Don't tell me to look into your eyes, I'm not your dog

[Zunder]

Gets good from 1:29
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXXwcvojbJc

 

[Die Hard]

Interesting... I respect him for stepping up and putting her in her place, but at the same time I think he comes off a little weak because he takes her so seriously and actually gets angry at her. It shows that she got to him... I feel like she baited him and got him to lose his temper.

I would've probably just laughed about her behavior and stayed calm, instead of responding so seriously and annoyed.

But hey, I suspect he had a few drinks and it caused him to respond so seriously.

 

[Zunder]

Interesting... I respect him for stepping up and putting her in her place, but at the same time I think he comes off a little weak because he takes her so seriously and actually gets angry at her. It shows that she got to him... I feel like she baited him and got him to lose his temper.

I would've probably just laughed about her behavior and stayed calm, instead of responding so seriously and annoyed.

But hey, I suspect he had a few drinks and it caused him to respond so seriously.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
But I disagree.
Yes he became slightly aggressive in his tone of voice, but what is the alternative? To be passive and just walk away? Don't let the fact that she was a woman take away from the fact she tried to bully him. Just because we are no longer in the schoolyard doesn't mean in our adult life we let other men or women just walk all over us.
She got whacked back verbally hard by a guy who wasn't going to take it from her. In fact he at one time said "You need to hear this" in the midst of calling her out - and she did need to hear it.
Personally, I thought he handled it pretty darned well.

 

[Die Hard]

Personally, I thought he handled it pretty darned well.

I agree, he handled it pretty well. I just think he could've handled it even BETTER.

Yes he became slightly aggressive in his tone of voice, but what is the alternative?

The alternative? Well, for starters, he could've kept his voice at a normal volume... If he had said the exact same things, but just in a calm manner, I think he would've come off stronger in that situation.

But really, why even give her the satisfaction and validation of getting into this "fight" with her? Who is she? Just some dumb, insecure wh0re, like he said. So why not treat her like one and ignore her stupid azz or if you must reply, just make fun of her? Why take her seriously and spend so much energy on her? I feel it gives her validation.

Possible responses when she told him: "Look in my eyes when you talk to me."

"Hahaha, you're so funny!"
"Awww, did I hurt your feelings? *big smile*"

Then follow up by turning your back towards her and instantly start talking to the other chicks, treating her like she's not there.


Or something like that. I dunno, I just think a man should make a woman chase after his validation/attention instead of the other way around.
As a matter of fact, he WAS treating her like that and slowly riling HER up! See, she was trying hard to prove herself to him, telling him "You wouldn't get any material out of me like you were getting out of them" and Joe was not taking her seriously at all, even making fun of her, telling her "I'm laughing right now.."

At the same time, he's just looking at the other girls, then looks over to his left at some other people, then looks to his right. While the bytch is trying so hard to prove herself to him, his attention is elsewhere, totally not taking her seriously.
She is annoyed by this and that's actually why she suddenly tells him to look at her while he talks to her. That's a clear sign of weakness! She was trying to be calm, feigning smiles and laughing from the start of the conversation but now she can't keep up that act, she has lost control and her anger is shining trough. From this point on, he had her, he should've just continued playing it cool and kept pushing her buttons.
He would've stayed calm and she would've been getting angrier and angrier. Just keep poking her with smart azz comments, treat her in a condescending manner but do it calmly and keep smiling, keep treating her like a little girl, don't take her seriously. Eventually, she would've lost all control and made a fool of herself, shouting at him etc. And he would've just kept laughing at her behavior, like "Calm down, you're all riled up and your head looks like it's gonna explode haha!"

But actually, the opposite of this happened. HE lost control and HE gets all riled up. Telling her "I'm not your dog and I'm not a little kid", sounds like a teenage boy going off at his mommy for trying to control his life etc. It's like he's looking for her validation, like he NEEDS her to treat him right. "I was nothing but cool to you until you started trying to tell me what to do!" That sh!t just sounds like he's hurt, also the tone of his voice when he says it. It's like an AFC who treated his oneitis like she was a queen, then when she breaks up with him and fvcks some bad boy, he goes like: "I treated you so well, why are you being so cruel to me?" THAT is how Joe sounds to me here...
"How about talking just as a human being, did you ever try that?" Man, it sounds like he actually meant: "How about TREATING me as a human being?"
It's totally weak, she got to him. And he's now kind of spilling his guts to her and communicating to her that she hurt his feelings... It puts him in a weak position and her in a dominant position, that's not good...

He should've remained calm and collected. Kept poking fun at her, kept pushing her buttons and rile her up until she would go off on him. But now the opposite happened!

He didn't take sh!t from her and stood up to her, which is obviously better than taking sh!t from her without putting up a fight. But it would've been even BETTER to calmly keep riling her up until she couldn't handle it anymore.

 

[Zunder]

We'll agree to disagree on this one, suffice to say I saw no where that he "lost control" as you put it . What? A man can't show his anger anymore by raising his voice? Frankly by the end of the conversation she was put in her place, dominated, shown up for the silly kunt she was, and she resorted to try to be all "nicey nice".

 

[Die Hard]

What? A man can't show his anger anymore by raising his voice?

Seriously? I just wrote down a pretty lengthy post where I explained several points to you, but you refuse to address any of those points and just reduce my opinion to "A man can't show his anger anymore by raising his voice"

Wow, my opinion of you just dropped to a low point, man. But whatever... I'm done here.

 

[VladPatton]

Oh yeah, that's a classic Joe Rogan vid. Love his Podcasts.

 

[Zunder]

Seriously? I just wrote down a pretty lengthy post where I explained several points to you, but you refuse to address any of those points and just reduce my opinion to "A man can't show his anger anymore by raising his voice"

Wow, my opinion of you just dropped to a low point, man. But whatever... I'm done here.

What an idiotic response. Because I didn't reply point by point to, to use your own words, "lengthy post", you go off on me and like a bytch? Harden the fvck up. I didn't "refuse" to address your points, I just couldn't be fvcked addressing them. What a fvcking cry baby.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

We'll agree to disagree on this one, suffice to say I saw no where that he "lost control" as you put it . What? A man can't show his anger anymore by raising his voice? Frankly by the end of the conversation she was put in her place, dominated, shown up for the silly kunt she was, and she resorted to try to be all "nicey nice".

He did lose control, because he lost control of the frame. He immediately stopped talking about whatever he was talking about, and started talking about what SHE decided they would talk about, about the eye contact.

When a woman tries to "steal your frame," the best response is not to get angry, not to sulk or walk away, but to just ignore her and keep on talking about whatever you were talking about as if she never said anything.

As soon as you "address her point," even if you "put her in her place," she wins, because she's controlled the "meaning of the conversation" which is the frame.

Don't get me wrong, I love the way Rogan rips on women, but as soon as you let THEM control the TOPIC of the conversation, you've lost the frame.

 

[Zunder]

He did lose control, because he lost control of the frame. He immediately stopped talking about whatever he was talking about, and started talking about what SHE decided they would talk about, about the eye contact.

When a woman tries to "steal your frame," the best response is not to get angry, not to sulk or walk away, but to just ignore her and keep on talking about whatever you were talking about as if she never said anything.

As soon as you "address her point," even if you "put her in her place," she wins, because she's controlled the "meaning of the conversation" which is the frame.

Don't get me wrong, I love the way Rogan rips on women, but as soon as you let THEM control the TOPIC of the conversation, you've lost the frame.

Ok, using a strict manosphere policy of "the frame" you make some decent points. But jeezuz, do you guys live your life by mansophere bullet points all the time? "Ooh I better not call her out because that means I be addressing her and I might be seen to lose the 'frame'".

I couldn't live like that. Sometimes, as the old cliche goes, a man gotta do what a man gotta do - and I applaud the way he, in my opinion, destroyed her. And in this instance, I say fvck "the frame".

But hey, taiyuu_otoko, its good to muse these opinions and a least you can make 'em without crying like a bytch like the previous poster. Your point's were well made, but I just don't agree with them entirely.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Ok, using a strict manosphere policy of "the frame" you make some decent points. But jeezuz, do you guys live your life by mansophere bullet points all the time? "Ooh I better not call her out because that means I be addressing her and I might be seen to lose the 'frame'".

I couldn't live like that. Sometimes, as the old cliche goes, a man gotta do what a man gotta do - and I applaud the way he, in my opinion, destroyed her. And in this instance, I say fvck "the frame".

But hey, taiyuu_otoko, its good to muse these opinions and a least you can make 'em without crying like a bytch like the previous poster. Your point's were well made, but I just don't agree with them entirely.

Well, the idea of "holding the frame" is much older than the "manosphere" (regardless of how gay that name sounds).

While you didn't initially make the point of frame control or a anything like that, I just think that, all things being equal (which they rarely are) MORE frame control is generally better than LESS frame control.

Also I have NO IDEA what that situation was, whether or not Rogan knew he was being filmed and for what purpose (he may have even "gone off" on that lady on purpose just to promote his image or personality, which would imply a much GREATER degree of frame control).

Frame control is ALWAYS contextual, based on your own intentions in the given environment.

However, I do hold to the notion that ignoring a women is a much better strategy than "calling her out," given the situations that most of us here on this board would find ourselves in. (akin to treating them like little kids who are misbehaving just to get attention)

When it comes to personal preferences, I see it more as a longer term strategy vs. a short term, in the moment strategy.

That being said, this is my all time favorite Rogan clip (hang on till 2:06):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU_3b2_33vI