Donjuanforever's Women Post

[DonJuanForever]

Since I am currently making "crying posts" I thought that I would start a discussion on this topic I posted as a reply in another thread.

This whole women debate thing is crazy.
One side says
1. Learn calcuation, seduction, and conversation skills greatly and then women will be all over you. This side is more woman-focused than self-focused. Sites like fastseduction.com and seducewomennow.com are great for this side.
The advantage is: The whole women thing becomes a game, and a game of how many women and what type of good looking women could you score with. You will sarge more, and because of your increased sarging and fastseduction's "what to do," you will have more comfortableness and confidence, and sarge more, and eventually you will score more. The disadvantage is: You will have to ignore your own soul and true personality. Since this side if woman-focused, or woman first, saying anything about yourself or doing things that you want to do is really out of the picture. It's all about what type of guys she likes (and becoming that), what she likes to do( and doing that), etc. You should get laid though, and if that's all you're after, this might be good for you.

The other side
2. Become a natural MAN. Since nature and biology has laws where just as we are crazy over natural women, women are crazy over natural men, period. The problem is that society, parents, school, etc., has damn near destroyed our true man-ness. The advantage in being a man is that now you become the prize and women now want to SEDUCE "you." Now its all about what you like (and she doing it), what type of girls you like (and she becoming more like that), etc., etc., she now listens to you talk and gives you back your trance words, etc. Here, you can basically have your purpose in life and the girls to, and actually more girls, and it actually feels like being in heaven when you are a man.

The disadvantage is: The path to becoming a man or "the man of your dreams" is kind of confusing, lonely, and could be difficult. I have done and can still use the seduction stuff, but I would rather do it naturally. The problem is, we don't seem to have a concrete process of what a man is, how to become one, etc. I have no problem going through a "change process" if I knew exactly what the hell that process was and what to do.....which is why becoming the MAN is kind of confusing. But once you become one, ohhhh baby, it's heaven on earth.

 

[GloriouslyInsane]

After i read through the whole venusian arts handbook i thought "what kind of bollocks is this?".I mean A1,2,3, etc? it stops being FUN for you if you think like that.Of course there are some nice tips in there like some negs and whatnot that i would use but never could think of and a detailed wingman guide that i'm testing tomorrow.

 

[GloriouslyInsane]

I don't like memorizing rules and whatnot cause simply,not every situation is identical,i may be this big pua with standard routines and comments but what if i hit an unique case? an answer/action i didn't expect?.If im a real man i would know how to respond,but if i was an "pua" i would go like "uhh..." pull my little notebook and scratch my head,and i don't like that.

 

[resilient]

It was funny to watch my Juggler workshop instructors make fun of the community. For the most part, they are ALL naturals, so they laugh at Mystery students who make seduction a science and not a art.

the f-close??

 

[MVPlaya]

I don't like memorizing rules and whatnot cause simply,not every situation is identical,i may be this big pua with standard routines and comments but what if i hit an unique case? an answer/action i didn't expect?.If im a real man i would know how to respond,but if i was an "pua" i would go like "uhh..." pull my little notebook and scratch my head,and i don't like that.

Since when are being a real man and being a PUA exclusive to one another. If I get an answer/action I didn't expect, I *gasp* adapt.


People have the most laughable complaints against PUA'ism: fake smiles, fake stories, can't say anything outside routines.

Everything you guys are discussing is a beginner's mistake, welcome to four years ago.

-MV

 

[GloriouslyInsane]

What im trying to say i don't want to be thinking "ok so im in a2 now i have to dhv and then soi and if i get an ioi i do X then Y" etc which is (at least in a big part) what venusian arts is trying to teach.I liked the introduction,the neg,ioi examples ,the whole "mentality" behind what the book says "like bait-hook-real-release" and compliance tests etc but i do not see it beneficial to do everything in mathematical accuracy,consistency and in a standardized procedure.

 

[MVPlaya]

After i read through the whole venusian arts handbook i thought "what kind of bollocks is this?".I mean A1,2,3, etc? it stops being FUN for you if you think like that.Of course there are some nice tips in there like some negs and whatnot that i would use but never could think of and a detailed wingman guide that i'm testing tomorrow.

You're not seeing past the jargon and rhetoric. And thats understandable, its where most people who complain about MM get caught up. They list a series of terms and think to themselves "this is not normal," but thats where they're completely wrong. I could explain the M3 model to you in perfect lay man's terms and recognizable concepts we've all learned over the years. Mystery could do the exact same thing, but there's a reason he doesn't, and thats because the PUA community commodifies and markets human interaction so that they create fame and make money. Juggler is no exception to this.

Let me explain the M3 model in lay man's terms.

"The way you gotta meet chicks is to go out and find them outside in parks, clubs, bars, and stuff. Problem is, they're always gonna be surrounded by friends, and if you're just gonna walk up to a girl whose got 4 guys and girls around her, they're gonna wonder what you're doing there, the girl is gonna be uncomfortable, and people might vibe bad. Thats why its better than if you approach, you don't just straight hit on one of their girls and ignore the others, engage the group, get to know em and make friends with them so they're cool with you. After you've done that, then start focusing on the girl and talk to her."

Its not the entirety of the model and its not all-inclusive, but thats Mystery Method, and thats natural. Of course, Mystery doesn't like to post his FR's this way, using jargon makes it appear you're working with some form of dating magic, it makes it appear like you're pioneering something brand new, and it makes people look at your posts like they're groundbreaking. What Mystery has done is take simple forms of social interaction and put them together in a way that allows you to hit on women who are in groups.

A problem with a lot of "be natural" posts is that, for new people, they have no idea how the **** to do it. See DJForever's OP. They need a model to follow, they don't have extensive social experience and still suffer various forms of social phobias. Things like M3 can set them on track, but also give them a model to understand interaction by. The A1 phase in M3 is ****ing solid for when I'm out of town and I want to meet some guys to network with and wing with, its a great way to meet people, and its a solid way to be the center of attention.

You can obviously approach a girl with direct game, or only approach women who "invite" you via body language, but there's some simply problems with that. 1) Direct Game only works if the girl is alone. Her friends aren't interested in sitting there being shut out while you mack on their friend, so you need a girl thats is attractive and alone (this narrows your options immensely). 2) Waiting on women to be attracted to you only works if you're a well-groomed attractive male. The other day in BART (thats the bay are subway system equivalent) I saw this girl send me IOI's (tell me she's attracted via body language) and I sat next to her, we chatted, I didn't use any routines and made her chase, and she even 'accidentally' missed her stop and stayed with me so she could close. Was it fun? Sure. Is this 100% reliable? Hell no. The only reason she approached me was because of my looks and confidence, this can work pretty well, but when I'm in a club with 100 other guys, you have to be kidding yourself to think that hot 10 surrounded by 4 friends is just dying to meet you, you need to try something new. MM allows you to work different social settings. There's nothing inherently wrong with a direct 1-on-1 pickup, Mystery does it himself to and tells women "I really want to meet you" or something equivalent to that, and it works, but he can only do it in select situation where various criteria are met. Mystery Method helps you get into that 1-on-1 situation and meet those criteria where the normal flow of social interaction in the room wouldn't have done it for you.

-MV

 

[Stackthestyles]

Label me! Label me!!!

I am dead in the middle. I preach to both sides, and I practice what I preach. Nevermind that I can't preach very well, and I never condone preaching.

Do me, do me!

I want to know how you feel about people who enjoy the balance of life.

 

[MVPlaya]

Every player has rules, they're just different rules.

 

[CompleteControl]

This whole women debate thing is crazy.
One side says
1. Learn calcuation, seduction, and conversation skills greatly and then women will be all over you. This side is more woman-focused than self-focused.

The other side
2. Become a natural MAN.

YOU just don't get it - do you? It's all designed to do the same thing.

It is all about being a natural, confident MAN.

Naturals act in a way that is attractive to women.

Successful, rich, famous men act in a way that is attractive to women.

The whole seduction community teaches clueless men to begin to emulate men that act in a way that is attractive to women.

MM, SS, Gunwitch, Juggler, SoSauve can all work. They can all set you on a path to success with women.

They are a beginning, a methodology - they should not be the goal.

Being the best YOU that you can be and being natural and confident in THAT - IS the goal. Many men need a path to follow to reach that.