mighty fast and return all that kino twice over

- Deep rapport building sprinkled with light C+F works very well on girls that are already somewhat sold on you. I always assume attraction, and build on that. Because, if she is out with you, how could she NOT be attracted to you? Run with it, it will make the whole thing a lot easier



I messaged her last night saying we should hang out again soon and she replies saying that she wants to. So we'll most likely do something on sunday I'm thinking a picnic by a lake. Nothing too fancy, maybe chinese food and drinks? Any dudes here experts on good second dates?

 

[Jay Jay]

10 out 10 my Phoenician friend!

I suggest coming up with an excuse to either get her to your house, her house or anywhere you can get naked and... well busting a move! She sounds totally primed.

You are my new hero and will shortly recieve rep points!

JJ

 

[lebRambo]

haha, thanks man. Phoenician friend...I like that

yeah, i thought about that. I decided to go against it for three reasons, and please let me know if you (or anyone) think that im still better off having her come over or going over to her house for the second date:

1) We haven't kissed on the lips yet. From my experience, a girl is much more likely to be receptive (and just in the general mood you want her to be in) if you have kissed her or made out some before you get her to your house. It feels like a natural continuation of the situation when you were out with her, rather than upping the ante in your room where she has little control over the situation. Obviously, I am going to continue to escalate in private (my house or hers), but I just want to have that first kiss or makeout under my belt before I isolate so completely.

2) This is a logistical problem : we both live at home with our parents, and bringing a boy or girl home after one date and without having kissed them yet communicates something which I do not want communicated : "I am rushing this because i am insecure, desperate and don't want this one getting away....I NEED YOU!"

3) During the date, she talked about two movies which she really enjoyed and I happened to really like as well. I mentioned a third one which is the same sorta thing as the two she liked, and about how I have it on my computer at home, and I casually said "well then you gotta come over and watch it with me" and she said that she would want to. This makes me think that if i dont rush it and push her to come over too early, I'll be in that anyway, since she's already thinking about coming over and has decided that she will want to at some point (contigent on my not f*cking everything up )


thanks for reading man. I'm on here primarily for feedback and to help others as well, so continue posting!

 

[Jay Jay]

Sounds like you have a good handle on the situation. Trust your instincts. You're probably right; might be a bit much trying to get her to your house before starting the physical phase...

Good luck!

JJ

 

[lebRambo]

haha, thanks dude. I'll continue updating this thread as stuff progresses

 

[lebRambo]

WTF? ONE person has replied to a DR. You know, the stuff from which you learn and help others to progress, as opposed to the same recycled crap that gets fed through the sosuave grist mill?

Need some more comments guys.

 

[lebRambo]

UPDATE : had date number two today. THIS my friends was one for the ages. Planned a fantastic picnic by the lake. Picked up some food at this vegetarian restaurant (that basically nobody knows about, but its SOOO good. damn she was impressed ), headed out to the lake with some chilled white wine and chilled wine glasses in a cooler, just in time to see the fountain come on. HEAPS of kino, snuggling, kissing, deep rapport and vibing, etc.

I handled it like a pro. Organised everything perfectly, everything went off without a hitch.

She kept going "I can't believe how confident you are" and "This is the best date I've ever been on. I'm so impressed!"

going for the isolation and fclose next

 

[danielzxc]

Bro, I hate to rain on your parade man, but, believe it or not, I actually think.... you blew it!

Here's why.

You read people on this board and it's easy to get the impression that getting a chick into bed is some herculean task. That road from intial approach to the panties come off is filled with pitfalls and booby-traps and only if you skillfully manage to navigate everything and get everything spot on, only then she'll sleep with you. But the reality is kinda different. Maybe with SOME chicks -- usually ones who arne't all that into you, but were curious enough to hang out and test the waters -- you have to go through all that, and you have to perform perfectly. But with other chicks, when they REALLY LIKE YOU, it's fkkn EASY AS, and even if you royally fkk up, it doesn't even matter. Their being REALLY INTO YOU is the key part.

Now, it's hard to tell everything from a computer screen, but your FR does suggest that this one was (is) REALLY INTO YOU. however, YOUR interpretation is that things only went so well becauase YOU managed to "get everything right". You took her to the department store and ahhhh, what a master move you're thinking and patting yourself on the back. Really, if she's REALLY into you, you could have just stood on a street corner and watched cars go by and it would have been jsut as good.

Anyway, that's not my main qualm; it's just something I wanted to get out of the way.

Where I really think you "blew it" was you failed to go sexual. Now, no doubt, you had some good rapport going, had her laughing etc etc. BUT, you didn't take the next step and getting her experiencing "sexy feelings". Okay, there was that underwear thing, and okay, it was funny(ish), but you sort of just let it drop right there instead of using it as a stepping stone to deeper sexual stuff.

Now, i know it's WAY easier to say what you should have done than to actually do it when you're on the spot, but this was definitely what was missing.

Now, HAD you gone sexual, you wouldn't have just been walking her back to her car, you would have been in the car with her, in the backseat getting it on. (If you have any doubts, let me assure, yes, it is preceisly that simple. If she's clearly into you, and you go sexual, it's only natural that the night ends doing something sexual together. Okay, not every girl is that easy, but HEAPS are. At a MINIMUM you would have had your tongue down her throat)

Same thing with your picnic. That's a nice "date", I'll admit. But did it get you laid? Nope. Why? BEcause again, you didn't go sexual.

I am getting the impression you are kind of scared to do that, that's my honest take on it. Maybe it's because of lack of experience, or you're scared of rejection, or you've got a belief system that says that is "impossible" to move that quick or "wrong" (immoral) to move that quick, or maybe you never even thought of it. Whatever it is, you should face up to it, because if a date went THAT well and didn't end up in sex (or "almost sex"), it has to be either cos you didn't go sexual, or she's just a hardcore "good girl".

Anyway, sorry to sound negative man, 'cos actually I'm really happy for you that you've moved so far forward. THat is really good stuff and you're doing really well. To reach the final level all that seems to be missing is that "going sexual" part of the scheme -- and yeah, it does take some balls to do, I admit, but THAT is what definitely gets their panties wet once they already like you and enjoy your company. (And if you're worried about KBJ stuff, I only EVER base this level of advice on things i've actualy done and experiecned myself. Otherwise, I acknowledge when it's just theoretical opinion.)

 

[danielzxc]

Oh, and also, what do you mean you didn't wanna isolate because she was tipsy (at the party)? When they are tipsy it is the EASIESTto isolate!

Do you believe in that stuff about not "taking advantage" of girls when they're drunk or something? OF COURSE you should take advantage. Most of the time girls drink so that you CAN take advantage -- they have an excuse for doing what they otherwise wouldn't have done ("oh, I would never have done it... but i was drunk!" they tell themselves and their freinds).

Getting them tipsy is one of the best ways to get laid. It NEVER hurts, it only helps.

 

[lebRambo]

i think you are right in some ways dude.

but i also think i didn't explain myself that well. I didn't take about the sexual stuff during the second date: we kissed and stuff (not overly hot and heavy, but it was there). And the first date i had a fun, casual frame going (since it was during the day), so its not likely we would have banged in her car

I guess a sticking point for me is that whenever i try to run some sexual stuff, it comes off sounding a little forced (well, to me at least). That could be because im not used to hearing myself talk that way though.

And i really appreciate the feedback as well.

 

[danielzxc]

Oh, sorry, I forgot the first date was during the day. Well, a good hard make out was still posisble though. And also, just to be a negative prik again, I would criticize your choice of a daytime date. Those are good for when you've cold appraoched a girl, and she doesn't know anything about you yet, it's "safe" for her to see you again for a coffee. But this one, you already met her and had physical contact with her and (apparently) kissed her (but what kind of kiss was it if it wasn't on the mouth??), so you're not just some chump she's in two minds about but decides to oh well, I'll at least go for a coffee with him. No, you are way ahead of that. You should have gone for a night hook up, so that way things can end up hotter.

About it sounding "forced" if you talk about sexual stuff and try to elicit sexual states from her, i have a corny sounding suggestion for you -- practise at home by yourself. Yeah, i know it sounds gay, but seriously, if you can't even do it when you're by yourself and there's no one there to hear you, how are you gonna do it in the heat of the moment? You won't do it -- you'll chicken out because you don't wanna sound "forced" or whatever. So yeah, in this case, practise would be a good idea.

(Again, sorry to sound like i'm on your case man. You had that nightclub FR once i remember i sort of had some tough word then for you too. I HATE sounding like some know-it-all wanka, believe me. I'm only just giving you some simple/advice tips that I know work, and that i have used myself in the past, which are also, if you think about it, grounded in some pretty solid logic. I just wanna help out a fellow aussie man, that's all. Good luck with things bro, and let us know how shyt works out.)

 

[lebRambo]

no way man, don't worry about being on my case. Haha, I wish MORE people were on each other's cases. cause that is the only way you improve: by people criticizing your sh*t objectively, instead of telling you what you want to hear.

One other question: does quick escalation have the possibility of coming off as needy and inexperienced? As in, eager to get sexual, cause I'm desperate?

I ask because I read these LRs of dudes who meet some girls, absolutely throttle her with awesome frames and convo and someone convince her that they are hot sh*t (which they are) and she doesnt find them creepy or desperate. How does that work? Do girls chalk it down to one of those romance-novel or movie style things where 'it just happens' because 'he's so charming!'?

 

[danielzxc]

Firstly, I wouldn't call what I described as "quickly". Not at all. It's simply about having her "buying temperature" raised to the right degree. That can happen in a few seconds (eg when she's MADLY attracted to you, and probably tipsy too), to a few minutes (she's attracted and you say words that turn her on) to a few hours, or a few days/dates (she sees a "side of you" that she hadn't yet but she now really likes/desires).

Secondly, the stuff I am saying, nah man, no way can that be called "needy" or "desperate". Maybe you could give an example of what you think is "needy" or "desperate". To me, that is basically the stuff a guy does when he senses (rightly or wrongly) he might be "losing" a chick. So he does things like "plead" with her, or tries to "guilt" her into liking him or doing stuff with him.

I'm not sure what you mean by "convince her they are hot shyt". Do you mean as in verbally talking about themselves or their accomplishments? Or just the "frame" they display is really cool? I don't think the former is a very effective method. Then again, I had this leb mate who was the biggest fkkn bragger you've ever seen (not an unusual thing with lebs, bragging, I'm sure you agree ) and he would hugely exaggerate stuff when tlaking about himself.... and it really worked for him. I think his trick was that HE was so convinced he was so unreal, he actually really believed it, and it was easy for him to stay consistent with that image. Thing is, anyone who knew long enough realized it was all BS. Still, chicks definitely bought into it for long enough for him to fkk them. I think this guy was an exception though. But apart from that I'm not really sure what you mean by "convince" them. Got any links to those LRs?

As for your last question, yeah, that's the "excuse" chicks use for sleeping with a guy "too soon". They "couldn't help it" 'cos they were just swept off their feet, he was so charming, it was so perfect/romantic etc. Basically, they tell themselves anything they can that gets THEM off the hook, and puts the responsibility on the guy for what happened. Anywya, that's none of OUR concern, except to understand this and to make sure we create the right "atmosphere" where she'll have a ready excuse for herself. That comes back to alcohol, 'cos the simplest excuse is "I was drunk", which is why I recommended suggesting a few drinks (most chicks get drunk really easy, so it only takes a few). Oh, and obviously, different chicks need different "levels" of excuse -- like a slvt hardly needs any, whereas a virgin, you're probably gonna have to knock her socks off with the "atmosphere" in order for her to do the deed.

 

[lebRambo]

Secondly, the stuff I am saying, nah man, no way can that be called "needy" or "desperate". Maybe you could give an example of what you think is "needy" or "desperate".

what i mean here is that if you are too outcome-focussed, as in all about the lay, and she senses this, then that is a major turn off. I don't want to be playing a character when I'm with a girl. I don't want to be communicating with her, but in the back of my mind i'm thinking "okay, this comment and this kino has done this, i am now 5% closer to the lay!". I don't think PU is that clinical and exact. This is NOT a science, its a lifestyle.

Got any links to those LRs?

I mean the same-day lays that the guys over at mASF always seem to be posting

 

[danielzxc]

I honestly don't know what that's like, to feel "outcome-based". I've just never looked at it that way.

My take was always that I just be the best I can (cool, fun, sexual) and then just let whatever happens happen. I've never thought about it any other way. Maybe I've just been lucky man, 'cos my success rate after I have gotten them to come out with me, is pretty high, and I've fkked on the first night PLENTY of times. Dunno man, I guess I alwasy thought it was just normal that if a chick is into you that it should lead to sex straight away.

I suppose the only "outcome-focused" thing I did was to suggest activities and take them places where it's easy to get it on -- like back to my place (sneak in after my parents were in bed) or just park in some secluded spot. But even with this I never really thought about, it just seemed obvious that if you want to have sex you need to be in a place where it's possible.

Having said all that, I don't think it's a bad thing to be "outcome-focused" in the way you described it. Maybe not to the extent that you're calculating percentages as you go. But to self-assess yourself while it's going, to make sure that you're being cool and directing things in the way that you want them to go, that can only be a good thing. Especially that last part.

I think you've GOTTA direct things in the proper direction. Looking back, the times where I had dates that were "fun" (in some ways) but didn't lead to sex (and never even seemed like it) were the ones where i let HER talk about stuff for way too long and got myself caught up in HER convos. Maybe that goes against the advice on here about "let her talk". Yeah, let her to an extent, but don't let her direct EVERYTHING, because then who knows what the hell she'll talk about it. If goes off on some crap about her hobbies, how she loves horses blah blah blah, it can all start to get very non-sexual -- indeed "date-like" -- very quickly, and then it's fkkn hard to get it back. LET her talk about herself a bit, but when YOU answer to it, YOU have got to find some way of sneaking a sexual angle in there; not necessarily overtly, but SOMEHOW you've gotta direct things in the way they need to go. In this sense, I think it's a very good thing to be "outcome-based".

Am I making sense?

PS -- i believe most of those masf LRs. At least, I don't see any reason not to.

 

[lebRambo]

oh my god. I am freaked out :|

She is really into horses! In fact, before the date ended we went over to feed her horses cause she forgot to do so! :|

How did you know that?!

I am such a dumba$$....

worst...leb...EVER!

 

[danielzxc]

She is really into horses! In fact, before the date ended we went over to feed her horses cause she forgot to do so! :|

How did you know that?!

I can spot 'em a mile away.

(See that but? Are you ever gonna doubt my word again now? )

worst...leb...EVER!

Took the words out of my mouth. I was just about to ask you if you're sure you're actually lebanese.

 

[lebRambo]

haha, yeah I am. The massive d!ck and the mediterranean olive skin that the girls love so much will attest to that fact

 

[lebRambo]

hey daniel,

I think you were right dude. Messaged her on wednesday and still no word. Either she lost phone/number or i've been rejected.

Kinda weird though, cause girls when they reject me normally they would message me but just keep flaking on dates. Meh.

You know your sh*t man

 

[Sp1kez]

You did great LEB! although I think daniel has been too harsh on the situation he does have a point, your date planning is top notch but you need to learn to read the signs of when to escalate, I understand that you didn't want to make it sexual first and i KNOW that it is harder to lay a girl if you live with your parents ( I do ) but in my experience, the only girls who have wanted to be my girlfriends (read: that I did not have to strategize to get) are the ones that I have had sex with before any mention of relationship comes up. ALL (read: 100%) of the others were the topic of relationship or exclusivity has come up before the sex have been a waste of time.