Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Dodging dysfunctional people seems like the core of healthy dating...

squirrels

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Wait_out said this in another thread and it got me thinking..."dysfunction" seems to be everywhere in modern society. And it's not just women...hell, I consider MYSELF dysfunctional in some ways. I'mm willing to bet a lot of us are. (Otherwise, would we be here?)

Why is this so prevalent in the dating world today? Why are we all such a mess?

Were prior generations like this? Or is this a recent phenomenon? What the hell has spoiled our dating generation? And how do we fix it? CAN we fix it? Or is it too deeply rooted at this point?

Have people gotten more neurotic over recent years? Or have I just gotten more observant?
 

jophil28

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squirrels said:
Have people gotten more neurotic over recent years? Or have I just gotten more observant?
Both.
You are indeed observing a decrease in standards in our interactions with others.
 

L B

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Avoid red flags to avoid drama. Seems about right.
 

High Voltage

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Dysfunctional people are so common in the dating world because, in general, that's all that's left.

GIRL SIDE
If you're a decent looking girl you'll get hit on regularly. If you're not a psycho you'll be kept. Breakups happen, but not very often compared to how long they'd be in a relationship. So decent-looking, nice-personality girls are off the market WAY more than they are on it.

GUY SIDE
Guys who can get girls and want an LTR are obviously out of the dating pool fast. Players remain and hit on all the girls. Nice guys remain but don't hit on any girls. This (partially) explains why all single girls constantly complain about the players out there; players are the only guys that hit on them.

So what are guys like us left with? Ugly and/or fat and/or psycho girls, or hot psycho girls are the most common.

It's like fishing; you throw back the ones you don't want, then someone else catches them.

I've left a lot out of this theory since no one likes to read a book :p
 

Scaramouche

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Dear Jophil,
"You are indeed observing a decrease in standards in our interactions with others."I think this is inevitable,as more and more communication is through electronic mediums....can I ask a question of the group out there?......Thinking back about the disfunctional people one meets,have you noticed any marked difference in the left and right hemispheres of their faces....I have....as a matter of interest I believe there are studies that indicate that girls with with very similar,left and right sides are found more attractive to males,than those with marked differences....another study I recall showed young babies are friendlier with such people....some survival mechanism at work?
 

Falcon25

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I find this day and age to be very different and more negative then lets say late 90's and early 00's. Something happened for the worse. Women are acting like men, men are like women. I wish things were the way they were. Something definately changed for the worse with dating.
 

DJ SO STEVE

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@ Falcon25

You're not the only one who thinks that way bro. Things are very different, and it's only gonna get worse. We can only adapt by educating ourselves and understanding our surroundings.
 

Jitterbug

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It's definitely getting worse.

Well, dodging messed up chicks is my #1 skill. My other skills with women are nothing to write home about, but I have a nose for red flags and I'm quick to run away from them. It's something I learned from my Dad - he's very good at detecting signs of a batsh!t crazy woman, to the point that he almost sounds paranoid, but is always right.

I'm glad that while I've run into many crazies, I've never been affected by any of them and always got out of it in one piece.

squirrel, I don't have any direct answer to your questions, but they remind me of something I read about TV shows. Do you notice that there was a turning point a number of years ago when dysfunction became cool on TV? Prior to that, you may get some people who are a little wacky or eccentric, but at the core, they're normal and decent people. Now, every show has people who are full on nuts, but their dysfunction is portrayed as "cool", and excused as "who/whose family isn't crazy/dysfunctional?". Well, bollocks to that.

That, and the death - with not even a whimper - of shame & personal responsibility in society.
 

Razor Sharp

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People are broken.

Society is broken. We have created a rift from ourselves, every day recognizing less and less that man in the mirror - each passing week more isolated and distant from each other thanks to superficial modes of communication, and an outright selfish outlook on life.

Back in the day we were connected to the land and each other, by necessity. You would grow your own food, maybe do some hunting with your crew and then tell stories around the fire. You looked everyone in your social circle in the eye and knew who they were. There was no battle of the sexes because each gender did what it was best at without worrying about terms like "equality" or "chauvinism".

Even after the industrial revolution we stuck together and relied very much on family/community. But gradually that all changed. We were handed everything instead of working for it, and as a result each generation has become progressively more spoiled and ungrateful to their parents/roots. That's the ironic thing about getting what you want all the time. No matter what you get you are never happy, and end up resenting the very people who give it to you. Compounding the situation you continue to demand more to fill the void within - that empty space created by the lack of character which comes from easy living, and placing a ridiculous amount of importance on stupid bullsh*t that doesn't matter.

Ultimately, we have been divided and conquered by our own desires. We like to blame "The Man", Illuminati, Rothschilds, Bush, Obama - but we did this to ourselves. Nobody put a gun to our head and told us to hole up in our houses watching endless hours of "programming". No one forced us to forget our roots and families. Nobody twisted our arms to buy tons of sh*t we don't need. And therein lies the crux of dysfunction:

A total failure to be accountable for what you do.

When you really look at it, the most f*cked up people out there walk around with the assumption that they are victims, never seeing how they victimize themselves and others. It's a complete disconnect from reality - these folks really believe the entire universe is out to get them (or owes them some cosmic favor) and they are some sort of messiah with a cross to bear. It's f*cking insane!

This is why, for me, the number one red flag of anyone I meet is the inability to admit wrong, say I'm sorry, or just be open to a different point of view that challenges the loop of circular thinking that most folks carry around in their heads. The biggest symptom of this is people who simply do not listen. Oh sure, they hear you out of social courtesy, but there is no dialogue. They are just waiting for you to finish talking so they can pick up right where they left off with their tired monologues. There is no thirst for something new, that child-like curiosity which once made their eyes shine with energy and charisma has long been dead and buried by habit, ritual and spiritual self-denial.

A functional person is one who completes their function on this world - which is

TO EVOLVE.

You can only do that by embracing change instead of fearing it. Such a person not only hears what you say, they use it to enrich their lives with perspective and will bounce insights right back at you. When all is said and done, you both walk away wiser for having known each other. That's how it's supposed to work. Not "what can you do for me?", but "what can WE do for US?"

Too many brothers get so caught up in the ego trip of being a "player" that they forget he needs a team. And that begins with a good screening process. Champions don't get to where they are without being fussy about who they roll with.

It's all about how you screen.

For me it's far too tedious to look for red flags. There is simply far too much wrong with people nowadays. It's easier to eliminate duds by what I call POSITIVE SCREENING. If a woman (or anyone for that matter) displays the following traits, she is qualified and granted access to the world I have created:

> Accountable
> Intelligent (that one right there eliminates more than half)
> Thoughtful (loves to make people happy)
> Respectful (but still irreverent, I hate when people try to be too proper)
> Confident (without needing to distract with cheap, revealing clothes)
> Generous (but never a doormat)
> Funny (or at least appreciates my f*cked up humor)
> Passionate (about something besides sex and celebrities)

I like to reward this type of behavior whenever possible. Does this mean I won't f*ck the sh*t out of a girl who fails the screening? HELL NAH! I will definitely hit it. The difference is, unlike most guys who will catch feelings for the tramp, I will use her - make her fall in love with me and then break her heart. It's the only way these little girls learn, by actually losing something they want. Logic never works.

I think if enough men take this approach, women will actually change. Right now there is no incentive because frankly, these b*tches are having their cake and eating it too. Men need to wake up from the poon-induced comas and start implementing some f*cking standards!

In other words If you really hate dysfunction in your life, STOP REWARDING IT! :cuss:
 

SoldMySoul

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One thing is for sure and it is finding someone that is low on the issue side. It seems to me that everybody has major issues these days. Back in the day it was all about finding people that you enjoyed being around. Today it is all about finding a woman with issues you can deal with.

I jumped back into dating a few weeks ago and it is one major pain! Red flags abundant and games galore is the new way. The new way sucks!!!! If two people like each other why play games?

Some issues remain hidden and manifest themselves later and others are obvious! I like the ones with 3+ kids and grand kids and a shaky past!! Even the average women have the entitlement attitude today and do not appreciate $hit!!!!
 

Nutz

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squirrels said:
Have people gotten more neurotic over recent years? Or have I just gotten more observant?
Both. Feminism has royally screwed up the dating market, but Game has given us the ability to recognize it and navigate through the chaos.
 

jophil28

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Razor Sharp said:
People are broken.

Society is broken. We have created a rift from ourselves, every day recognizing less and less that man in the mirror - each passing week more isolated and distant from each other thanks to superficial modes of communication, and an outright selfish outlook on life.

Back in the day we were connected to the land and each other, by necessity. You would grow your own food, maybe do some hunting with your crew and then tell stories around the fire. You looked everyone in your social circle in the eye and knew who they were. There was no battle of the sexes because each gender did what it was best at without worrying about terms like "equality" or "chauvinism".

Even after the industrial revolution we stuck together and relied very much on family/community. But gradually that all changed. We were handed everything instead of working for it, and as a result each generation has become progressively more spoiled and ungrateful to their parents/roots. That's the ironic thing about getting what you want all the time. No matter what you get you are never happy, and end up resenting the very people who give it to you. Compounding the situation you continue to demand more to fill the void within - that empty space created by the lack of character which comes from easy living, and placing a ridiculous amount of importance on stupid bullsh*t that doesn't matter.

Ultimately, we have been divided and conquered by our own desires. We like to blame "The Man", Illuminati, Rothschilds, Bush, Obama - but we did this to ourselves. Nobody put a gun to our head and told us to hole up in our houses watching endless hours of "programming". No one forced us to forget our roots and families. Nobody twisted our arms to buy tons of sh*t we don't need. And therein lies the crux of dysfunction:

A total failure to be accountable for what you do.

When you really look at it, the most f*cked up people out there walk around with the assumption that they are victims, never seeing how they victimize themselves and others. It's a complete disconnect from reality - these folks really believe the entire universe is out to get them (or owes them some cosmic favor) and they are some sort of messiah with a cross to bear. It's f*cking insane!

This is why, for me, the number one red flag of anyone I meet is the inability to admit wrong, say I'm sorry, or just be open to a different point of view that challenges the loop of circular thinking that most folks carry around in their heads. The biggest symptom of this is people who simply do not listen. Oh sure, they hear you out of social courtesy, but there is no dialogue. They are just waiting for you to finish talking so they can pick up right where they left off with their tired monologues. There is no thirst for something new, that child-like curiosity which once made their eyes shine with energy and charisma has long been dead and buried by habit, ritual and spiritual self-denial.

A functional person is one who completes their function on this world - which is

TO EVOLVE.

You can only do that by embracing change instead of fearing it. Such a person not only hears what you say, they use it to enrich their lives with perspective and will bounce insights right back at you. When all is said and done, you both walk away wiser for having known each other. That's how it's supposed to work. Not "what can you do for me?", but "what can WE do for US?"

Too many brothers get so caught up in the ego trip of being a "player" that they forget he needs a team. And that begins with a good screening process. Champions don't get to where they are without being fussy about who they roll with.

It's all about how you screen.

For me it's far too tedious to look for red flags. There is simply far too much wrong with people nowadays. It's easier to eliminate duds by what I call POSITIVE SCREENING. If a woman (or anyone for that matter) displays the following traits, she is qualified and granted access to the world I have created:

> Accountable
> Intelligent (that one right there eliminates more than half)
> Thoughtful (loves to make people happy)
> Respectful (but still irreverent, I hate when people try to be too proper)
> Confident (without needing to distract with cheap, revealing clothes)
> Generous (but never a doormat)
> Funny (or at least appreciates my f*cked up humor)
> Passionate (about something besides sex and celebrities)

I like to reward this type of behavior whenever possible. Does this mean I won't f*ck the sh*t out of a girl who fails the screening? HELL NAH! I will definitely hit it. The difference is, unlike most guys who will catch feelings for the tramp, I will use her - make her fall in love with me and then break her heart. It's the only way these little girls learn, by actually losing something they want. Logic never works.

I think if enough men take this approach, women will actually change. Right now there is no incentive because frankly, these b*tches are having their cake and eating it too. Men need to wake up from the poon-induced comas and start implementing some f*cking standards!

In other words If you really hate dysfunction in your life, STOP REWARDING IT! :cuss:
THis is a great post ^^

" Men need to wake up from their poon-induced comas and start implementing some standards."

And there is the problem and the solution in one sentence.
Reps 1
 

backbreaker

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it applies with other areas of life too. not just women.

when I was running my web development business, we normally did about 20 projects at once. I figured out one day by accident, that 3 clients, were causing like 80% of my problems. My job got a lot stress free, when I started turning away money becuase i knew problems would come with the money (just like *****, you turn away guaranteed ***** becuase you don't want the headache associated with it)

The 11th law of power is avoid the unhappy and unlucky.


This is why, for me, the number one red flag of anyone I meet is the inability to admit wrong, say I'm sorry, or just be open to a different point of view that challenges the loop of circular thinking that most folks carry around in their heads. The biggest symptom of this is people who simply do not listen. Oh sure, they hear you out of social courtesy, but there is no dialogue. They are just waiting for you to finish talking so they can pick up right where they left off with their tired monologues. There is no thirst for something new, that child-like curiosity which once made their eyes shine with energy and charisma has long been dead and buried by habit, ritual and spiritual self-denial.
Being honest, there are times, when you really do get ****ed over. What I have learned through experiences however is not to not get ****ed over, becuase.. you will be treated not great from time to time but how you react to that, and this is about the only thing I learned worth a **** from AA lol. Look at what part you played in the situation, and dismiss the other person, becuase you did play a part, regardless of how small. You can't diagnose someone else.

That guy who is acting unprofessional I spoke about in the AE thread.. I bent over backwards for him. But you know what, I chose to deal with him out of greed. That's my fault. I knew better and I got burned for it.

More times than not with women.. you see the flags. We just chose to ignore them, then throw up our little mr. innocent signs when she is what we knew she was all along.

Being honest with yourself goes a long way.
 

IronStar

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You only have to pick up a newspaper or walk down the street to know just messed up our society is. Society is the wrong word, its a cult of the individual.

Razor Sharp said:
If a woman (or anyone for that matter) displays the following traits, she is qualified and granted access to the world I have created:

> Accountable
> Intelligent (that one right there eliminates more than half)
> Thoughtful (loves to make people happy)
> Respectful (but still irreverent, I hate when people try to be too proper)
> Confident (without needing to distract with cheap, revealing clothes)
> Generous (but never a doormat)
> Funny (or at least appreciates my f*cked up humor)
> Passionate (about something besides sex and celebrities)
I tell you what, I'd dance a jig if I met a woman like the one above. I date for sex, or at least the expectation of sex, and if I held my standards anywhere near that high, I might as well become a monk. I've been back on the market for a couple of years now, and women are just generally messed up, its a matter of degree in my experience, and a big part of it is unrealistic expectations, they've dated around chasing some 'ideal' they won't find.

Sad really. I enjoy dating to be honest, but I'm 100% ok with walking at a moments notice as well.
 

backbreaker

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There are women we ****, women we like to keep ****ing, and women we would consider settling down with. Ovbiously, there is a certain threshold of things you will put up with given whatever circumstances we are in. My fiancee is not the funniest person on earth but hits pretty much every other mark on that list.

A woman I am just ****ing constantly, with no expecations of settling with her, I really don't care if she's passionate. The only thing she needs to be passionate about is my ****. I'd like for her to be intelligent but it's not a deal breaker lol. I don't give a damn if she's accoutnable or not.


I do however, need her to be confident and respectful. A woman who i am ****ing constantly, needs to respect my time and respect that I have a life outside of her, otherwise, she's more trouble than she's worth. She also needs to be

A woman who I **** one time, needs to basically be half ass hot and not a physco. I don't want to have sex with crazy stalker person.
 

Razor Sharp

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I tell you what, I'd dance a jig if I met a woman like the one above. I date for sex, or at least the expectation of sex, and if I held my standards anywhere near that high, I might as well become a monk.
I know exactly how you feel bro.

It is rare to find such birds in the wild. Rarer than diamonds. But they are out there. And no, not every woman in my life meets ALL the criteria. In fact I'm seeing two right now who fill various gaps. One is wickedly intelligent/passionate with an ass that won't quit - the other is thoughtful/hilarious and her perfect tits jiggle when she laughs. I figure until I meet Ms Right (if she even exists), I may as well enjoy the best of as many worlds as I can.

Like I said, some chicks don't meet ANY of those standards. They don't get the Razor VIP pass, but I will give em a sloppy once-over in my car or at their house. As a rule of thumb I almost never bring these hoes to where I live. (Especially since I already have 2 women who stay there sometimes)

I've been back on the market for a couple of years now, and women are just generally messed up, its a matter of degree in my experience, and a big part of it is unrealistic expectations, they've dated around chasing some 'ideal' they won't find.
The key to unraveling someone with unrealistic expectations is to pique their interest, while planting seeds of uncertainty. If you've never watched the Tao of Steve, it's a great film whose motto I try to exemplify

"Be awesome and then be gone"

The best way I can explain it is like this: Remember when you were a kid and your best friends would stay over? You'd laugh, bug out and have a ball for hours, and the next day when they left you got this sinking feeling in your stomach because you didn't want it to end? THAT's the feeling you want to elicit. If she's not missing you seconds after you are gone, you're doing it wrong.

Getting a woman to miss you is an art form that requires quick wits, good vibes and an air of mystery. Before I was any good with women I always was a natural at getting rapport (and becoming their "brother" :rolleyes: ). Nowadays I use that skill to get in their heads, to feel comfortable with me... but not TOO comfortable. I do this by sending conflicting messages (hot/cold - push/pull) They know I am sexually attracted because I do make that obvious, but they are unsure if they have passed my screening, and this builds tension. That's an important part of game that a lot of guys forget by playing it too smooth. If there is no tension, there is no intrigue - and without that you got nothing.

In order to transcend her expectations, that seed of doubt needs to bloom. Instead of playing it safe and trying to impress her with your best behavior, build the tension/intrigue until she forgets what she's looking for and starts wondering if she's meeting YOUR standards. This is how you flip the game.

Disclaimer: This is a LOT easier when your sexual needs are already being met. You don't even have to make a conscious effort to screen or play a little cat/mouse. It will come natural because you will actually be a chooser, instead of acting like one.
 

wait_out

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I don't know so much if it's about finding the perfect woman, as finding a girl who is not going to add stress to your life and make you question your own perceptions. I understand some people love sh!t tests, power games, etc. and that gets talked about a LOT on this site. But, going out with a girl who is happy, a pleasure to spend time with, doesn't make you question yourself, is receptive/positive towards sex -- it's a different feeling and a much better one. I think Jophil once mentioned dating should be 90% fun and 10% tactics. Makes sense doesn't it? Maybe some people are more willing to work in the game but personally I'd rather use it to decompress and enjoy myself.

If you could date dysfunctional people without consequences it wouldn't be a big deal, but I find even flirting with them can be stressful. So its a fine line, how much stress do you accept in your life for sex? What I've been thinking lately is that's the WRONG attitude -- you accept people in your life who make you happy and functional. The sex comes second as a side benefit of a successful adult relationship. That's not time dependent either, it applies as much to a ONS as a LTR.

@ Squirrels: adults reduce the number of dysfunctional behaviours they engage in, to improve their lives and that of others around them. I wouldn't say dysfunction is binary, it's a spectrum, so reducing bad behaviour --> you shift in the right direction. At least that's how my own philosophy is evolving these days.

@ RS: good disclaimer, that's true. I think if my life was a little more settled I wouldn't have to be so deliberate about all this. Too much running around the world tho unfortunately and it gives me bad instincts, and makes me put up with sh!t I shouldn't. Apparently I seem intent on forgetting everything I know and learning everything the hard way 2-3 times.
 
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