"The Kiss of Death Mistake"

You replay the conversation at 2 a.m. She texted back fast yesterday. Today, nothing. Was that smile friendly or flirty? What did the shoulder touch mean?

Every hour you spend decoding her signals drains your confidence and hands her the controls. Women can sense that insecurity from across the room — and it repels them.

One of the "22 Rules" kills the obsession on the spot: assume she likes you, and act accordingly. Sounds too simple. Works anyway.

Her interest tends to rise to meet your expectations. Psychologists call it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Read more...

Did the first girl you liked, like you back?

Maxtro

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Think way back. Did the first girl you were interested in return the interest? I found an article that says our faults with women may have started when we got our first rejection. In my case the first girl I liked (when I was in 6th grade) hated me. So did the second one a few months later. Then all the girls I liked in Jr. High also hated me. So here I am a little boy growing up needing to get confidence and better social skills but all I get is disdain from girls. Fast forward to the present and its no wonder I am what I am now. If only the first few girls I liked, were nice to me and I was able to spend time with them. I would learn how to talk and act with girls and I’d simply be a better guy.

Here is the article.
Originally posted by Mike Pilinski author of Without Embarrassment


I'll bet the following statement is true for any guy reading this
who doesn't do well with the ladies: You don't really understand
what it is you're doing WRONG that makes you so unattractive to
women... for the *exact same reason* that "Casanova" who
scores left and right with them doesn't understand what he's
doing RIGHT.

Huh? Read that again if you have to. Both YOU and
Casanova are essentially clueless as to why you ended up the
way that you are in terms of your skill levels (or lack there of)
when it comes to charming and seducing women. Of course,
Mr. Casanova isn't unhappy about his situation, right? But you
sure are.

Theory Time: I believe that both sets of behaviors which lie
at opposite ends of the spectrum are the result of accidents that
occurred when you were both just beginning to notice girls in a
different light (sexually)... sheer random incidents which involved
elements of good or bad luck, and nothing more.

It went like this: YOUR first trial and error experiences
occurred with a girl that simply DIDN'T LIKE YOU (probably
because of personal issues that had nothing to do with you, but
so what?) You thus ended up with a completely negative
reinforcement of your early efforts at seduction and socialization.
This awkward and possibly *shameful* first try at romance
robbed you of the critical early confidence you needed to keep on
experimenting and practicing your skills. It kicked off a
descending spiral of inaccurate behaviors that led to more and
more failures with women as time passed, further stunting your
social development.

More failure resulted in a complete loss of confidence,
growing social ineptitude and a withdrawal from the game of
flirting and even attempting to seduce women. Your behavioral
changes might've progressed to episodes of delusional
thinking, dark fantasies, etc. In other words, your *character*
changed to make it even less likely that you could successfully
interact with women, and voila'... a "nerd" was born.

Casanova, on the other hand -- due to simple GOOD fortune
and nothing else -- may've tried the exact same moves during
his adolescence just as you did, but HE happened to choose a
girl that LIKED him, and therefore responded to his fumbling first
efforts favorably. Get the picture?... a positive reaction to the
exact same inept moves that you made! Merely because of
random good luck, he happened to choose to work a girl who
responded to him in an emotionally reinforcing way.

This "big break" (that you didn't get) gave Casanova
confidence AND positive social feedback -- which further
provided a laboratory to fine tune his behaviors. Perhaps he
even grew up in an environment that supported or encouraged
those initial experimental behaviors -- a supportive older
sister or a female friend that he could talk to in confidence
whenever he needed advice? Someone to make the female
psyche seem less mysterious and intimidating? You, on the
other hand, may've grown up in an all-male environment where
women seemed remote and unfathomable. Possibly your every
move in this arena was met with scorn or ridicule whenever you
actually tried to act, making you even more gun shy.

You learned to associate fear and paralysis with the idea of
courting a woman.

Anyway, here's my point: Your downward turn could've just
as easily have been an upward turn had your luck been good
instead of bad with those first experiences. I believe that this
element of LUCK is more pivotal in our lives that most of us
realize. The timing of the luck is critical. It sets the stage for
the interplay of key events upon which your self-image is
manufactured in fits and starts. You see, there is really no
fundamental difference between the Social Casanova and the
Social Coward. Both are simply the end result of being turned in
different directions at a critical point in their lives.

Stated differently, your current status as a social coward is
all "nurture" (or in your case, lack of it...) and NOT "nature". You
out there reading this trying to find some edge with women are
no more genetically programmed to fail socially than the
Casanova is to succeed... you both simply LEARNED how to do
it as you traveled along divergent social-life paths.

Think about it... What if that first nervous reach for affection
had gone differently? What if that first girl you ever asked out
had said yes and became your "girlfriend" instead of laughing in
your face and running off to tell her friends what a loser you
were? Imagine how your social skills and confidence would've
improved over the subsequent months and years if that time had
been spent in social interaction (good, bad or ugly) with women
instead of social isolation? It would've given you a whole
different concept of yourself and made you an entirely different
person than you are today.

And to think that it all turned on that one damned UN-lucky
first break!

It's time to stop handing random chance the power to direct
your destiny. Time to make a course correction back into the
world of the living (and the socializing). There are techniques to
make it easier than you might think, but it all begins with a
decision not to let the faded echo of a long-ago negative event
continue to shape your life. And until you make that decision,
nothing will ever really change for you.
[/QUOTE]
 

"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"

You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.

And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.

Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.

The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.

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Microphone Fiend

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nope, they call it a crush for a reason....

Anywho, try asking some chicks that question to evoke some old feelings they haven't been using, that "schoolgirl luv" syndrome ;)

Another common trait is the lack of a powerful father figure, butBlaming your faults on others isn't the right way to go. Just accept you had a rocky start and make a good ending. :)
 

Maxtro

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A lack of a powerful father? I'm not sure how it applies. I was also living with my dad at the time and he didn't seem to help.

I think this was also a big issue
a supportive older sister or a female friend that he could talk to in confidence whenever he needed advice.
I didn't have that either.

I know I have to work hard to make sure I have a good ending but it is interesting knowing how I became the me I am now.
 

NHY

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This is true, all of it.

I have no older sister, I live in a street that is mostly populated by OLD people, I went to all boys Schools until I was 14... Get the point?

And yes, my first move ended in rejection, causing me to adapt to a method of following a girl I like around in silence, something which I'm now ashamed of and have sworn NEVER to do again!
 

Austin Allegro

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There's definitely some truth in this. My first crush was on a girl in primary school, a real stunner (for an eleven year old anyway ;) ) who turned me down in favour of a little squirt who was rich, a tennis champ and who had appeared on a tv advert. She even gave me the LJBF line at the age of eleven!!

I also think having a sister can be harmful to a DJ. Now don't get me wrong, I love my older sister but I think as we were good mates through our older teenage years, I picked up a lot of AFC behaviour because of this - namely, try and be more like a woman than a man and you'll succeed with women!
 

"I just moved here from Florida."

That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?

She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."

She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.

I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.

Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.

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KiInCollege

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The important lesson to learn from this reference (GREAT find btw, Maxtro) is that it's never too late.

Start getting that positive reinforcement now. Learn from your past, but don't feel sorry for yourself. Find the woman that "likes you back" soon and start experimenting.

I guarantee you: if you find the right woman, you'll often feel like a kid anyway. Kindergarten all over again for you "born-nerds" out there.
 

Maxtro

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Thanks KiInCollege.

Most of us are in our early twenties or late teens. Sure we started off bad but our lives are far from over. Now we have the ability to tell when a woman is in to us so we don’t waste our time and risk getting hurt by some girl we never had a chance with. There are many more years to live left and many, many women in the world.

If I knew then what I know now I can honestly say my life would have been at lot happier. And it’s almost a guarantee that I would have had several girls by now. But at least now I’m learning from mistakes and I know things about women that I simply didn’t have a clue about.

I just can’t wait till Monday. The girl who has shown more interest in me than any other girl in my life is coming back from vacation. But if it doesn’t work out I’ll find somebody else but I’ll be much smarter than I was before I met her.

Austin I’m not sure if having a sister would be a bad thing. You get to see first hand how women think and act. Girls are not as foreign to you as they are to a lot of guys. Also girls have girlfriends and being around her friends as long as you somewhat similar in age can’t be a bad thing.

I really would like to hear something from the guys who have had “girlfriends” in their early years. Do you feel that it helped or hurt you game?
 

Crank_It_Up

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first girl I liked was in kindergarten, she liked me too, but we never did too much... just a quick kiss or two.

First grade was not as lucky... cute girl, irish, jet black hair, pretty face, slight freckles.. Regina Murphy was her name I think... she caught me staring at her in class and said "You might like me, but that doesn't mean I have to like you, and I don't" Ouch! Shot down in the prime of life, lol.

I agree that confidence in approaching women is built on experience, which is why your opinion of yourself should not be based on a few mishaps, but a lot of attempts.

Confidence also depends on personal self esteem or a sense of self worth, or how you rate yourself with the masses. In the looks, brains, and personality departments, are you above average or below average or just plain average?

Step 1 - improve yourself

Step 2 - believe in yourself

Step 3 - go for it
 

Dirtheart

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Actually most of my childhood crushes worked out pretty well and I had 3 "girlfriends" before the age of 10 and between the age of 10 and 13 I was getting 80% of the girls I was after. My love life took a bad turn between 14 and 20 when I put on a lot of weight and became a geek. It was this period that killed my self-esteem and it has only been during the past 2 years I've started to recover.
 

tactic

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YES
 

"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

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So Many Ways

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I saw this posted at the askmen BB also. Did the first girl I like like me back? No, and neither did the next 30 or so. I was definitely a late bloomer.
 

Maxtro

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Originally posted by Dirtheart
Actually most of my childhood crushes worked out pretty well and I had 3 "girlfriends" before the age of 10 and between the age of 10 and 13 I was getting 80% of the girls I was after. My love life took a bad turn between 14 and 20 when I put on a lot of weight and became a geek. It was this period that killed my self-esteem and it has only been during the past 2 years I've started to recover.
Wow you got lucky Dirtheart except for the whole getting fat part.

But so far the majority of guys didn't get thier first girl.

As for the article also being on askmen I just rememberd that it was also posted on sosuave :p Here
 

gentleman193

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I have no idea how many of the first 100 girls I liked liked me back b/c I was a chickensh*t and never told them.

But that is beside the point. This article is flawed. Think about it. While it is *possible* that all of your success and failure depends on just the first few encounters, it is highly unlikely. It suggests that you rapidly changed in response to a negative stimuli and for years never changed back. It's a romantic notion. But it is far more probable that Casanova had some quality women liked, even at a young age, which is why his crushes liked him back, while dorkus malorkus did not have this quality, which is why his first 100 crushes didn't like him back.

That's not to say you cannot learn this quality. It's just not likely that mating success is all the result of randomness. Because if it were, natural selection would not work; the outcome would always be random. And it's clearly not. It's clearly the alpha male that does the best in all species.

At the same time, your experiences as a youth will certainly effect your attitude. As far as I can recall, girls *hated* me. I was very shy, so older girls would bully me in grade school. Then in middle school I was taunted by girls for a slight deformity (something my sister never let me forget either and my mother would complain to my father about, fukking b!tch). In high school I had bad acne and "women" were like -- don't come near me, freak. College I had acne and braces, so the only girls who liked me were, um, not so attractive either. Meantime, my sister was a hot blonde who went through guys like kleenex and basically implied that I wasn't one of them (still does that actually). So, my attitude towards females could be summed up as "fukking self-centered man-using superficial biatches, better off without them."

Fast ffw ten years, lots of women are interested in me now b/c of my status, earning power, accomplishments, etc., and it seems I'm no longer so ugly. But my attitude inside is still the same. I feel like I know how most women *really* think -- shoes! chocolate!! puppies!!!! BABIES!!!!!! how can we use our puzzy to get that? -- and their present interest is just a masquerade to try to get a high-powered husband to help them hatch their limited supply of slowly rotting eggs in a den of luxury. I was able to learn the moves to please them which did not come naturally to me -- but changing my attitude so that I actually want to please them is something else entirely. I have 20 years experience telling me that most women are self-centered wenches who will use you and make you miserable, so I have difficulty considering any woman beyond the short-term. Long run, they all look like misery to me.
 

true|hockey

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the first girl I liked did not like me back, subsequently, I too had ( and currently have) trouble with women. I believe that my lack of self confidence came from more than the initial rejection, but initial rejection defiantly may have been a part of it.
 

"She's Out of Your League"

You've said it a hundred times. Maybe a thousand. And every time you say it, you train your brain to freeze the next time she walks into the room.

Leagues are a myth invented by guys who are scared of women.

She's a person. She has bad breath in the morning. She picks songs she can't sing in the shower. She overthinks her own texts.

Walk over. Say something. The league dissolves the second you open your mouth.

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Dirtheart

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I have been thinking this over and I think there is a lot of truth to it.

While I did get lucky when I was younger and had no fear of expressing interest or rejection, getting fat led to a lot of rejections, insults and low self-esteem and I just came to expect rejection after that and gave up trying. I even labelled myself as "not the type girls go for" and made it part of my identity.

Despite losing the weight and regaining female interest, the expectation of rejection has become deeply rooted in my personality, but since visiting this forum and practising various confidence exercises, I'm learning to break this negative perception of myself.
 

ali_g

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No. The first two weren't. That I think affected my confidence later on as for a while I missed out on some girls who were interested in me. Either I wasn't that interested in them or if I was, didn't have the confidence to think they were also interested in me after the first two.
 

Life-Trainee

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I didn't get much interest from girls prior 9th grade. I had a reputation of being a bad student and very shy. In the 9th grade there was one nerdy girl that had a terrible crush on me. Due to my obliviousness i completely did not pick up on her interest. Only now, 8 years later I realize this. She didn't talk to me for the rest of high school, although there was some glimmer of hope in her look. My ultra-low confidence through high school kept me devoid of girls. My confidence is 100 times better now. I have a "i dont give a damn" attitude now. And I'm working on improving my success with women.
 

R3N3G4D3

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I disagree with the article. I didn't read much into the replies so I'm not sure what opinion others have concerning it. The article says that our behavior towards girls depends on the first time we asked a girl. Well, I personally never even mentioned anything about liking to any girls prior to the beginning of this year (12th grade), meaning that it's not that I jsut got unlucky with my first approach. And while I got rejected on my first approach, it had the opposite effect on me from what the article describes. I noticed how other guys were having success and after getting rejected my first question immediatelly was "What do I do to make it work?" After this I went online onto google.com and typed in a few strings trying to find any dating advice I could find. Majority of it seemed like fluff. I stumbled upon hundreds of advices saying "Be yourself", "just do it", "be confident" etc. (which are in fact correct advices, but they are completely useless to a person who is shy and never tried asking a girl out), and I also found hundreds of advices of the type "bring her a huge bouqet of flowers and ask her" or "write her a love poem and put it in her locker" (even before coming to this site my heart screamed against doing something like this, and there is no way I was going to try that). Then I stumbled upon this site, and decided to read the bible. At first it didn't seem to make much sense, but after I read what I thought was important from it, compared it to some situations and other advices, and analyzed it, I began to understand the thinking behind it. Unfortunatelly, understanding it and being able to apply the knowledge are 2 different things, and it took me even more time to start trying to apply the techniques. Even now, I'm sure I need a lot more practice. But my point is, my first rejection had the opposite effect on me from what the article described. Instead of getting me into my own little 'nerd' world (as the article puts it), that rejection helped me get out of it.
 
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