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Don't Marry Career Women

DJDamage

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This article was posted on Pook's Mill, from Forbes Magazine.

http://www.forbes.com/2006/08/21/careers-marriage-dating_cx_mn_0821women_print.html

Guys: A word of advice. Marry pretty women or ugly ones. Short ones or tall ones. Blondes or brunettes. Just, whatever you do, don't marry a woman with a career.

Why? Because if many social scientists are to be believed, you run a higher risk of having a rocky marriage. While everyone knows that marriage can be stressful, recent studies have found professional women are more likely to get divorced, more likely to cheat, less likely to have children, and, if they do have kids, they are more likely to be unhappy about it. A recent study in Social Forces, a research journal, found that women--even those with a "feminist" outlook--are happier when their husband is the primary breadwinner.

Not a happy conclusion, especially given that many men, particularly successful men, are attracted to women with similar goals and aspirations. And why not? After all, your typical career girl is well-educated, ambitious, informed and engaged. All seemingly good things, right? Sure…at least until you get married. Then, to put it bluntly, the more successful she is the more likely she is to grow dissatisfied with you. Sound familiar?

In Pictures: Nine Reasons To Steer Clear Of Career Women

Many factors contribute to a stable marriage, including the marital status of your spouse's parents (folks with divorced parents are significantly more likely to get divorced themselves), age at first marriage, race, religious beliefs and socio-economic status. And, of course, many working women are indeed happily and fruitfully married--it's just that they are less likely to be so than non-working women. And that, statistically speaking, is the rub.

To be clear, we're not talking about a high-school dropout minding a cash register. For our purposes, a "career girl" has a university-level (or higher) education, works more than 35 hours a week outside the home and makes more than $30,000 a year.

If a host of studies are to be believed, marrying these women is asking for trouble. If they quit their jobs and stay home with the kids, they will be unhappy (Journal of Marriage and Family, 2003). They will be unhappy if they make more money than you do (Social Forces, 2006). You will be unhappy if they make more money than you do (Journal of Marriage and Family, 2001). You will be more likely to fall ill (American Journal of Sociology). Even your house will be dirtier (Institute for Social Research).

Why? Well, despite the fact that the link between work, women and divorce rates is complex and controversial, much of the reasoning is based on a lot of economic theory and a bit of common sense. In classic economics, a marriage is, at least in part, an exercise in labor specialization. Traditionally men have tended to do "market" or paid work outside the home and women have tended to do "non-market" or household work, including raising children. All of the work must get done by somebody, and this pairing, regardless of who is in the home and who is outside the home, accomplishes that goal. Nobel laureate Gary S. Becker argued that when the labor specialization in a marriage decreases--if, for example, both spouses have careers--the overall value of the marriage is lower for both partners because less of the total needed work is getting done, making life harder for both partners and divorce more likely. And, indeed, empirical studies have concluded just that.

In 2004, John H. Johnson examined data from the Survey of Income and Program Participation and concluded that gender has a significant influence on the relationship between work hours and increases in the probability of divorce. Women's work hours consistently increase divorce, whereas increases in men's work hours often have no statistical effect. "I also find that the incidence in divorce is far higher in couples where both spouses are working than in couples where only one spouse is employed," Johnson says. A few other studies, which have focused on employment (as opposed to working hours) have concluded that working outside the home actually increases marital stability, at least when the marriage is a happy one. But even in these studies, wives' employment does correlate positively to divorce rates, when the marriage is of "low marital quality."

The other reason a career can hurt a marriage will be obvious to anyone who has seen their mate run off with a co-worker: When your spouse works outside the home, chances increase they'll meet someone they like more than you. "The work environment provides a host of potential partners," researcher Adrian J. Blow reported in the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy, "and individuals frequently find themselves spending a great deal of time with these individuals."

There's more: According to a wide-ranging review of the published literature, highly educated people are more likely to have had extra-marital sex (those with graduate degrees are 1.75 more likely to have cheated than those with high school diplomas.) Additionally, individuals who earn more than $30,000 a year are more likely to cheat.

And if the cheating leads to divorce, you're really in trouble. Divorce has been positively correlated with higher rates of alcoholism, clinical depression and suicide. Other studies have associated divorce with increased rates of cancer, stroke, and sexually-transmitted disease. Plus divorce is financially devastating. According to one recent study on "Marriage and Divorce's Impact on Wealth," published in The Journal of Sociology, divorced people see their overall net worth drop an average of 77%.

So why not just stay single? Because, academically speaking, a solid marriage has a host of benefits beyond just individual "happiness." There are broader social and health implications as well. According to a 2004 paper entitled "What Do Social Scientists Know About the Benefits of Marriage?" marriage is positively associated with "better outcomes for children under most circumstances," higher earnings for adult men, and "being married and being in a satisfying marriage are positively associated with health and negatively associated with mortality." In other words, a good marriage is associated with a higher income, a longer, healthier life and better-adjusted kids.

A word of caution, though: As with any social scientific study, it's important not to confuse correlation with causation. In other words, just because married folks are healthier than single people, it doesn't mean that marriage is causing the health gains. It could just be that healthier people are more likely to be married.
 

Latinoman

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I don’t take as the “gospel” anything that comes from “soft science” (e.g. social science, etc.). Human behavior is so complex that it is impossible to come with “laws” (such as laws in physics) and everything is practically theories and “studies”.

All that said, at this stage of my life (and career) the only type of woman I would have in a SERIOUS relationship are those that

1-Have a career
2-Are independent
3-Have a college education
4-Make relatively good salary ($30K and over – and I although $30K might be in the low end, I included to not exclude women that work in Libraries or as teachers or Museums)
5-OR are College Student (under 30 years old) getting ready to become 1-4.

I find attractive a woman that is good at her job. I find attractive a woman that has career plan. And I find attractive a woman that can be independent and appear to be “strong” at her job.

All that said; I would avoid any woman that ambition for her career overshadows the respect she would have for her man. Those are the women that rather have a relationship with their career than with their man. And those are the women that lack “balance”.
 

wayword

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I don't think this is just knee-jerk anti-feminism, but the simple stats...

But actually, the problem is simply American female-chauvinist divas - with careers or not. Because there are plenty of NON-American career women whom you won't find these same divorce problems with.

And some non-degreed, lazy, self-entitled American hizzoe will also screw your azz over just as much, if not more, than a degreed one stackin' paper.

Frankly, I'd prefer one that makes at least enough to pay all her own bills and has no debt. Then, she will either keep working or can stay home and take care of kids if we have any. No staying at home watching Oprah without kids, though. If she ain't raising our kids, she better be out makin' bread.
 

Vulpine

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"Just, whatever you do, don't marry a woman with a career."


Forest through the trees. Let me simplify:

".....................................don't marry...................................."
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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Desdinova said:
Pretty lousy article IMO. There is no solid basis to avoid career women. It just sounds like a backlash on feminism.
I agree. Another report on the study of AFCs without the ability to effectively qualify their women. It's all about balance. Many women fall into the same trap of marrying career men who don't take the time to contribute to the relationship. It's much easier for anyone to gravitate toward an extreme rather than balancing self, family and career.
 

squirrels

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I don't know if marriage to a career woman is a big deal, but I would venture a guess that having two career parents causes issues when kids enter the picture.
 

Bible_Belt

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There is not room in a LTR for both careers to be a top priority. Eventually, one side will have a great job opportunity in another city and have to choose between career and relationship.
 

speed dawg

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Legally, in a divorce, you will get screwed over LESS by an independent career woman. The more you help out, pay for, support a woman, the more you lose if you get divorced. Rule of thumb.

The only part of that article that has a point is that it says working opens yourself up to potential partners. But WTF, you see people everyday. Somewhere somehow you have to have some responsibility and accountability. The article, all in all, is bullsh!t.
 

Latinoman

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Bible_Belt said:
There is not room in a LTR for both careers to be a top priority. Eventually, one side will have a great job opportunity in another city and have to choose between career and relationship.
And that's the trick. Define which career becomes the "top priority" under the understanding that this can change as people progress (e.g. Maybe I was the senior guy now so I am "priority"...and then she becomes a CEO changing priorities career wise).
 

Latinoman

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Legally, in a divorce, you will get screwed over LESS by an independent career woman. The more you help out, pay for, support a woman, the more you lose if you get divorced. Rule of thumb.
:yes:
 

Bad_Lil'Pixie

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Bible_Belt said:
There is not room in a LTR for both careers to be a top priority. Eventually, one side will have a great job opportunity in another city and have to choose between career and relationship.

I think that is a great point, however, it isn't only careers. Hobbies, extended family, children, friends, etc... Anything that takes priority over the LTR can cause deterioration.

I think both partners can balance careers as long as the institute of the relationship is always held in highest regard by both.

Should a move or decision of choice ever have to be made then the only option would be "what is best for our family/relationship", not "what is best for me".
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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Has anyone else noticed that almost all the threads in the forum which alludes to LTR's or marriage almost always focus on the relationship not working?
 

ElChoclo

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Yes there is a reason why the forum concerns itself with unsuccessful relationships. Because when you have a problem that's when you need information. When your car is working you don't need to know anything. When it breaks down you need to know what's wrong.

Women do not really believe in careers. Most of them think that they won't be working for their whole lives. When they find out that it goes on and on, they become unhappy.

A friend of mine had a wife who made 4 times what he could get, and then he got unemployed. Next thing you know she is playing around at work. He thought that cooking her meals and being the househusband was going to cut it. He just got married for the third time. She was wife number 1.

The truth is that capitalism is cheating people. They both need to work to get more money to buy more things. My grandfather had nine kids and a blue collar job and his wife never worked. How would you pull that one off today?

The fact is that the woman gets nothing from this. Traditionally the man got the satisfaction of providing for his family and they respected him. Traditionally the woman looked after the kids in return for what the man did. If she works too she isn't getting anything extra except money, in the past she would have had a husband even if she didn't work, though the man would not have a wife.
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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ElChoclo said:
Yes there is a reason why the forum concerns itself with unsuccessful relationships. Because when you have a problem that's when you need information. When your car is working you don't need to know anything. When it breaks down you need to know what's wrong..
You don't understand my observation; the posts here aren't of the concern of finding a solution, it's basically a b1tch-fest complaining about they just don't work or assuming that they won't work by default, they'd rather prepare for divorce.

Oh and as for capitalism, it's people misunderstanding of capitalism which screws them up. If they understood it they would have their own businesses and not depend solely on someone else's company to be their benefactor.
 

Latinoman

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A friend of mine had a wife who made 4 times what he could get, and then he got unemployed. Next thing you know she is playing around at work. He thought that cooking her meals and being the househusband was going to cut it. He just got married for the third time. She was wife number 1.
He should have gone to school...while she worked.

That way...he would have at least gotten something out of the deal.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Thoughts on the 'Professional Woman'

Most professional women are forced into an uncomfortable choice in life. Generally women in this demographic have decided to pursue a career at the sacrifice of caring for a family; some initially disdain the idea of being 'trapped' in a domestic life. Some are aware of this sacrifice and some are not. Most professional women swallowed the (all too common) ideology that "you can have it all", a 'rewarding' career, a family and an equally professional, equally intellectual husband that will respect her choosing the career path and equally share in what she perceives as his domestic duties. And like most professional women, at some point they come to realize this notion is false because the sacrifices required to attain this fantasy defeat it's own conditions. For example:

Timeline of the Professional Woman

At age 18 she's progressed through high school with a high GPA and her single mother or 2 parent family (rarely is it a single father) has raised her to believe she can go far and through the financial aid available only for women and/or the college fund her parents planned for her she's ready for college. Not a bad thing for a woman who's ready to actually meet the challenges of a University and a 'promising' professional career.

At age 24-26 she's achieved a bachelor’s or master’s degree, perhaps a doctorate by 28. But, more often than not though it's a bachelor’s and an expectation of professional respect in the professional world. 90% of professional women graduate with education, psychology, journalism or communication degrees. That's not to say some don't seek out careers in law or medicine, they do, but in far fewer numbers. Regardless of her education, her expectations are the same as her peers - once in the workplace she will be rewarded and respected. Unfortunately, in the professional world, things don’t go as smoothly as her Women's Studies teacher prepared her for. She discovers that to function as a professional she is also required to be responsible as a professional and more times than not, it's not all that 'rewarding'. In fact it entails a lot of rejection and a lot of hard work at the sacrifice of a personal life and personal relationships.

At 30 she sees the girlfriends she went to college with married and having their 2nd child. She still clings to the self-affirmation that her choice requires she have, but can't understand why she hasn't 'gotten it all' by now. She's single or may even be divorced at this point, but looking for that 'professional' and intellectual equal of masculinity that the fantasy sold her, yet it hasn't quite worked out that way. Most guys her age don't have the intellect she expects they should or they lack the status in their careers. Men more successful and mature aren't interested in her since she pales in comparison to the 22 y.o. women they seem to prefer.

At 35 she's achieved quite a bit in her career, but has no prospect for a family at this point. She enjoys reading the articles in the women's magazines that affirm what she thinks she experiences often enough - that men her age are juvenile with 'fragile egos' and only want to become involved with women in their 20's because they feel 'threatened' by a woman who would dare to be their equal. The truth being that men are hardly juvenile at this age, but rather calculating, they generally have a better understanding of what they want and what is satisfying for them after more than a few failed attempts and have learned how the game is played to a greater or lesser degree. Particularly professional men of the same or higher status than she, since they have more access to being particular with the women they choose to become involved with. They are aware that the 35+ y.o. professional woman's personality has been shaped by 12-15 years of expectations of 'having it all' and they are aware that she is generally not a good candidate to start a family with since he knows all too well the sacrifices and responsibilities necessary to achieve his own status. A career man rarely sees a career woman as a good choice for a wife or an LTR, not because he's 'threatened' by her status, but because he's known and worked with enough of them once he's reached 35+ years of age to steer clear of them.

Men typically could care less what a woman earns or what she does to earn it - it's simply not a factor in attraction for us - we don't take a woman's status or wealth into consideration, all she has to be is hot. That is a guy's one condition for intimacy, physical attraction. She's gotta be hot - whether she makes six figures or is in the pit of poverty is irrelevant in attraction. Oprah and Star Jone's husbands still have to get aroused, and all the money in the world wont be any better an aphrodisiac.

Status, wealth and the other rewards that result from 'professional' life are conditions women have for MEN in attraction. That's not to discount men being physically attractive or other conditions, but women have far more conditions for their intimacy than men, and these conditions are predicated on characteristics that prove a man as a good provider for her and any future offspring's security. These male characteristics (or sometimes just the prospects of a man attaining them) are defined by women as having value and are therefore attractive. Attractive enough to make a man with these qualities one to be competed over with other women. Women define what is masculine, they define what male traits have value for their investment of intimacy. Men define what is feminine, they define what female traits have value for their investment of their provision of security and meeting the condition criteria women place on them for their intimacy.

Women in the professional realm would like the conditions for attraction to be predicated upon their professional status (wealth), individual merit and/or aspects of their personal integrity, and a whole list of esoteric qualities, but they still fight against men's basic impulses - she's-go-to-be-hot! If a woman is attractive a man is more than happy to have her foot the bill regardless of comparative incomes, it's just icing on the cake for us, but this is analogous to a woman who marries a rich guy who also happens to be good looking.

On the flip side of the argument, most professional men are AFC Nice Guys, due to the fact that the demands of becoming a professional, educated male with talent, abilities, skills, required him to sacrifice his personal life, development of social skills and the ability for an honest estimation of his own worth with regards to women and what their own motivations are for different stages of their own lives.
 

blueguy

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I tend to agree with the article, but I wouldn't define a 'career woman' as one who makes more than 30k ($15/hr) a year and has a degree. I know plenty (if not most) of girls my age that do that, and they're nothing like career women. It's pretty much standard for 22+ girls now I'd say. I don't think I'd date a girl didn't have a job or still lived off her parents after 22... would anybody else?
 
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blueguy

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I guess I'm a moron then because I like to date girls who have a focus as the ones who don't and just sit at home all day or lack motivation are most often into drugs, are very lazy or fat or whatever. ;)
 

ElChoclo

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I see your distinction now Francisco. The problem with such a focus though is that nobody knows why there is a problem for sure, so I suppose all they do is complain about it.

Unfortunately Latinoman the married guy had received plenty of school, he just couldn't get a decent income from it at the time. Now he works in temporary jobs (which in his line of work last about as long as so called full time ones). For some reason he likes the high flyer types.

One of my LTRs had problems with her husband which she claimed were due to her changing to a higher status job. I don't know how true this claim is because women frequently claim that their husband is the one who is uncomfortable about them getting ahead. (Maybe he just doesn't want extra parent duties while they spend a lot of time hitting the books)

When a woman returns to study late in a marriage, a man is basically playing the role which her parents should have played when she was younger. You get a lot of women who go back to study because they're bored. Not too many men though.
 
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