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do you still think NLP is a scam?

eli77

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Was watching an episode of the mentalist and thought id bring it up what are your thoughts:)
 

characternote

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Back when I was still interested in finding the magic 'game' style that could bag you any girl you wanted, even if she thought you were hideous, I stumbled upon NLP and that used by people like Riker and Ross Jefferies etc.

I lead me to read little about NLP and do some research, and it did seems that NLP was largely debunked and considered a psuedoscience with There being no scientific evidence supporting the claims made by NLP advocate. Scientific reviews state that NLP is based on outdated metaphors of how the brain works that are inconsistent with current neurological theory and contain numerous factual errors

This almost makes me wanna start a thread about the style of game i've seen on other forums who seem to base it on riker. Seems to be a use of very flowery, overly descriptive language laced with NLP principles (embedded commands and pacing and such) that users claim can basically force a girl into a state where she is completely vulnerable and open to being seduced by you. A kind of magic super power where you can 'seduce' any girl you want. Of course these people have no infields. Only outrageous claims. And i'm honestly pretty sure that the people i'm thinking of are just practicing their descriptive writing skills in a group to try to sell their courses and coaching lol. Some of the cringiest FR's i've ever personally read that I think would do way more harm than good (I even tried some of the verbal patterns and stuff back in the day, much to my shame! And got the kind of reactions i'd expect from these young girl (. Namely 'WTF????; lol) - But I had to try it)




Some examples from these people to give you an idea of what i'm talking about:

Openers:

Hi, I just noticed you. You look like my ex, but I feel as if you’re the type of girl who isn’t afraid of grabbing life by the horns… like on this brisk night you’re outside having fun… soaking in the energy of a Friday night… feeling adrenalised. Like spiders exploding across the stars. You're ready for anything… ready for FUN on this enchanting Friday night… is that right?

Hi. *sits down next to girl in park*
You know… I've been thinking… Isn't this place just sooo…relaxing. Like… with all the birds chirping and the squirrels running about, and this breeze gently blowing on us… it kind of makes us be present in the moment, and the more time you spend, the more this feeling of connection to nature grows. And YOU forget about all the worries we have out there. Wouldn't you agree? Just from your overall vibe and energy… I get the sense that you're a really calm person interested in meeting people

Hi! I love this club. The DJ is there and he's playing your favourite songs, you've got your drink in your hand and everything feels possible. You feel alive. It's like that feeling when you are attracted. To me, it's similar. It's like we're all unified by divine light. And the music and energetic ambience puts you in the mindset for adventure where you can do anything you want without judegement. What's your name?

It's not just openers. It's the same stuff throughout the interaction. After you've opened it's more ''Isn't it......... amazing......... when you meet a stranger and you feel this spark. This magical connection ...........where you feel you've known each other for an eternity. Minutes .......turn to minutes. Hours to hours. Time has no meaning anymore......and you start to crave......adventure'' (you get the idea)


Now, I don't know about you guys, but that all sounds like the girls will think there is something wrong with you. It's so bad that i'm actually curious whether there are any UK posters here who can confirm that, as maybe it really is lost in translation and US girls think this is a normal way to speak and wouldn't think there was something wrong with you like I know young UK girls where i live do!

I also note that this verbal style has never caught on in the community. There appears to be tiny handful of posters apparently using this (i'm pretty sure it's 1 or 2 writers just writing these field reports. I think each guru sort of needs their own style/unique selling point in order to make money, and this awkward verbal style laced with 'nlp' is there particular brand, which nobody seems to use despite the apparent AMAZING success of the 2-3 people supposedly using it)
 
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Bigpapa

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Back when I was still interested in finding the magic 'game' style that could bag you any girl you wanted, even if she thought you were hideous, I stumbled upon NLP and that used by people like Riker and Ross Jefferies etc.

I lead me to read little about NLP and do some research, and it did seems that NLP was largely debunked and considered a psuedoscience with There being no scientific evidence supporting the claims made by NLP advocate. Scientific reviews state that NLP is based on outdated metaphors of how the brain works that are inconsistent with current neurological theory and contain numerous factual errors

This almost makes me wanna start a thread about the style of game i've seen on other forums who seem to base it on riker. Seems to be a use of very flowery, overly descriptive language laced with NLP principles (embedded commands and pacing and such) that users claim can basically force a girl into a state where she is completely vulnerable and open to being seduced by you. A kind of magic super power where you can 'seduce' any girl you want. Of course these people have no infields. Only outrageous claims. And i'm honestly pretty sure that the people i'm thinking of are just practicing their descriptive writing skills in a group to try to sell their courses and coaching lol. Some of the cringiest FR's i've ever personally read that I think would do way more harm than good (I even tried some of the verbal patterns and stuff back in the day, much to my shame! And got the kind of reactions i'd expect from these young girl (. Namely 'WTF????; lol) - But I had to try it)




Some examples from these people to give you an idea of what i'm talking about:

Openers:

Hi, I just noticed you. You look like my ex, but I feel as if you’re the type of girl who isn’t afraid of grabbing life by the horns… like on this brisk night you’re outside having fun… soaking in the energy of a Friday night… feeling adrenalised. Like spiders exploding across the stars. You're ready for anything… ready for FUN on this enchanting Friday night… is that right?

Hi. *sits down next to girl in park*
You know… I've been thinking… Isn't this place just sooo…relaxing. Like… with all the birds chirping and the squirrels running about, and this breeze gently blowing on us… it kind of makes us be present in the moment, and the more time you spend, the more this feeling of connection to nature grows. And YOU forget about all the worries we have out there. Wouldn't you agree? Just from your overall vibe and energy… I get the sense that you're a really calm person interested in meeting people

Hi! I love this club. The DJ is there and he's playing your favourite songs, you've got your drink in your hand and everything feels possible. You feel alive. It's like that feeling when you are attracted. To me, it's similar. It's like we're all unified by divine light. And the music and energetic ambience puts you in the mindset for adventure where you can do anything you want without judegement. What's your name?

It's not just openers. It's the same stuff throughout the interaction. After you've opened it's more ''Isn't it......... amazing......... when you meet a stranger and you feel this spark. This magical connection ...........where you feel you've known each other for an eternity. Minutes .......turn to minutes. Hours to hours. Time has no meaning anymore......and you start to crave......adventure'' (you get the idea)


Now, I don't know about you guys, but that all sounds like the girls will think there is something wrong with you. It's so bad that i'm actually curious whether there are any UK posters here who can confirm that, as maybe it really is lost in translation and US girls think this is a normal way to speak and wouldn't think there was something wrong with you like I know young UK girls where i live do!

I also note that this verbal style has never caught on in the community. There appears to be tiny handful of posters apparently using this (i'm pretty sure it's 1 or 2 writers just writing these field reports. I think each guru sort of needs their own style/unique selling point in order to make money, and this awkward verbal style laced with 'nlp' is there particular brand, which nobody seems to use despite the apparent AMAZING success of the 2-3 people supposedly using it)
the problem with this language is that it is very difficult to be processed by the human mind , unless the girl itself is this erudite person , that also speaks this way

if you talk with the normal girl like this , she will wonder if you are gay or not

I also used to have this pompous lanaguage when I was back in university , because I thought that this will give me an edge

the truth is that this worked , but I also realized that girls who liked me also liked the guy who could barely say a sentence from the beginning till the finish fluently

this led me to think That having or not having this poetic way of talking has no impact on the success rate

nowadays I use a more simpler way of communicating , as it is appealing for women no matter their background , and tune in to a more poetic language if I sense that she really likes this pompous way of talking
 

Atom Smasher

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NLP works to a degree because women receive virtually 99% of their social and moral cues from outside of themselves. Right and wrong is not inbuilt nor developed as internal concepts. It’s all about what’s expedient right now and what feels good at the moment. This leaves them open to hypnotic suggestion.

I learned on my own NLP can really be thought of as a subset of the art of influence. Better to study that art than the mechanical manipulation of NLP.
 

Reyaj

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I'm glad someone created this thread. NLP/Speed Seduction was one of the first things I looked into when I got introduced to "the game" many many years ago. I read Ross Jeffries's first book and read a lot of field reports that it worked using "patterns"
Also I am not sure if anyone remembers Dr. Judy from sex advice radio show? But she seemed very intelligent and in tune with sexuality/attraction and she publicly shamed Ross Jeffries for this, saying it tricks girls into hooking up.. This really made is seem like it was legit.

Does it really work from my experience? I don't know.... I think the theory behind it plausible which I think is saying certain things to elicit feelings of attraction and then directing those toward yourself discreetly. I have tried it several times and there's times where I thought it did work, but times where I wasn't sure. It may very well just be that the girls I tried it on and hooked up with were physically attracted to me versus the ones where it didn't work who weren't physically attracted to me.

I think the idea of using it on a random girl you see somewhere is probably futile given the guard women have up these days towards strangers. However if you are able to be in a situation with a girl who pays attention to your words, it could work...

I'd be game to test this out more if anyone else would like to participate?
 
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Xenom0rph

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It's a pseudo-science.... it's as much a science as "Gender Studies"....

The most important lesson in hypnosis is that you can only hypnotize someone if they're a willing participant.... but then again, if they're a willing participant, did you even really hypnotize them?

I first started researching NLP and hypnosis in the late 90s. Even back then, when I was just a naive kid, I already had skepticism about it, but I was still open-minded enough to do some research.

Before I recap my experiences I'll give a spoiler alert: NLP is a waste of time.

The basic premise is that the practitioner needs to establish rapport with the target. Once rapport has been achieved, that's when the practitioner would start slipping in subtle suggestions in an attempt to influence the target subject's behavior...

But keep in mind, rapport is not something that can be forced onto the subject, it's something that they either willingly accept or reject, and 99% of the time, people will instinctively resist rapport with someone they deem "alien"....

There are strategies and techniques that can be employed to try to seem "less alien" to the target, but at best, these always come off as cheap parlor tricks that the target will easily identify and thus they will be even more resistant.

Again, it goes back to the first lesson of hypnosis: you can only hypnotize someone if they're a willing participant.....

If you can't establish step 1 (rapport, and 99% of the time you won't) there is literally nothing you can say or do to influence the target's behavior.

This is why sales jobs always hire attractive men and women, because if someone is attractive it increases the probability that the target will establish rapport with them and the sales people have a better chance of making a sale...

The blackpill strikes again: Looks matter, even in a ridiculous pseudo science like NLP...
 

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Also, one of the biggest misconceptions about NLP is that you can use canned (rehearsed) lines to establish rapport. I can confidently say that this simply isn't going to work in the real world.

People naturally interpret everything they hear through the filter of their own personal biases.

For example: A guy can say something as harmless as "Good morning" to a feminist, and she'll interpret it as a form of sexual harassment because she naturally interprets all men as misogynistic...

Whereas a guy can say "Good morning" to a female senior citizen and she'll probably think "What nice, polite young man."

As you can see, when establishing rapport is the goal, the practitioner must take into consideration the inherent biases in the target.

This is why canned (rehearsed) pick up lines DO NOT work, because it implies that all persons will react in a predictable manner to certain lines.

Instead, the strategy that would work best for establishing rapport is quite the opposite: say as little as possible. Because the less you say, the less your words can be misinterpreted.

When attempting to establish rapport, keep the meeting as brief as possible, say only the minimum that's required, and ALWAYS appear agreeable, polite and DON'T be pushy (don't be a pushy used car salesman)...

Multiple, short and pleasant conversations are a much better way to establish rapport than a long, boring and tiresome conversation where the practitioner is desperately trying to force rapport on the subject.
 
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Well, even psychology has some fundamental philosophical flaws due to being so dependent on human interpretation rather than being a strictly physical phenomenon. I wouldn't call it a scam, I see what it's getting at, but I also see how it's so hard to make sense of. It's just a mental framework that might prove useful.
 

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Seems to be a use of very flowery, overly descriptive language laced with NLP principles (embedded commands and pacing and such) that users claim can basically force a girl into a state where she is completely vulnerable and open to being seduced by you. A kind of magic super power where you can 'seduce' any girl you want. Of course these people have no infields. Only outrageous claims. And i'm honestly pretty sure that the people i'm thinking of are just practicing their descriptive writing skills in a group to try to sell their courses and coaching lol. Some of the cringiest FR's i've ever personally read that I think would do way more harm than good
I also note that this verbal style has never caught on in the community. There appears to be tiny handful of posters apparently using this (i'm pretty sure it's 1 or 2 writers just writing these field reports. I think each guru sort of needs their own style/unique selling point in order to make money, and this awkward verbal style laced with 'nlp' is there particular brand, which nobody seems to use despite the apparent AMAZING success of the 2-3 people supposedly using it)

The 3 (GirlsChase employed) writers are two good looking guys in their 20s (Bacchus and Teevster). And one 40 year old who hasn't had a cold approach lay in at least 2 years (Gunwitch).

There is only one other guy on the above forum whose had success (success being gotten laid. Not "increased his hook rate") with this sort of thing out of the countless others who have also tried it. Of course he is also good looking.

How these guys get away with this sort of thing is
1) Authority frame (GirlsChase writers. So anything they have to say MUST be legit).
2) Make it so you can create attraction be renaming it. And therefore feel you have control over it.

Teevster renamed it Compliance
Gunwitch/Bacchus named it Social frame
Chase Amante calls it Excitement

(What is listed as "game moves" are things she will let you do if she is attracted. Means you can not use these to "build" attraction).

Renaming it, means you too can get their same results without the prerequisite main factor (because you can build compliance (you can only do compliance tests with the "game moves" listed above, to make sure she is attracted). And you are in control of social frame (there are common sense things you can say about yourself (age, job, living situation, nationality etc) that can hurt or help her attraction she has for you).

3) Ignoring the Sexual availability factor.

Again the claim is, if she isn't sexually available, it doesn't matter you can still get her by setting Anti-ASD frames. When users claim to HAVE set Anti ASD frames but the girl still wouldn't budge, they are ignored. Or met with more irrelevant seemingly legit mental masterbation that would not have changed the outcome.
 

Reyaj

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As you can see, when establishing rapport is the goal, the practitioner must take into consideration the inherent biases in the target.
I agree it's probably useless on cold approaching... but what if you do have rapport with the target? For example what if you work with an attractive female and interact a lot... You never made a move on her but she converses with you and may even consider you a friend. You don't think it still could work?
 

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I'm considering typing up a detailed (but straight to the point, all thriller no filler) synopsis on how to establish rapport - the most difficult aspect of NLP.

Even though NLP is indeed a pseudo-science, there's still some useful aspects of it. Just like how astrology is total bullsh/t, it doesn't hurt to know a little bit of astrology (even if its only usefulness is nothing more than just a topic of friendly conversation)....
 

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I'm considering typing up a detailed (but straight to the point, all thriller no filler) synopsis on how to establish rapport - the most difficult aspect of NLP.

Even though NLP is indeed a pseudo-science, there's still some useful aspects of it. Just like how astrology is total bullsh/t, it doesn't hurt to know a little bit of astrology (even if its only usefulness is nothing more than just a topic of friendly conversation)....
I asked you a ****ing question
 

Reyaj

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Calm down, tough guy... If i feel like answering your question, i might... If not, i'll probably just go on my merry way....
No worries you incel
 

eli77

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checkout some youtube channels for clarity seems to work for sure.
 

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Xenom0rph

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I'm contemplating whether I should do a synopsis on hypnotism and NLP... I studied extensively and applied these two disciplines in real world settings starting in the late 90s to around 2004 with varying degrees of success.

I fear that by releasing this intel that I'll just be giving men more false hope... as stated above the first rule of hypnotism is that you can only hypnotize someone if they're a willing participant.

It's the same in NLP, you can only implant suggestions if rapport is established, and establishing rapport has a 99% fail rate.

At best, and after years of practice, a practitioner can really only expect a 95% fail rate....

NLP is essentially just 3 steps:

1) Establishing rapport
2) Anchoring positive vibes and trust to the practitioner
3) Implanting suggestions

If step 1 can't be established, then it doesn't work...

Take a look at this picture.... I can tell you right now that establishing rapport has almost nothing to do with words....

Guys are clinging to cope that if they just master some magical phrases that they can make a woman fall head-over-heels-in-love with them.... this is every bit as retarded as saying "hocus pocus" and hoping that it'll cast a magical spell...

Foolishness, utter foolishness...


Cope.jpg
 
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Bigpapa

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The 3 (GirlsChase employed) writers are two good looking guys in their 20s (Bacchus and Teevster). And one 40 year old who hasn't had a cold approach lay in at least 2 years (Gunwitch).

There is only one other guy on the above forum whose had success (success being gotten laid. Not "increased his hook rate") with this sort of thing out of the countless others who have also tried it. Of course he is also good looking.

How these guys get away with this sort of thing is
1) Authority frame (GirlsChase writers. So anything they have to say MUST be legit).
2) Make it so you can create attraction be renaming it. And therefore feel you have control over it.

Teevster renamed it Compliance
Gunwitch/Bacchus named it Social frame
Chase Amante calls it Excitement

(What is listed as "game moves" are things she will let you do if she is attracted. Means you can not use these to "build" attraction).

Renaming it, means you too can get their same results without the prerequisite main factor (because you can build compliance (you can only do compliance tests with the "game moves" listed above, to make sure she is attracted). And you are in control of social frame (there are common sense things you can say about yourself (age, job, living situation, nationality etc) that can hurt or help her attraction she has for you).

3) Ignoring the Sexual availability factor.

Again the claim is, if she isn't sexually available, it doesn't matter you can still get her by setting Anti-ASD frames. When users claim to HAVE set Anti ASD frames but the girl still wouldn't budge, they are ignored. Or met with more irrelevant seemingly legit mental masterbation that would not have changed the outcome.
I do not mind that people claim that one thing or the other works , and that you should try it

what I mind is that people say that things only because of THIS thing , or another THING .

the truth is that for whatever “trickery” that they sell , it is always the same prerequisite , she needs to be opened to you from the get go

if she is not opened , you can not change that , as either you will be kicked from wherever you are by the bouncers , either she will get irritated , or her bf will want to fight you , or whatever other thing that can happen

now , that you reach that point where is is willing to listen to your bullsh1t , you have an Arsenal of methods, that more or less have the same success rate

but this methods should be picked based on your own style , as you have to be congruent when you use them

you can not try the poetic way of talking , when you are not a book worm , or liking using a pompous way of talking . Otherwise you will not look congruent without a lot of effort . And also gonna look like a try hard , which will diminish your success rate in the vast majority of t

now you can train yourself to loook congruent, but this would take a big chunk of your time , or you can try a more “from the hood “ type of method

at the end of the day it does not matter the method , as you will have more or less the same success rate . What matters is to be congruent when executing it

I think that a true and good coach should focus on working with the client material , rather than trying to sell his style or his method

I am also a good looking guy myself , but I can not really give advices to other guys who were not blessed with genes as good as mine , because my way for sure will not work on them

maximum that I can do is just say my opinion about different things , and maybe whoever reads it will take what I say , mix it with what he has and then output something that might work in his particular case

anything else more then this would be loudscris
 

Bigpapa

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The 3 (GirlsChase employed) writers are two good looking guys in their 20s (Bacchus and Teevster). And one 40 year old who hasn't had a cold approach lay in at least 2 years (Gunwitch).

There is only one other guy on the above forum whose had success (success being gotten laid. Not "increased his hook rate") with this sort of thing out of the countless others who have also tried it. Of course he is also good looking.

How these guys get away with this sort of thing is
1) Authority frame (GirlsChase writers. So anything they have to say MUST be legit).
2) Make it so you can create attraction be renaming it. And therefore feel you have control over it.

Teevster renamed it Compliance
Gunwitch/Bacchus named it Social frame
Chase Amante calls it Excitement

(What is listed as "game moves" are things she will let you do if she is attracted. Means you can not use these to "build" attraction).

Renaming it, means you too can get their same results without the prerequisite main factor (because you can build compliance (you can only do compliance tests with the "game moves" listed above, to make sure she is attracted). And you are in control of social frame (there are common sense things you can say about yourself (age, job, living situation, nationality etc) that can hurt or help her attraction she has for you).

3) Ignoring the Sexual availability factor.

Again the claim is, if she isn't sexually available, it doesn't matter you can still get her by setting Anti-ASD frames. When users claim to HAVE set Anti ASD frames but the girl still wouldn't budge, they are ignored. Or met with more irrelevant seemingly legit mental masterbation that would not have changed the outcome.
on another note , in the article you shared , fascination is basically about dealing with green girls ( who like a lot from the get go , and very difficult to to mess things up , if you have at least average game skills )

excitement is basically dealing with orange girls ( they find you attractive , but they are not sure if you are their type or not )

Here the most important thing is to build similarity between you and her .

I remember that the moment when I realized this was when I was talking with a girl from a very rough part of the city . No method was really working , till the moment I got pissed and told her something like “ listen b1tch , I will slap your face with my d1ck” .

Then things changed massively , as I started using a very ghetto and Neanderthalian approach , then like 2 hours later we slept togheter . I asked her like what made her change her mind , and she told me something like “ you know , I found you cute and witty from the get go , but you also had this unmanly vibe about you , which I did not like “

this was the moment that I realized that it is not about the method , it is about being really good at calibrating and building similarity

the most important thing in game is your fundamentals . Then the ability to calibrate and build similarity with a vast majority of types . Only after this 2 , you can think about the methods . The method Itself has almost no value if the other 2 things are not on point

Actually the best practice I would say is to use multiple methods at the same time , that are similar between them and congruent to you
 
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Coast

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Yes, Xenom0rph, a synopsis of NLP & Hypnosis would be a great follow-up. Especially from your perspective & experience. It’s a needed post.

One of the problems with NLP is there are not enough critics. Nobody wants to admit they paid money to learn about it and then discovered the results in actual practice were poor.
 

eli77

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I'm glad someone created this thread. NLP/Speed Seduction was one of the first things I looked into when I got introduced to "the game" many many years ago. I read Ross Jeffries's first book and read a lot of field reports that it worked using "patterns"
Also I am not sure if anyone remembers Dr. Judy from sex advice radio show? But she seemed very intelligent and in tune with sexuality/attraction and she publicly shamed Ross Jeffries for this, saying it tricks girls into hooking up.. This really made is seem like it was legit.

Does it really work from my experience? I don't know.... I think the theory behind it plausible which I think is saying certain things to elicit feelings of attraction and then directing those toward yourself discreetly. I have tried it several times and there's times where I thought it did work, but times where I wasn't sure. It may very well just be that the girls I tried it on and hooked up with were physically attracted to me versus the ones where it didn't work who weren't physically attracted to me.

I think the idea of using it on a random girl you see somewhere is probably futile given the guard women have up these days towards strangers. However if you are able to be in a situation with a girl who pays attention to your words, it could work...

I'd be game to test this out more if anyone else would like to participate?
dm me
 
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