Don Carnegie: The Great Mindset (I-III)

[Cloud-uk]

- I posted this is the HS forum but someone pointed out that people here may get more from it, so I've stuck the first three parts in this post, and i'll add the final 3 when i've done them.

Part I

Introduction:
Another post on mindset- why? Why fill this board with more abstract ideas and advice that seem to have very little to do with getting some girl you want?

Regression. Recently I've noticed that a good many people have complained that, upon stopping for a second and looking at where they are, they're not happy. In fact, they're fatigued, frustrated, angry and confused. These boys have I am sure put in a heroic effort but progressed a mediocre amount, or shot off but suddenly and bitterly come across an obstacle or setback that killed off their mack. A relapse for someone who has had a taste of what they could achieve is like the fate of Tantalus in Greek mythology, the eternal torment of having what we know we can have out of our reach.

If you are getting out there and doing your best, but either can't seem to get back to your previous heights or progress to where you want to be, I feel the following story will be of service:

" A man took his son out into their garden one day, sat him next to him and asked him "What is impossible to a man?". The son replied, "Nothing father, you have always taught me that a man can do anything if he desires it". The old man laughed "A textbook answer my boy, but let's see if you really understand". He gestured towards a huge pile of timber in the center of the garden, lit a cigarette and placed his matches on the arm of the bench on which they were sitting. "Son, there is £100 in a metal box under that timber. Remove the timber with your hands. I know you want it, so you should be able to get it". The son tried to shift the timber with his hands for the rest of the day, but the logs were to heavy and he managed nothing. Eventually he lay down exhasted, ready to quit. "My son, when we told you that anything is possible if you want it to be we said this because you are a man! Men can do anything not because they are the most determined of all animals, but because they can think! Running headfirst at a problem only produces results when you stop and realise it isn't working". The Old man handed the boy his box of matches. "It's the hand that strikes the match, no?". The next morning, when the fire had died down, the son could easily get hold of the prize that had been denied to him the day before."

So I emplore anyone who is frustrated with relapsing to a previous state or their lack of progress to throw any thoughts of quitting out the window. This will be a 6 part series, each one dealing with 5 points of Dale Carnegie's 'How to Make friends and Influence People'. This book is a lot about technique, but it will be used to tease out the mindset that we should all cultivate. Let me summarise by saying this- if you've put in the work and time, and not got enough out of it, then you're in trouble at the core. If the girls aren't happeneing, then you're giving off the wrong vibe. This is down to all down to you. Take a weekend, blitz it, and you really could get your mack back on track.

Part 1:

Each Part will take this format, I'll explain the point(s), grouped if they convey the same message, and when all 6 come together it should give you all a lot to think about. I know, the temptation is just to say "bah! I've got this all down to a letter, this isn't my problem". You may well be right, I am no judge, but I ignored advice like this about myself, and upon later reflection I found my advisors to be totally right. I'll try to keep it concise now the intro is done with, so i strongly recommend buying a copy of the book if you like what you read, especially from a techniques point of view.


1) Don't Criticise
2) Praise

Perhaps the most prominant influence on your state of mind, and thefore what is holding you back at the moment, is culture. Culture, at present, has two overwhelming messages. The first is be nice, and we all know where that gets you. The other is be a badass. What do i man by that? I mostly mean the gangsta thing, the way people are respected for having short fuses, killing people who speak bad about them, being hard.

"Toy Soldiers", the Eminem song, illustates this nicely. One thing races through my mind when I hear that video, and that is sensitivity. Really, the first thing you need to do for your mindset is to try your damn hardest to get rid of all the hate and anger and grudges you may hold. Don't think you have any? So did I until I realised I had a prejudiced hatred of Christians. If I missed something that big please try to give it a few minutes of your time. If you've ever said you'll kill someone in revenge, or still want to beat someone up for something, drop it. Drop it now.

Bullies from the present or past, *****es of ex-girlfriends, parents that walked out on you, the guys that tormented you when you were an AFC- Drop it all. I'm athiest, but Jesus and Gandi were both onto something huge when they preached this stuff. Hatred and anger do not arise from other people. They arise because of your insecurities. You will never be the man you should be if you hold on to hate.

Wiping the slate clean can be very hard, and it is something best done with action. Sincerely try to reconcile with anyone you hate. If you can't you need to work at it some more. It doesn't matter if they respond well, all that matters is that they don't matter to you anymore.

Abstaining from wanton criticism and the giving of praise are the external expressions of someone who is secure inside. We will come back to this a lot, so make sure you sit down after reading this, write down those that you hate, and do your best to sort yourself out.


3) Arouse desire

With hate gone the next point of call is to refine your views on other people. I know, this is supposed to be all about you, and it is. This is about how you feel. Put the sheet of names of people you have hated one side and find yourself a copy of the film "Citizen Kane" by Orson Welles. After watching it concider to yourself "Do I set out to make people like me, or make people want to like me?".

There is a simple but monumental point here. When you set out to attract girls or make friends, do you take the view "These people WILL like me! I WILL get this girl in bed!"? This is the view Kane took, and he ended his life alone. Consider, has all you have been doing to progress yourself been to make people like you? Or have you been doing it to become a better person? The first time I saw this question, I dissmissed it as stupid- we are here to get girls, we change to get girls. Now I understand the real point of it, and I am left with trouble articulating it. It is not a question about who you are improving for, it is a question about what vibe you give off. People will never be made to do anything they don't want to (except by gunpoint), and this includes the fairer sex. If you go up to a girl thinking "Hey, I'm a built, sexy, teststerone fuled male so she will like me!", she'll smell it a mile off and you will get nowhere. If you walk up thinking "Hey, I'm happy with the way I look, and bet that girl will like me when I talk to her", I would put money of success being higher. Just read the two statements- who do you prefer!

What is the difference? The first thought of of a guy who has changed to MAKE girls like him like they are mere machines. You can't force the mack! This is a terrible mindest. The second is of a guy who has changed himself to be happy, and to LET girls want him! This is the difference, and the second will succeed because he is arousing desire in his target, not forcing it or expecting it

 

[Cloud-uk]

4) Be genuinely interested in people
5) Smile

Finally, now you made the first step towards trashing your insecurities and your first step towards seeing others the way they should be seen a first step must be made to salvage the exact same thing that got you into this mess in the first place.

DETERMINATION!

No one ****s up quite as hard as you without really putting some balls into it! Like the story at the top, it takes a lot of screwing up to admit there's a problem.

Now, you have to start to get it into your mind that macking is fun, even though it is sucking at the moment. Imagine you are a musician who has forgotten how to play. The first few lessons will be savage and totally un-harmonious. But you will stick at it not because you love gettng tossed off or wetting your di<k, but because you love the mack!

If you are a disgruntled virgin, this one is for you- it's wet, smelly and looks scary. Woooo! There is no art to getting tossed off. Get it into your head that PEOPLE ROCK! I'm serious, the girl that is sitting on the hole is where it's at! Sure, if it ends in sex you know you've done a good job, but ask me this- what would you honestly prefer? The macking, conversation, flirting, feeling of being "in the zone", "untouchable", and ending it all with some passionate sex, and waking up in the morning feeling like a king? Or hireing a hooker. If you were just in this for the ass that's would be where you'd be amigo.

So ENJOY IT! People are for the best part interesting! Get it into your head that macking is one of the most fun things on earth (next to snowboarding and making money for me) and renew your enthusiasm. If you enjoy the job, people can tell. What can i say, getting ass isn't a chore, and it isn't something you have to do to be a man. Da Vinci didn't give a crap about girls, but he was a top bloke. Flavor Flav does, and he isn't. Nuff said.

Brush your shoulders off. Perhaps you were disapointed in yourself prior to this post, but that just means you know you can do better. And that is what makes it fun! The challenge! Now I know damn well you're going to talk to some fine girl before you read the next part, so when you do make sure you are feeling it. Jack **** may come from that conversation, but just as long as that fire gets lit in your chest, the fire that burns when you're doing something you enjoy you're on the right track. Soon we'll work at making it something you love.

 

[Cloud-uk]

Part 2:

In this, the second part, we will look at the second five topics of Carnegie's book. Please the preceding part if you have not done so already, and reply with what you think of it. I would gladly expand on parts that I have not articulated well.

So far, the mindset I am evangelising is one of enjoyment, passivity and helping of others. It's not sounding very Don Juan at the moment is it! However, I will expand.

The areas of Carnegie's book to be looked at now are:
1) Remember names
2) Listen intently
3) Talk to your audience's interests
These will be used to further explain a love for macking
4) Make them feel important
This will be used to explain the way you should think about others
5) Avoid argument
This will be used to explain when confontation should be used

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1) Remember names
2) Listen intently
3) Talk to your audience's interests

As I said previously, being a "Don Juan" should be fun. I'm sure if things aren't going so well you know they aren't because you aren't enjoying things. This is a vicious cycle. If you aren't truely -loving- macking onto a girl, she'll pick it up. No one wants to sit there while the other person conveys the message "I'm not attracted to you" right in their face, which is what you'll be inadvertently doing.

Let's clarify this common mistake in mindsets too, and solve a dilema at the same time. Ok- so you've got the love-stricken AFC who heaps affection on a girl, which is bad. Then you've got a slightly stand offish Don who a girl can't pin down, which is good. But isn't showing you are attracted to a girl good? I'm going to stop now, but you get the idea.

Well let's look at the lessons to illustrate the answer. Firstly, we all like girls, we all want girls. Let's not divulge into the depths of asexuality here and ride that masculinity! You are here because you want girls, now sit down and spend 10 minutes making sure that when you go up to a girl you make it damn sure that she knows and you know that you are there because you find her attractive. How? AFC adoration perchance? NO! You just need to get it into your head that it's ok to find a girl attarctive. If you start phrasing that like "I want to **** her" or "I want to marry her", you need more work, because if you're swinging one of these ways you're missing out on part of the experience.

You will let her know this, which is the natural thing to happen, by enjoying being with her. She'll feel happy, you'll feel happy, and as long as you get in the sexual stuff like kino you're set. If you want to mix in with some of the unpredictable shenanegans it goes in later as a singular point. Basicly, you act attracted but then do something that raises doubt, not vice versa.

Back to the lessons, I wish to use this point to explain further to idea in Part I about making people want to be attracted to you, "letting them want to have your babies".

If there were two men, one who wanted to make people like him and the other who wanted to let people like him, they would both handle a conversation with a sexy lady totally differently. The first would try to hit home how great HE was, and sell himself as a great person to get jiggy with. He would try to get her to like him. Of course, as I said before, people never do anything other than what they want to do.
The second would do what Carnegie suggests. He would talk about the girl, he would let her talk, he would also give her the common courtesy of making an effort to remember her name. Why? Out of some contrived play to get her to like him? Rubbish! Why should he like to talk about himself? To a man with self worth, you are the most dull topic anyone can talk about! You do not need your ego stroked, and you will learn nothing new, so why converse over it?
No, this lesson comes from true self-esteem and love for macking. Loving the mack you can sort out now, but helping your self-esteem is something we will need to talk more about. Just remember, you should be talking to the girl about herself not to screw her, but because you are interested.

As a side note, if you forget all she says other than her name it will be of more importance to her than vice versa. That is how much effort you should make on remembering that fact. Why? Because you love it!

4) Make them feel important

This is a relatively minor point, though it is one central to Carnegie's technique. I'm sticking it in now because to forget it is suicide. FOR MY WORD KEEP YOUR HUMILITY. You may be reading some great stuff here, and you may soon become a better seducer than all your mates, but that does not make you better than them. That said, you wouldn't be better than them should you be king of the world and they your subjects, that's just the way of things. They are however different. If you really take this series to heart and trancend the rat race of seeking support, acceptance and most of all importance to fortify your flagging self-esteem, remember that others have not.
I hope on my word you will read this and it will help. I hope you sort out your mind and build your self esteem up. However, even if you don't need acceptance or ego-stroking, others do. Give it to them and they will pave your way with gold, deny them it and they will go out of their way to trip you up. Remember this, don't get ****y or complacent, but remember other people probably don't think like you.

5) Avoid Arguement
I WANT ATTENTION TO BE DRAWN TO THIS! If you are finding it hard to get anything to work I have to say it is more than likely down to self esteem. If you truely don't have it, no matter what you think, it will taint your attempts in anything.

What separates the successes from the stagnations on this site is self-esteem.

Think that one through, if you are finding things difficult, or ineffective, this is probably the reason. Remember too that acting confident or even arrogant does not mean you are. I was told by my friend that under my ****y front she thought i was still quite sensitive inside. YOU NEED A FEMALE FRIEND IS ALL I CAN SAY! Those girls can smell a **** in the well, and sensitivity, low self-esteem, lack of self belief- these a real floaters.

I'm going to go all out on this, because I need to.

Why argue? Really, why? I must say now I'm divorcing all talk here from professional life in general, but even there does this apply. Argueing is the voice of the insecure. You don't make someone change their mind by argueing, all you manage to do is reinforce your beliefs and encourage him to stoop to your level to reinforce his. Why do you try to reinforce it? To look big, because really you weren't totally sure or you needed the ego boost.

I want you to sit down and think about how frequently you argue, you get emotional, you lash out, you shout, you wish hurt on another, you cry even. These bursts of emotion are the reflexes of a sensitive, insecure person.

One little point here, violence goes into this category for the best part too. If you hit someone because of something they said or did, it is showing it got to you. If it got to you you are insecure. Of course, that crap about ignoring it mothers shovel down their son's throats is crap too, it doesn't stop you being insecure. If you don't like what someone is saying about you look at yourself and work out how they are hitting a nerve. Of course, for me violence is all fine and dandy if you're doing it professionally. This is no mindset for pussies here, this is a real mindset for men who act and do business, not take it out on someone when they get called names. Think about this for a second, if you've ever kicked someone's ass in HS it was probably because you were being a wimp.

Back to the point at hand, a high self-esteem will mean that you don't need to validate yourself to others. If you're not trying your hardest to tell everyone you are great, because no one really needs to know it but you, you can try making other people feel good instead. Why? Because you can do that by talking with them, and you will grow to love that.

I bet there has been at least one point in your life recently that you have felt a need to "stand up for yourself", and you've wanted to hurt someone because what they said made you feel bad.

If they have then there is something about yourself you are not happy with or have not accepted yet.

I will finish this later on, but at the moment, come to accept, if the above applies to you, that your self esteem is holding you back because you thought you could out think what you feel. Accept the problem and get ready to solve it.

 

[Cloud-uk]

Part 3:

By now there should be three big ideas coming through from this series: Those are: Enjoying other people, Giving people what they want, and Having great self-esteem.

Over the first two parts I believe I have given you all enough to re-kindle a love for macking and enjoyment of other people. It shouldn't be hard, it is fun. You can pretty much tick of this column that will support the new you.

The true nature of being attractive is to give people what they want. People have needs, and these needs may be convoluted and illogical, but they always make sense. Emotional needs. This is where the AFC falls astray! People are emotional things, and you should never get angry at the way they don't follow your hypotheses and logical ideas. Go with it. As previously I made a distinction between making someone like you and letting someone like you, I intend to elaborate on this part of the mindset (how you percieve other people) in due course.

For the moment though, the next five points of Carnegie's book will be used mostly to help you further understand the need to foster an unbreakable level of self esteem, and what this really means.

Part 3:
1) Never say "you're wrong"
2) When you're wrong, admit it
3) Begin in a friendly way
4) Get the person saying "yes, yes"
5) Let the other person do the talking

I will split up 1,3 & 4 and 2 & 5 into two groups for this part. Previously, I have mostly talked about theory, I will now try to set out ideas for cultivating the required mental states in your minds.
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1) Never say "you're wrong"
3) Begin in a friendly way
4) Get the person saying "yes, yes"

This part is about giving people what they want. First, why do this? Why help other people in this way?
Well, firstly the whole of the Don Juan principles are built on this secretly altruistic concept.

At this stage I would also like to point out a distinction i would like to make throughout all of this series, that of the difference between emotional and profesional life. This whole series is about your emotional side, your social side of friends and girls and family. I hope you have enthused yourself with motivation to better this side by now, by realising you can love people. I will say little about the profesional side, be this bussiness, school or emplyment, but only your sense can enthuse your perticular situation with motivation. I hope you do, as the two sides complement each other, and being good with people will help your professional side, and your success at a job will help your emotional side a huge deal. think of it as the "fourth pillar", your competence. Being good at something backs up all the right things you will feel and therefore show, and vice versa.

Let's dispel a myth here, nice guys aren't nice. Nice guys act so disgustingly door mat-ish and aquiescent to try and get *****. And they do it badly. The AFC is the most selfish of men. Next come *******s, who at least provide the girl witha bit of testosterone fueled satisfaction. Of course, we're number one because we make everyone around us feel good (if they let us, no stopping some hater folk ). So you should feel up for this, people are great and all that. Now you need to get it into your head that we're not showing of for girls, nor are we getting better to be good enough for them. We are understanding that all people want stuff, and when we give it to them we have the enjoyment of interaction. So number 3, talk to people in a friendly way because the chances are you're about to make you both happier. Act friendly, and you make people feel good, and you will enjoy each other more. Also, get them agreeing with you, saying "yes yes". Like I said in the last part, why argue? You have nothing to prove in the subjective world of emotions and people. Really go out there to get unity with other people, not grate or clash with other personalities. Even haters, it doesn't amtter if it doesn't work, but calm down and get them to open up their ideas with you, and do this by accepting what they have to say.

So get it into your head that you want this to get better, and there are loads of people in your classes that I bet you already have down as haters or ****s or losers. Get out there and talk to them, not out of soem sort of social league pity or out of "playing a game", but with the goal of fulfilling their needs. You'll be able to work out what tehse are with ease, but if you are having trouble, rememebr, a lot or people want to feel important. Do it, geting ***** on your **** isn't just about you, it's about interaction, and what you want to accomplish when you talk is what will shape your mind, not sitting in your bedroom mulling over this while you wank into a sock. Which is good advice for life actually.

The obvious opposite to this is telling people they are wrong. Why do it? Honestly, why hurt someone's pride, make them dislike you, go defensive and feel bitter? Is that what you want to be making someone feel? No, people don't have a need to be falsified, so just don't.

Get it into your head now that as far as the emotional, shagging side of your life goes, you'll get places by letting people feel good around you. That doesn't mean selling yourself, and that doesn't mean correcting other people so that they so how clever you are. It means making people feel good. Being good looking can make people feel good, but personality will work a whole lot better. So if you are thinking that perhaps you're looking at attracting girls from the entirely wrong perspective right now, have a think- do you correct people unnecessarily? Do you aim to make people like you as opposed to get people feeling good? Do you see a good looking girl and think- "Right, I'm going to show her how great I am and then i'm going to close and blam!" or do your think- "Right, she's attractive, I'm going to make her feel attractive"? Basic example, but i hope it gets the point across.

("But what about those stuck up girls who know they are good looking?" I hear you cry. The same still applies, except that these girls aren't looking to feel attractive, they're looking to feel excited. Why? Because legions of AFC admirers get boring. Give it to them."

 

[Cloud-uk]

2) When you're wrong, admit it
5) Let the other person do the talking

Now, to the second point, the all powerful point of self-esteem. It matters so hugely because people who are unsure about themselves crave validation and praise from others. Giving praise and validation is frequently boring. Therefore people that lack confidence aren't as much fun to talk to.

Now let's just see what having self-esteem means to us. We don't want to go overbaord and become arrogant fools, and we don't initially care about the ******d dispays of self-esteem that Carnegie talks about. No, we want a clear definintion so that we can go out and get this elusive characteristic, then come back home and get some ass.

All it is is Accepting yourself and securing this acceptance.

Simple. Sit down and write hard and long about who you are. I mean this, this is not a very labour intensive series but this you should do! Don't be modest or shy, everything. Get out all your fears and dislikes to, whether is it hate of old enemies, anger at people calling you camp, embarrising habits, everything you can possibly commit to paper, and keep going. The more honest you are here the more ***** you will end up getting, so go all out.

Now, look at the paper. First cross out all the stuff you accept and are happy with. Being good at work for example. Now, if you have any hates or enemies look back at part one. Get rid of them, ask them out for a drink or something, just break the cycle. Cross them off. Now The rest should be stuff that makes you unhappy, or that you are not able to accept. In the case of what other's say, think that perhaps they are just hitting a nerve. If you don't like people saying you're think for example, you're probably not thick. Find the one's where the fault is at you believing lies. Cross them out, people can be ****s. Finally you should be left with areas of your person that you have not come to accept. You may concider yourself to be weak in body. You may concider yourself to be too shy, or you may hate being a virgin, or you may be disgusted by some of the pornography you watch (hey- be honest). Now really think these one's over, as most of it won't matter, for example the virgin one shouldn't even be here, you only think that because of what other people say, and so it should be scribbled out. Try to bring out into the open and accept all the little things that make you you. Realise that you may be unwilling to put down virgin as a part of "who you are", but it is (at the moment). Get it out there!
Now, you will be left with some points that you find unacceptable. These will be unacceptable because they are changeable, and you have done nothing about them. No one would ever put down something like "disabled" or "gay" in this select list (my god was that a poor juxtaposition of words!). These could well be how you are crap at school work, how you have no muscles, how you eat snot which is disgusting or how you procrastinate all the time.

You will only have a few of these, but provided you can accept all the other facets of your person, thee are the bastards that are holding you back form being happy in yourself.

Now you have to sort them out. Now, I'm writing thsi mostly for people who have had a set back or regression, and you guys have the advantage of having sorted most of this out already- you will have made yourselves look good and sorted out your school work. Still do this, I'm sure you may be able to dispell unfounded uncertainties you've had or accpet something you had been denying. You may find one or two real things you are unhappy about, so go and solve them with the determination the task deserves.

And so, what is that whole exercise about? Admitting you're wrong. Admitting there are things about yourself you're not happy with, and then correcting it. Same idea with people.

Finally, let other people talk. Why? Because people want to do this all the time, so they mock do it with other people. If you are happy with yourself, you wont need to talk about yourself. So you can sit back and let the other person chat, because a good talker listens more. I've basicly gone over this point in part one, but I hope now you can see where it all stems from. Be the man you are happy with, and you will find you can make people feel as good as you feel too.

End Parts I-III

 

[yunghova35]

i forgot to reply to this, good stuff, cant wait for you to finish it