Do women have all the power?

[penkitten]

the only people that have any power over you are the people you allow to have power/control over you.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

women have the power to decide, who they lay and who they date. .

And men don't??? If this is true I'd hate to see some of the women guys are bedding because they have no choice! :nervous:

 

[iqqi]

The original post was GREAT. This should be in the tips or somewhere where all men will read it. It is TRUE.

Women want excitement, love, and they want a real man to give it to them. Eheh. Heh. "Give it to them." If you know what I mean.

 

[SharinganUser]

Becoming a pseudo-chauvinist does not beat women in the struggle for power. Although the forums do propose a few methods that render a person a "better chaser"; I wouldn't even begin to overestimate its value beyond that point.

One thing we all must be honest about, before pretending to be Don Juans; is that, until women begin approaching us--perhaps in light of a particular reputation or simple looks, or intellect--we're the ones still chasing them down, not the other way around. The power is still in their hands because of said fact. The day women are forced to approach men is the day that men truly gain the power.

I have to disagree with you on one part. I pick who I want to chase. That gives me the power. No matter how much a woman wants me to approach her, if I don't like her then I won't do it. Women don't get to decide who approaches them.

 

[marinetti]

this is a really good old post. whoever dug this one up found a real gem.

that said, i believe that in the courting world, as it has been in virtually every known civilization (are there any exceptions? I seriously don't know) it is the man's job to do the pursuing, the initiation of conversation, pushing it to a romantic level, and working the logistics to getting a woman to go home with him. SharinganUser is absolutely right on this point. That gives men half of the power right there.

it is the woman's job to, at any point, decline these escalations. If a man talks to her and she doesn't want to talk to him, she turns him away. If he's talking on a personal level and escalates it to a sexual level, it is her job to reject this if she does not like it. That gives her half of the power.

At any point, either of these two can walk away from the interaction. So they both have power in it. Likewise, women are constantly battling with men who do not have the balls to properly escalate. Once you prove you don't have the balls, they want nothing to do with you because you're not pulling your weight.

I think these kinds of forums real goals are to teach men how to grow the balls to pull their weight in courtship. This is why I do not believe it is chauvinistic to work a room. You're presenting yourself to all the women in the room, and some will reject you, sure. That's their job as women, but don't take it personally. In fact, by not taking it personally, you show you understand the rules of courtship and that's so unique and attractive that the women who shot you down may very well come back and reintroduce themselves later.

a woman may not be saying "no" when she rejects your advance. She may also be saying "not yet" and that applies to approach, escalation to sexy talk, or whatever.

this is a long post, but i'd love comments.

 

[iqqi]

this is a really good old post. whoever dug this one up found a real gem.

that said, i believe that in the courting world, as it has been in virtually every known civilization (are there any exceptions? I seriously don't know) it is the man's job to do the pursuing, the initiation of conversation, pushing it to a romantic level, and working the logistics to getting a woman to go home with him. SharinganUser is absolutely right on this point. That gives men half of the power right there.

it is the woman's job to, at any point, decline these escalations. If a man talks to her and she doesn't want to talk to him, she turns him away. If he's talking on a personal level and escalates it to a sexual level, it is her job to reject this if she does not like it. That gives her half of the power.

At any point, either of these two can walk away from the interaction. So they both have power in it. Likewise, women are constantly battling with men who do not have the balls to properly escalate. Once you prove you don't have the balls, they want nothing to do with you because you're not pulling your weight.

I think these kinds of forums real goals are to teach men how to grow the balls to pull their weight in courtship. This is why I do not believe it is chauvinistic to work a room. You're presenting yourself to all the women in the room, and some will reject you, sure. That's their job as women, but don't take it personally. In fact, by not taking it personally, you show you understand the rules of courtship and that's so unique and attractive that the women who shot you down may very well come back and reintroduce themselves later.

a woman may not be saying "no" when she rejects your advance. She may also be saying "not yet" and that applies to approach, escalation to sexy talk, or whatever.

this is a long post, but i'd love comments.

excellent.

Alot of men are afraid to pursue, this will screw them forever. They get all b!tter and hateful because they are rejected alot of the time, they don't understand:

it is the man's job to do the pursuing

and that

it is the woman's job to, at any point, decline these escalations.

And they really don't get this part:

In fact, by not taking it personally, you show you understand the rules of courtship and that's so unique and attractive that the women who shot you down may very well come back and reintroduce themselves later.

a woman may not be saying "no" when she rejects your advance. She may also be saying "not yet" and that applies to approach, escalation to sexy talk, or whatever.

What a man! I would give you some rep points, but I can't give anymore for a 24 hour period. The outrage!!


Romance/sexuality is a gray gray area, and anyone who needs it to be black and white are going to be at a disadvantage.

 

[ketostix]

This is the most bs thread. Women can and do approach if they want to. What no one mentioned is, if you think about this logically, the only way you can have power as a man is to only want sex from a woman. Which is true, if a woman won't have sex with you without you chasing and "courting" her, then you really have no power and won't get sex or a relationship from her. Of course women have the power. What a stupid argument. The OP is a pick up marketing guy.

 

[DonJuan11]

"Imagine what it would be like to be a beautiful woman. Really, what is it like to be a hot woman? You get perks. You don't have to put air in your tires. You get offered free drinks. All that stuff. But you get objectified. And being objectified SUCKS! There is no power in that. Sure, you could walk into any bar and take a man home in 5 minutes, but you don't know him, and you would just be an object, so the sex would suck. There is no power in that."

If a woman decides when to have sex, how often to have sex and how to have sex then its cut and dry who has the power. Short of attacking her to have sex, the guy has no power.

Your girlfriend wants to have her cake and eat it too. She gets to decide when to have sex, but still wants all the excitement through a 6'0 brad pitt lookalike.

I would love to go to the coach of New England and say "Can I be your quarterback for $16,000,000?"

But guess what? I don't have the power

 

[DonJuan11]

My previous girlfriends and other girls have always asked me why I never initiate touching or sexual contact of any sort.

I always tell them the guy can be ready to have sex in 8 seconds, its THE GIRL that has to initiate it. SHE has to be in mood and READY because without an opening in the net, you are not scoring a goal.

Look at Porn. Who has the power? Who drives the industry? Who gets paid $10,000 a scene while the other person gets $500?

Done and done.

 

[marinetti]

DonJuan11, although you can't go get a $16M deal just by asking, you have the power to practice, get good, and work towards getting exposure in the game.

luckily, picking up women isn't such a lofty ambition. it's not as hard to get a woman interested in sex as it is to get a sports deal.

and sure, you get them to initiate sexual intimacy. that's cool, I do it too, by teasing and flirting to the point that she's very interested in me. but at the same time, I need to do the flirting. Unless you're claiming that you just sit there, doing nothing, and they just come up and start making out with you. Are you one of those incredible naturals? Even if you are, you're still showing interest, even if it's unconsciously. Unconscious competence is, in my mind, the biggest goal I have from these forums.

And come on, porn? That's the ultimate objectification of women. I'm not out to objectify. I'm out to meet, connect, and seduce.

 

[DonJuan11]

DonJuan11, although you can't go get a $16M deal just by asking, you have the power to practice, get good, and work towards getting exposure in the game.

My point is I can be the best I can be, strong, funny, rich, look like Brad, exciting, but in the end its the girl that makes the decision to have sex. I've had a girl on my couch ready to have sex with me for the first time but she changed her mind because I did not have a six pack. Wish I had the power in that situation

luckily, picking up women isn't such a lofty ambition. it's not as hard to get a woman interested in sex as it is to get a sports deal.

Apples and oranges but to sleep with a beautiful woman is very very hard


and sure, you get them to initiate sexual intimacy. that's cool, I do it too, by teasing and flirting to the point that she's very interested in me. but at the same time, I need to do the flirting. Unless you're claiming that you just sit there, doing nothing, and they just come up and start making out with you. Are you one of those incredible naturals? Even if you are, you're still showing interest, even if it's unconsciously. Unconscious competence is, in my mind, the biggest goal I have from these forums.

Point again is there is not point to initiate anything. I'm not a natural at all, but I never try to hold her hand or go for the first kiss or anything. What's the point? For her to bruise the ego? For her to insult me? Yes I know nothing venturing nothing gained, but once you've been rejected for sex 10 times, you don't really care to initiate the 11th time

And come on, porn? That's the ultimate objectification of women. I'm not out to objectify. I'm out to meet, connect, and seduce.

You are right, I'm just saying David Spade must look like Brad or else he would not be saying that beautiful women hate having all the power. They love it and the use it to their full advantage.

"I never realized how boring this game really was." - Homer at a baseball game, day 17 without alcohol

 

[marinetti]

it sounds to me like you're feeling bitter because you can't meet women's high standards. my viewpoint is that the ideal man is not a standard i can live up to, and so i reject even trying. instead, i do my best to project a very friendly, positive vibe, work on connecting with women, and portraying my own personality in the process. the end result is women are comfortable being themselves around me, which is inherently extremely attractive. then when i let them know i'm sexually interested, they almost always respond positively.

a lot of this comes from Juggler's method. Read his chapter in The Game, p115 to see his point of view on how he gets a woman he meets in a museum to open up to him.

 

[DonJuan11]

the end result is women are comfortable being themselves around me, which is inherently extremely attractive. then when i let them know i'm sexually interested, they almost always respond positively.

I agree with you.

My point is they can still say no to any physical contact even if they respond positively, hence they have the power.

I'm just trying to make a philosophical point. They have a product we want and we have to come up with the "goods" to "purchase" the product. Therefore we don't have the power.

All I want David to admit is "We don't have the power". All the other discussion about how we look, how we act, what we do, is fluff.

 

[Chaotixxx]

I agree with you.

My point is they can still say no to any physical contact even if they respond positively, hence they have the power.

I'm just trying to make a philosophical point. They have a product we want and we have to come up with the "goods" to "purchase" the product. Therefore we don't have the power.

All I want David to admit is "We don't have the power". All the other discussion about how we look, how we act, what we do, is fluff.

Youre saying it as if women dont want sex at all. They want intimacy with men just as much as men want it with women so they dont have all the power. Its fairly even. (Unless youre an ugly woman or an AFC)

 

[marinetti]

okay then, that's the difference in our philosophy. I believe that I have the power to seduce women. I believe that my seductive charms are such that an interested woman will not turn my advances down. I believe that it's my job to figure out the logistics to get her to my place for the night. I also believe that when these things come together, my success rate is 100%. Any failures result from me missing out in one of these steps.

If I believed women had the power, then they would have power over me. I would be approval seeking. And I'm not saying that about you, DonJuan, or anyone else. But personally, for me, thinking they have power is bad framing of the situation. I look at hooking up as a win-win situation, there's no 'stuggle' so to speak of here. We get to know each other, we have a fun time together, and there are no regrets on either side.

Chaotixxx, your thinking seems pretty right on. An AFC lacks the strength to lead in a seduction. An ugly woman (or a badly kempt woman) lacks the attractiveness to get us seducing them in the first place.

As an aside, I'll bet ugly women think men have all the power in a seduction.