"The Coffee Shop Girl You Never Spoke To"

You've replayed it a hundred times. She stood three feet away, scrolling her phone. You had an opening. You composed the perfect line — after she was gone.

For all you know, she's married now. To some guy who said something. Anything.

Openers are cheap. Almost any sentence works when it's delivered within three seconds. The expensive part is the standing there, drafting and deleting, while the window quietly closes.

The "22 Rules" stripped out my hesitation. What to open with, how to keep it alive, and the one habit that costs guys more women than anything else: waiting for perfect.

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Did You Ever Say The 'L' Word First and Have it Work?

Did You Ever Say The 'L' Word First and Have it Work?

  • Yes, and she said "I love you too".

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • Yes, she confessed her feelings shortly after.

    Votes: 4 30.8%
  • No, things went south after that.

    Votes: 6 46.2%
  • No, things had already gone south.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    13

bigneil

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While a man should never be the first to ask for a commitment IMO, I'm not 100% convinced he shouldn't be the first to say the "L" word so I wanted to get a consensus of actual experience with what happened after members said it first. I know the general rule is not to say it, and certainly not within the first 3 months, but this poll is about actual experience with times you said it first.

I've found that sometimes one person will just say it by mistake, or in a matter-of-fact way in a sentence, such as "You know I love you", or "It was too late for me because I already loved you by then". Sometimes people respond later after it sinks in.

You should obviously never say it when she is dumping you. And the words "I love you" do not form a complete sentence.

As it's happened more than once for most of us, this might have been a multiple-choice poll, but since it's not, please choose the one that happened most often and/or with the girl(s) who meant the most to you.
 

"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

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Renegade357

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It can work but it's risky. I don't recommend it. There's no real win to be had from saying it. I mean you have to time it right. You have to be totally convinced that she loves you back if you're going to say it. If you're not 100% sure then don't say it. Why risk freaking her out? Once you freak her out it's over dude.

It's really only worked once for me and I was half asleep and thought she was sleeping too. For whatever reason I was just super happy/content with her and thought I felt that way. So I just blurted it out and thought she didn't hear. A few days later she asked me if I said it and I confessed. She said she loved me too. I spent the next 6 years with her. Obviously it didn't work in the end for different reasons else I wouldn't be here :)
 

Sneevox

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Things went south because I suddenly became bored with the relationship. She got really clingy because she thought she loved me.

heheh.
 

The Gambler

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She was the one who wanted to suck face at the end of our first date... And that we did.

But it was I who brought up the "L" word some time later. She said it back, eventually, and we have been married for over four years now.

Of course, I was in my mid-thirties when I met her, so our situation might be different than yours (we were both tired of being single and both of us had plenty of trials and tribulations with the opposite sex).

If you are nineteen years old, be very cautious about using that word... Both you and the person you're seeing are going to continue changing throughout your twenties and beyond. Just a word of advice.

The Gambler
 

"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

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Deep Dish

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bigneil:
The words “I love you” do not form a complete sentence.
Just for my own curiosity, I looked up grammatical rules and it is, in fact, a complete sentence. It’s an independent clause, which is complete.

I’m opting out of your poll because I don’t have experience of being the first one to say it, but there are strong reasons that you should, out of principle, always wait. Even if the girl replies with “I love you, too” and you enjoy a four year relationship, it doesn’t invalidate the principle as what would have been the wisest course of action.
 

bigneil

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Deep Dish said:
Just for my own curiosity, I looked up grammatical rules and it is, in fact, a complete sentence. It’s an independent clause, which is complete.
Correct, but I stated that to imply it's too cliche to be effective.

The wisest course of action leads to her confessing her feelings, expressing high attraction, and offering sex. Relationships that last more than 2 years are a complete success, so if it resulted in a 4 year relationship you can't assume it would have been better otherwise.

Still tied at 9-9 for the combined Yes and No, so it seems to be a good question. Actually, seeing that Deep Dish is waxing scientific, I'll note that with 18 votes, 9-9 implies the best possible question and 18-0 would imply the stupidest question. Too bad he never tried and thus couldn't vote. Again, sometimes the 'L' word just comes out in a sentence and you simply observe what is called empirical evidence.

However, I started a new poll in Deep Dish's honor.
 

bluenorther

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I said it to my recentest sweetheart and nothing bad came of it. I was struggling to spell her last name right, and when I finally got it, in an email, I wrote "I love you Kerry R___!" She wrote back, "Ahh!"
She'd been a client of mine for a year already, so it's not like we were just starting out.
She dumped me after a few months. She liked how I was shoeing her horse, though, so she wanted me to keep doing that. It got too wierd for me, so I cut her off a while later.
 

The Gambler

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muscleman said:
Just don't do it. Commandment #1: http://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixteen-commandments-of-poon/

Yes I've done it, no you don't stand to gain anything from it.
Muscleman, you're one of my favorite posters here... But I wouldn't advise the typical guy to try and stick to all 16 of the commandments.... Good lord, I don't think I'm smart enough to remember half of them... :whistle:
 

"Nervous Around Beautiful Women? There's a Rule for That"

I could talk to any woman I wasn't attracted to. Charming, funny, relaxed. Then a gorgeous woman looked my way and I'd become a sweating, babbling mess.

The fix took me years to find and ten minutes to learn. Nervousness and excitement are the same physical state — pounding heart, adrenaline, flushed face. Your brain just picks the label. And you can pick a better one.

Rule 16 shows you how. You feel the nerves, relabel them as excitement, and let that energy pour out as enthusiasm. Women notice the guy radiating it. They always do.

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zekko

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I'm generally a proponent of letting the girl bring it up. But I did say it first to my ex-wife. I knew from the first time we went out that we were going to get married though, I could just tell. And yes, we got divorced later, but only after a ten year relationship.

Seeing that just over half of the responses so far didn't end in disaster, maybe saying it first isn't as bad an idea as I had thought. Most of the time, I imagine that by the time someone says it, there is quite a mutual vibe going on.
 
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