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Don't women know that male friends are a liability, not a selling point?

Jitterbug

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Recently I met & went out with some women who would not shut up about how awesome their male friends are, but otherwise would show signs of high IL in me. They talk about their male friends as if it makes them really cool chicks because they have such great friends, or having a large number of male friends and following typical male interests make them understand men better, which apparently is a selling point for nerds who don't know what else to talk to women about.

While they're yapping on about those guys, I'd be checking the "can't live without truckload of male attention" box in my head, on the list of "is this girl worthy of my time?".

Don't women know that any guy who has his sh!t together will consider their male friends a liability?
 

RedPill

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Many women live in society's 'matrix' too. It's not just for chumps.

Any woman who has their **** together is socially intelligent & life experienced enough to realize that entertaining orbiters and maintaining relations with male friends in quantity is unattractive.
 

SHECHAFESMYFIGS

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The "I don't get along with other women because they are conniving b**ches so I just have a lot of close male friends" thing is my new (hard learned) red flag with women. I fell for this BS from a women just like other chumps, and I even felt guilty and insecure for questioning it at the time. Now, I would say this is the easiest to spot and biggest red flag to me. I want nothing to do with a woman like this because she is an almost guaranteed AW or cluster B.
 
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My BPD girl has guys in her phone she calls "friends". I call her out on it every time and remind her they just want her panties and I give her the men and women can't be friends speech. I even know that some of the guys in her phone are dudes she has banged before.

I don't even care. Let her text the losers. She knows if I find out she messes with any of them I am gone and I will call MY female friends who she knows about.

Should I demand she remove them from her phone? I don't think that would be wise. I'll just keep my phone full of woman and text them and she can't say a thing.
 

STR8UP

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Jitterbug said:
Don't women know that any guy who has his sh!t together will consider their male friends a liability?
They don't realize that sweat pants, t-shirts, and flip flops are unattractive

They don't realize that their "career aspirations" are unattractive

They don't realize that the inordinate amount of attention they give to their annoying little sh!t-zu is unattractive

They don't realize their interest in professional sports makes them unattractive

Why in the world would they think that having half a dozen chumps texting them all day would be unattractive?
 

DJDamage

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STR8UP said:
They don't realize that sweat pants, t-shirts, and flip flops are unattractive

They don't realize that their "career aspirations" are unattractive

They don't realize that the inordinate amount of attention they give to their annoying little sh!t-zu is unattractive

They don't realize their interest in professional sports makes them unattractive

Why in the world would they think that having half a dozen chumps texting them all day would be unattractive?
The problem is that this kinda sh1t has already became the norm, that has been ingrained and reinforced constantly by other women who push their own agendas with their boyfriends until the behaviour becomes tolerable and acceptable for everyone else to follow. It won't be long before women will come up with other sh1t which chumps will accept.

Now you are considered a jerk and backwards thinking if you don't accept the legitimacy of her male friends. They can now add the word a$$hole to my title because I don't LTR chicks with close male friends.
 
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fuzzx said:
Vlad WTF you shouldn't even be hanging out with a b1tch like that.

Keep her at arms length if you are looking for quality women. You're never gonna find your quality woman if you keep surrounding yourself with women like those.

She has serious issues that I know about and have accepted and I am dealing with them as long as she doesn't betray me. I have my eyes wide open and she knows that.

I have issues too. We are a match made in heaven or hell. We will soon find out.
 

zekko

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DJDamage said:
The problem is that this kinda sh1t has already became the norm, that has been ingrained and reinforced constantly by other women who push their own agendas with their boyfriends until the behaviour becomes tolerable and acceptable for everyone else to follow. It won't be long before women will come up with other sh1t which chumps will accept.

Now you are considered a jerk and backwards thinking if you don't accept the legitimacy of her male friends. They can now add the word a$$hole to my title because I don't LTR chicks with close male friends.
I have to agree with you here. Before finding this site I thought this was the prevailing attitude, and I thought there was a problem with me because I didn't put up with it. Since seeing pretty much everyone here is against it, I can see I was right all along after all. This, along with some observations I've been making in other people's lives recently, pretty much convinces me the whole "harmless male friend" concept is a complete lie.
 

KontrollerX

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"Don't women know that any guy who has his sh!t together will consider their male friends a liability?"

Not at all.

There's so many beta male AFC's in society its a normal thing for a woman to have piles of "guy friends" and have her pick of the litter.

The betas that manage to get the balls to ask her out will never put their foot down and make her get rid of those stooges/future replacement boyfriends for fear of being labelled with the feminist "insecurity" shaming when in reality a guy who kicks the male friends out of his woman's life is ensuring his security and that of his growing relationship with the girl.

The quickest relationship killers are allowing guy friends as well a guy persuing a woman who has harpie female friends that hate him and will gradually chip away at the girl's resolve until the relationship is ended.

So in both of these scenarios where a DJ wants a particular chick he has to make the girl choose between what she wants or what will actually make for a relationship that has a chance at succeeding.

The girl must choose between keeping her guy friends or keeping her harpie female friends and the beta males who don't have the balls to set that frame at the very beginning of their new relationship are the guys that end up in the gutter with a crushed ego and a failed relationship all a result of lacking balls buying into feminist shaming and refusing to set their own frame.

If a girl is truly worthy of a DJ anyway she will choose his frame and his way over her own everytime.
 

Luthor Rex

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STR8UP said:
They don't realize that sweat pants, t-shirts, and flip flops are unattractive

They don't realize that their "career aspirations" are unattractive

They don't realize that the inordinate amount of attention they give to their annoying little sh!t-zu is unattractive

They don't realize their interest in professional sports makes them unattractive

Why in the world would they think that having half a dozen chumps texting them all day would be unattractive?
Just as the modern AFC has refused to embrace his natural masculinity, the modern woman has failed to embrace her natural femininity. We should probably always keep that in mind.
 
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KontrollerX said:
"Don't women know that any guy who has his sh!t together will consider their male friends a liability?"

Not at all.

There's so many beta male AFC's in society its a normal thing for a woman to have piles of "guy friends" and have her pick of the litter.

The betas that manage to get the balls to ask her out will never put their foot down and make her get rid of those stooges/future replacement boyfriends for fear of being labelled with the feminist "insecurity" shaming when in reality a guy who kicks the male friends out of his woman's life is ensuring his security and that of his growing relationship with the girl.

The quickest relationship killers are allowing guy friends as well a guy persuing a woman who has harpie female friends that hate him and will gradually chip away at the girl's resolve until the relationship is ended.

So in both of these scenarios where a DJ wants a particular chick he has to make the girl choose between what she wants or what will actually make for a relationship that has a chance at succeeding.

The girl must choose between keeping her guy friends or keeping her harpie female friends and the beta males who don't have the balls to set that frame at the very beginning of their new relationship are the guys that end up in the gutter with a crushed ego and a failed relationship all a result of lacking balls buying into feminist shaming and refusing to set their own frame.

If a girl is truly worthy of a DJ anyway she will choose his frame and his way over her own everytime.

So next time she starts texting some loser in her phone I should tell her "It's either me or the losers in your phone, whats it going to be?"

Ofcourse, I don't know who is REALLY in that phone.

Kontroller makes a good point. I shouldnt just be cool with it.
 

KontrollerX

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"So next time she starts texting some loser in her phone I should tell her "It's either me or the losers in your phone, whats it going to be?"

Well I'm talking about frame from the beginning of a relationship as in when you are just starting one.

It can be quite disasterous to try and re-claim the frame when you and a girl have already been together for a long while as you both are settled somewhat comfortably into your current roles.

Setting the frame from the beginning and letting the girl take it or leave it is much more fair to the girl and you're likely to have better success with it.

Try it midway through a relationship and it usually leads to disaster.

Though since you are dating a BPD after she gets done raging at you should you try to change the frame she'll probably come to want you more if you stick to your guns on it.

Still being a BPD and all she won't give up cheating on you, she'll just find more clever ways to hide her cheating.

My second and last Cluster B nutjob actually forged some college papers to try and fool me she was there at so and so time when she was really with another guy.

I think another Cluster B victim on this forum (probably Bible Belt) once talked of similar forgery happening with a cellphone bill.
 
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KontrollerX said:
"So next time she starts texting some loser in her phone I should tell her "It's either me or the losers in your phone, whats it going to be?"

Well I'm talking about frame from the beginning of a relationship as in when you are just starting one.

It can be quite disasterous to try and re-claim the frame when you and a girl have already been together for a long while as you both are settled somewhat comfortably into your current roles.

Setting the frame from the beginning and letting the girl take it or leave it is much more fair to the girl and you're likely to have better success with it.

Try it midway through a relationship and it usually leads to disaster.

Though since you are dating a BPD after she gets done raging at you should you try to change the frame she'll probably come to want you more if you stick to your guns on it.

Still being a BPD and all she won't give up cheating on you, she'll just find more clever ways to hide her cheating.

My second and last Cluster B nutjob actually forged some college papers to try and fool me she was there at so and so time when she was really with another guy.

I think another Cluster B victim talked of similar forgery happening with a cellphone bill.

We are just starting the relationship. When we were just FB's she would text dudes in front of me. Now she leaves her phone out of sight because she already knows I am not cool with it.

I'm not sure how BPD this girl is. She seems stable as long as I dont piss her off. That is when she goes out and bangs the town.

Her parents are together but she has dated and even married some true pricks. I think this is where her BPD comes from.
 

Zunder

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I think even worse than her having male friends, is her having GAY male friends. Ah jeezus, I have nothing against camp muthafukers - if they like getting cornholed by some dude, they hey - go for it.....but I DO NOT want to assosiate with these fags. I have zero interest in their lifestyle.
Yet - my stupid ex Irish b1tch of a GF would accuse me of being a homophobe!
And what made matters even worse - she would go to her main fag friend for advice about how to deal with me!
Sheesh - I don't know why I put up with that sh!t for a year. Never again will I go out with a bird with gay friends. Period.
 

jophil28

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Jitterbug said:
Don't women know that any guy who has his sh!t together will consider their male friends a liability?
A couple of points-
Relationships with others are what women live for - the more the better.
IT does not seem to be a question of "quality" either, rather than quantity. The more the better.

Secondly, woman are gullible and easily led by fads and trends. Having 'male friends', like they do today, was almost unheard of 20 years ago. Back then, woman sought out a B/f and dated him exclusively until marriage or they broke up. Women were serial daters, one guy at a time...no "orbiters" back then.
Having "male friends" is a recent phenomenon.

Of course woman know that their " male friends" would get instantly naked with them in the right circumstances with some tequila onboard. Imagine the ego boost that woman get from having a bullpen of horny betas on tap.
This is what you are up against if you start dating a woman with "male friends".

Women also see themselves and their offer of affection and intimacy as a high value commodity that they give a man in return for his constant attention and protection. Even those who carry a "few extra pounds" regard themselsve as a glittering prize for some "lucky man". This is the legacy of the feminised social landscape of the past 30 years or so.

YEs, having "male friends" is a liability for a woman who is seeking a good man for an LTR ,BUT convincing them to see the downside is a real steep hill to climb.
 

zekko

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jophil28 said:
Secondly, woman are gullible and easily led by fads and trends. Having 'male friends', like they do today, was almost unheard of 20 years ago.
Might have been a little farther back than that, but who's counting? The "serial dating" thing was more common, as you say: "Who's your boyfriend this week?", that sort of thing.

I won't tolerate the male friend thing. My policy has always been "dump the male friends, or I walk", and I would. My time is too precious to waste on women like that.

It's interesting that this topic is in the Mature Man section. I wonder if the younger fellows might have a different spin attitude toward it.

Remember the attraction principle of Preselection? If a woman sees you in the company of other women, they want you because you've shown that women like you? They probably think having male friends works to their advantage in a similar way. I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't a tip somewhere on some female dating forum.
I'm not sure why having lots of women is seen as a good thing for guys, but having lots of men is seen as a bad thing for girls. It's a traditional role thing I suppose. Men don't like the competition because they want to make sure their seed is the one that gets through (historically speaking). Whereas a man with lots of women is seen as powerful.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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A woman with a lot of circling beta orbiters uses them in a similar fashion to a b!tch shield. They're simply an Alpha filter for her in the same manner; both present the sh!t test of qualifying a guy's confidence for her intimacy. A girl using a b!tch shield runs the risk of being perceived as a bonafide b!tch, however the beta-orbiter girl (usually called an AW) can deflect that perception by encouraging the idea that intergender platonic friendships are universally innocuous and viable (they aren't). But as with most useful social conventions the premise is unassailable - in other words you come off as a caveman-A-hole for overtly suggesting anything is wrong with it.

Attention is the coin of the realm in Girl World; it's a status currency that positions the social pecking order amongst themselves and estimations of self-worth. All but the most vapid women know damn well that cultivating a stock of beta-orbiters is a liability, but mainly in that the betas will grow discontent or make unwanted attempts at her intimacy over time as their desperation grows. However the rewards of using them to filter out an Alpha mate are undeniable. That and the attention they provide in the meantime reinforces her self-worth, so it becomes a risk-loss equation.

There is also the risk of playing the orbiter schema for too long. It becomes a zero sum game as her sexual marketability declines when she ages and suitable Alpha's are less interested in playing in favor of better (younger) prospects. At this stage, or when her beta stock dwindles, she's forced to make new rationalizations ("she's matured past that childishness") for her switch in methodologies. This is when she complains there are no Nice men any more, or how infantile men are, or threatened men are of her in her 'new found' maturity.

As in most cases, and as a DJ, you need to assess whether the rewards are worth the sh!t test, in comparison to another equally attractive woman without them. If the answer is yes, then see the beta-orbiters for the boon they represent to your game. It's easy to grind your teeth at a woman with "a lot of male friends", but they represent an opportunity for DHV. In fact she wants an Alpha to step up and use them as such. Women are natural born plate spinners, they do it instinctually. So you will always have the male "girlfriends" to deal with in some fashion. Use them in the same manner as she does; AMOG them, BF kill them, basically use their inherent beta-ness to emphasize your Alpha/DJness. And as always, do so covertly. The moment you overtly try to shoo away all the dogs sniffing around her yard is the moment you'll be just another insecure beta out there with them - how do you think they got there in the first place? If a woman has a genuine desire for you, she'll shoo them away herself. You must stay above her method of using these orbiters - if they get under your skin, you fail the test. At the same time you have the constant opportunity to demonstrate such a higher value than the orbiters that you position yourself not only above them but above her game in using them.
 

jophil28

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zekko said:
Whereas a man with lots of women is seen as powerful.
THis goes to the "rock star" concept.
A man who is adored by many and, also hard to get, is indeed a prize.
 

jophil28

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Rollo Tomassi said:
As in most cases, and as a DJ, you need to assess whether the rewards are worth the sh!t test, in comparison to another equally attractive woman without them. If the answer is yes, then see the beta-orbiters for the boon they represent to your game..
Unfortunately for her, a lot of high value guys would not even bother to engage her, preferring instead to maximize their time investment by snaring an equally attractive and available candidate without the 'orbiter' obstacle and their annoyance factor.
 

zekko

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Rollo Tomassi said:
The moment you overtly try to shoo away all the dogs sniffing around her yard is the moment you'll be just another insecure beta out there with them.
I've been able to overtly have them get rid of the male friends by stating plainly that I had no interest in seeing a women with male friends. However, these were not AWs, they just happened to have a few male friends (not a huge circle of them). But I did not attempt this until it was certain attraction was built. Also, and this probably had a lot to do with it, I very much meant what I said - I would have walked if they had kept them. I'm sure the sincerity came through. There was no danger of my becoming an orbiter. But your post is mainly about AWs, so that is a different subject. I wouldn't advise getting involved with an AW.

Have you ever heard the saying that when a man and a women are "just friends", one of them is actually wanting it to be something more? Like any rule, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I think there's a lot of truth to that.
 
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