Death of a Pickup Artist

[Gerange]

I applaude you IamnotaDJ, for posting something radically different on a site where almost every post is geared towards picking up chicks.

I can see things from your point of view, and honestly, you have things right. Most of the "don" tricks are counter-productive, as people are doing it so unnaturally it makes the girl wonder if something is wrong with the guy.

However, also think of things from my point of view.
You see a hot chick, you go talk to her, and you two may chat for a little while, then the conversation dies down and you leave.

You may get a number, but you call and nothing really happens.

And this happens, over and over and over and over and over again.
Trying not to be discouraged here, but I am starting to get a little pissed off, and like everything else in life, you might think there is some "magical" tricks you can learn. You start to view it like a sport, as if learnign to shoot from a new angle or a stronger twist of the wrist woudl solve the problem, but unfortunately, it doesn't seem that way.

So not, all of you smirk dons, laughing at AFCs and praising other dons, I ask you, what is the remedy?

I can already hear the answer, "oh, get a hobby", "yea, yea, get some new cloth". I've tried that, but how does that help me?

 

[ADifferentKindofDJ]

Wow... I have see this thread has gone off the deep end. That's ok though, I find it very interesting and something I thought about when I first came here.

First of all there are 3 different types of guys here:
1. the AFC who's trying to change. this includes the trolls and afc's actually doing the work.
2. the DJ who's going after what he wants in life. Not just women.
3. the PUA who's looking to score. We know what he's after.

Now I've been all three of these and it's a process. (Yes I even trolled it for awhile. ) As an AFC you don't know anything about chicks, you've forgot for what ever reason, so you come here to learn or maybe you end up at ASF. Eventually you'll end up a PUA or maybe you'll skip the PUA and go to DJ. You may even be 60 years old and still going PUA. Who knows? But I believe for most of us you'll end up DJing it and finding out what life is really about for you.

Ok, now for the women... I don't profess to be a master DJ, but I do know when I'm on top of my game. Because the game to me is between me and myself. No one else. The only way I figured this out was by getting the skills to establish social interactions between chicks. Time and time again I notice when a chick is in to me and I can go for the number. Being an older 'cough' DJ, I have a different view on woman and life. I take the true DJ way not the PUA and greatfully I'm past my AFC days. I'm looking for the 'one' to come along on my journey through life.

So how does the stuff on this site help you get women: like getting a hobby, clothes(or presentation), convo, approching...ect? They're all tools. Just like a good teacher has a box of tools to guide students to a new level. So a hobby that you do create a spark of excitement and mystery about you. It showes that you don't just sit in front of the computer/tv and be a troll to society. You have the balls to go and acheive something. You clothes or presentation shows that you care about what you look like. This doesn't mean you care what other people think, just that you care enough about yourself to present the best you to other people. I'd go over them all but I hope you get the point.

Some of us need these 'tools' to get to the next level. I know I did. The best compliment I ever got was from a coworker. She said: "Hey you look... you look like your very put together." So for me it's come together. Finally. 'sigh' It took me awhile, but it was worth it. Just today I was talking to a chick and deciding if I wanted her or not. Not if she wanted me. It'll happen for you. It takes time....

 

[Duke]

This was a post I made last year on ASF to a thread that's similar to this one. I think it's very relevant to the topic, and I think I said it better back then than I did just now. So enjoy:

Date Posted: 2005/01/08 05:31:00 PM EST
Author: Chance <unknown email address>
Subject: The Micro analyzing of The-Game

J Money's point of view really struck a chord in me, because it's the exact
same viewpoint I had before I immersed myself into the ASF methodology...

"Wow, this is way too ****ing complex! We're just talking to girls, here.
This stuff is information overload. If I learned all this stuff, I'd become
fake. Girls would only be interested in what I could do for them (the
techniques), and not in ME as a person (ego speaking)."

The harsh truth is that before you know a girl, she IS primarily interested in
what you can do for her...what kind of pleasurable emotional states you can
push her through... what you can reveal to her about herself... if you can pull
her out of a state of boredom and into one of excitement and joy. She has no
idea what you are like as a person yet, and she WON'T give you the chance to
show her unless you can sufficiently get her attention and attract her.

When I looked back on my past successes... successes that arose back when I was
on the Don Juan boards...I realized that I did some of what is broken down here
by TD, but I did it unconsciously, because my inner game was fantastic.

Things like not seeking approval, leaning back, etc...

I don't see the harm in consciously recognizing behaviors that lead to failure
and success...EVEN if it IS on a "micro" level. This might "destroy the magic"
for some guys, but the way I see it, ego is blinding you.

You have 2 choices...
"Be yourself" and trust that you are a cool guy and get relatively
unpredictable results and not know how you can improve or what went wrong, but
HAVE the satisfaction of knowing that "she likes you for you."
OR
Read and field-test theories and techniques found on mASF to reach predictable
phases of your seduction.


Human nature dictates that we ALL want to be valued for who we are. But what
MAKES US who we are? Our thoughts, and equally important, our BEHAVIORS make
us who we are. If some guy can tell me accurately which behaviors create
attraction in girls, then I'm going to listen to him so that I can implement
those behaviors into my life.

I don't feel that my current "self" is inadquate to attract girls. I know I'm
a cool guy at my core. I was ALWAYS a cool guy. I knew it and my friends knew
it. But girls could not always see how cool I was. They were BLINDED by my
unattractive behaviors. Why couldn't they see that I was cool?

Because I was not CONDITIONED all my life to appear "cool" to girls. I wasn't
consistently validated like the rich, prom king quarterback was. Other guys
had these advantages...but I did not because of the lifestyle that I was
handed.

To me, ASF is an equalizer. We have intelligence and analytical minds, so
figure out ways to reveal our naturally "cool" selves to girls and in effect,
attract them. To supplicate to them? NO! To take control over this aspect of
our lives. I'm in ASF for me; a side benefit is that every female I interact
with walks away feeling good.

A technique can be seen as supplication, sure. But then again so can your
ATTENTION. So can your time. So can the fact that you dial a phone to talk to
her and invest mental energy in setting up a meet.

It's not like we're buying the girl flowers or chocolate like many of us still
would be if we hadn't found this community. We're learning ways of
communicating that are more fun for the girl AND for us, and we also attract
her. We end up getting what we want.

It comes back to pickup being a SKILLSET.

If you were learning how to play an instrument... you could try to figure it
out by messing around with it forever...OR you could go get lessons. Would you
feel "fake" for getting lessons? Would you feel like less of a musician
because of it?

ASF is pick-up lessons. There's no reason to feel less validated just because
you are LEARNING what works, step-by-step, instead of "winging it" or doing it
"naturally." What matters is whether or not you are getting what you want. If
I have to take lessons to become great at an art, so be it. The lessons don't
make the art any less artful.

People seem to carry a stigma that it's harmful to break down social
interactions to such a scientific degree. But isn't that the AFCs' argument
when you present them with ASF? "**** that, dude. Stop reading that ****.
You can't read how to get chicks."

In ASF, you're presented with atoms that make up social interactions with
girls. I don't see the harm in looking at the neutrons, protons, and electrons
of it all as long as you can still see the big picture.

So TD wants to look at the ****in' QUARKS, now. So what? Maybe one doesn't
NEED to break it down to such a microscopic degree, but I don't see how it's
harmful. Whenever I read TD's IV/TV post, I just absorbed it, assimilated it.
It's something I already knew on a deeply unconscious level, but he brought it
into the light. I can see how it could be harmful if a guy is in the field
trying to process it all in real-time, but I don't think it was ever intended
to be utilized that way... rather just as something to be assimilated.

I also want to add that TD's posts have helped my INNER game quite a bit, as my
understanding of a topic increases my confidence to carry out the task at hand.

"The courage of the soldier is heightened by the knowledge of his profession."
-Flavius Vegetius Renatus


-Chance

 

[Skydiver43127]

Actually, I believe you're talking about 2 different things here.

One is knowledge. Knowledge is fundamentally good. Using knowledge is alsoo allright. I like knowledge.

But the other is self-identification. Lifestyle. Knowing math does not turn you into a geek. Thinking and talking about math 24/7 turns you into a geek. Spending whole nights on practicing math also does. The same is with dating (by the way, calling it 'pickup' is already one step in the wrong direction)- many people use it not to enhance their lives, but to define their lives. And that makes them weird.

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by Skydiver43127
Actually, I believe you're talking about 2 different things here.

One is knowledge. Knowledge is fundamentally good. Using knowledge is alsoo allright. I like knowledge.

But the other is self-identification. Lifestyle. Knowing math does not turn you into a geek. Thinking and talking about math 24/7 turns you into a geek. Spending whole nights on practicing math also does. The same is with dating (by the way, calling it 'pickup' is already one step in the wrong direction)- many people use it not to enhance their lives, but to define their lives. And that makes them weird.

Originally posted by Tyler Durden on mASF. "Why u should ignore lifestyle & be a social robot" Link not available.

<TylerDurden> wrote in message
news:261420.41781@discussion.fastseduction.com...
> First of all, being a social robot is cool. I like being a social robot.
> It's
> fun. So **** Y'ALL.
>
> Second, chances are if you're reading this site, your game ain't that
> great.
> And if your game ain't that great, the missing piece AIN'T LIFESTYLE. The
> missing piece is GAME.
>
> You think you need some ELABORATE LIFESTYLE to PULL A CHICK?! LOL..
>
> This **** isn't entertaining the Queen.. Cummon!
>
> Newsflash: I lived in a congested CLOSET with a single mattress in it for
> a
> year, and got laid more than anyone at Project Hollywood for the duration
> of
> the time I was there (unless you count not going out and having sex with
> the
> same girl over and over as getting laid, in which case I did pretty bad.)
>
> And before that - I travelled for a year sleeping on the floors of hotel
> rooms
> that I usually shared with six or eight guys. And you want to know what I
> did
> then? I pulled girls from clubs back to the hotel bathroom (while they
> asked -
> "What are all these guys doing in here?!") and turned on the shower to
> cover
> up the noise and turned the lights off so they would forget they were
> hooking
> up with a guy they just met in a BATHROOM!
>
> Every day I read these guys saying that their missing piece is lifestyle.
> SHUT
> THE **** UP!! The missing piece is YOU SUCK..
>
> Guys might clown me for living ****ty for a year to save money while I
> built a
> business and a skillset. Well, I don't blame them. Because they aren't
> where
> I'm at right now, and they probably never will be. They know they're not
> getting to the level I'm at because they aren't willing to give up the
> comforts
> that I was willing to give up in order to get there. So they'd might as
> well
> find fault in SOMETHING.
>
> I remember living at Project Hollywood, and guys would talk to me about
> LIFESTYLE like "Why do you go out so much?" or "Why not get a girlfriend?"
> or
> "Why hang out with PUAs and not girls?" Like, as if getting an LTR or
> female
> friends was some kind of accomplishment or rocket science that I didn't
> have
> since I was nineteen.
>
> Most of them sat around the house watching movies or playing video games
> or
> sniffing whip-its, or just chilling with the same girl every single day.
> Apparently they had big things on the go, I don't know. I mean really, I
> don't
> know. I didn't see anything come out of it, but it's very possible that
> they
> did.
>
> I just knew one thing: I had MY OWN reasons for being there in the first
> place, and I wasn't going to let peer pressure from guys who had changed
> up
> their plans at the half way mark distract me from following through with
> the
> goals that I'd set for myself (to actualize my potential, by developing
> the
> social skills I was capable of).
>
> In the case of Pro Ho, I was paying more than I could afford to live in
> West
> Hollywood, and I'd made the commitment BEFORE I'd moved in that if I was
> going
> to stretch myself like that then I would work on my skillset EVERY DAY.
>
> Here's why:
>
> I knew I was paying THROUGH THE NOSE to live in an overpriced house in
> West
> Hollywood, two minutes away from the bars. If I want to do something
> OTHER
> than sarge girls in West Hollywood venues, then I'll do it somewhere
> CHEAPER.
> Sure, I met great girls to be in LTRs with (at the end of the lease, I
> picked
> my favourite one and we're still together.) But at that point my outlook
> was,
> "I have the rest of my life to be in an LTR and hang out with
> NON-community
> friends, whereas I've got 12 months to live with PUA wingmen right beside
> the
> hottest clubs in West Hollywood."
>
> Now don't get it confused - lifestyle is the shizzznet. The epiphany that
> lifestyle is more efficient than sarging (IF your game is already tight)
> is
> spot on. Whoever came up with that one was a smart dude (Wait, wasn't I
> one of
> the first dudes to start spreading that out of common sense?! I forgot!)
> When
> you roll out and you've got people coming up on you giving you props and a
> circle of cool guy and girlfriends to draw new girls into that's GREAT.
>
> But guys have the ORDER of how this goes down TWISTED.
>
> When I roll out, I'm not running up on girls like "pump, pump, pump,
> number"
> and jumping to the next girl like a monkey swinging off of branches. I'm
> in
> the club to have a good time, and I'm meeting all sorts of people. I've
> got
> all that lifestyle **** on lock automatically. Is this **** so
> complicated as
> to even need whole posts on it?!
>
> I have more female friends that I could ever keep track of from all the
> sarges
> I did that didn't result in sex. And I've got guy friends as well since
> making
> friends with guys is automatic because of commonalities. I know more
> people in
> any club in Los Angeles than a lot of famous socialites do. I could write
> a
> book on LIFESTYLE. But I never made a CONCIOUS EFFORT do implement it,
> other
> than to be a cool guy and go out and get to know people and going with the
> flow.
>
> Why was I able to do this? BECAUSE OF GAME. If you're a CHODE and you're
> rolling out trying to build this lifestyle, people don't take it
> seriously.
> Nobody wants to hang with chodes, no matter what their lifestyle is. They
> might use them to get into a party, but they're not HANGING with them. So
> that
> wasn't my approach. I built lifestyle AUTOMATICALLY and PROACTIVELY
> through
> the game. It was simple, once I had the base of social skills.
>
> And you know what's cool about it? When I talk to people and they want to
> hang
> out, it's because of ME and MY SOCIAL SKILLS.. Not some lifestyle I built
> to
> make people want to use me for connections. I might build these
> connections
> NATURALLY, but it's on top of what I've already got.. I'm definitely not
> going
> to be one of those guys who can't travel to a different city or country
> and
> can't get meet girls because my crew isn't on hand. That whole philosophy
> is
> BACKWARDS LOOKING. It's REGRESSIVE.
>

 

[Duke]

> I read these posts by guys who I've met personally and who I know aren't
> the
> types to be cool or to have people wanting to hang with them, and they're
> telling me that they're building lifestyle and inner game. I'm thinking
> to
> myself "If you had the social skills, then the lifestyle would COME TO
> YOU..
> And your inner game would be good because you'd offer a good energy to
> people
> and have something real to feel good about rather than doing incantations
> and
> deluding yourself that you're the prize when you have nothing to back it
> up.."
>
> So what was my reasoning for being a champion social robot and going full
> out
> at this game **** for three years? Simple. I had a plan, and I carried
> it
> through. The way I see it, if I'm going to make a plan and I can't stick
> to
> it, then I can't assume that I'm going to stick to ANYTHING. So I follow
> through with the ****, and when it's done I move onto something else.
>
> Guys asked me all the time why I came back to college to study useless
> literature and philosophy when my career is already built. Why? Because
> back
> in the day I made a plan to GRADUATE COLLEGE. So I'm coming back to carry
> out
> that plan.
>
> Most of the guys at Pro Ho said they were going to go out every night when
> they
> moved in. But when it came down to doing it, most of them were too busy
> having
> epiphanies about how the game was evil and they needed to broaden their
> horizons. And they'd see me going out every night, and they'd talk up all
> sorts of **** (never to my face, where they were always SUPER cool and
> friendly
> to me, but when I wasn't around or in spiteful books) "He's a SOCIAL
> ROBOT!!
> He needs to find validation FROM WITHIN!!"
>
> I'd see this going on, and inside I'd be thinking - "Look, I go out to
> meet
> girls and have a good time, and to develop my social skills to a point the
> level I know I'm capable of. If YOU were going out to fill some internal
> void,
> there's no need to PROJECT that **** ******dly onto the rest of us. Sorry
> if
> you don't like to bang hot chicks anymore, but the game isn't played at
> the
> lowest common denominator like that. Guys who enjoy it should be able to
> talk
> about it without those kind of projections being put onto them."
>
> When I came into this game, like MANY GUYS I made the decision to dedicate
> a
> few years to it and reaching a certain skill level. The difference was
> just
> that I stuck to it, even past the point where I HAD to out of neediness
> and it
> was actually for fun.
>
> I mean, the game is a GOOD THING. It's not a ****ing FAD. You can make a
> FAD
> of "direct" or "indirect" or "attract" and "rapport." But you can't say
> that
> the ENTIRE GAME is a FAD. This **** has improved my life on so many
> levels.
> And there's other guys for whom it SAVED THEM from becoming introverted
> haters
> for the rest of their lives.
>
> If YOU want these skills, don't let these rash of posts about lifestyle
> and
> balance hold you back. Especially since this whole EITHER/OR thing
> doesn't
> even make sense. You can develop them BOTH at the same time. At this
> point I
> have the lifestyle and the balance AND the game. I just went after it IN
> A
> NATURAL ORDER and ONE PIECE AT A TIME.
>
> So do what you want to do. Take feedback, but in the end don't worry what
> other people will say. A lot of people dissed me for my choices. They
> felt
> fit to be CRITICS of what I'm doing, and to make an occupation of making
> subjective judgements on my decisions and doing what was right for ME at
> the
> time. And if I'd listened to them, I guess I wouldn't be getting dissed.
> But
> then, where would I be? I'd be where somebody ELSE thought I should be,
> not
> where I wanted to be MYSELF. So I guess what I'm trying to say is to
> think
> about that, and to do what's best for you.
>
>
> -TD
> RSD (c) 2005
> 100% Content - 0 % Political Flame Bull****

 

[Q-Pid]

When I learn a new sport i learn the new rules of the game. Whether i succeed or fail is due to how much of myself i put into it. A man cannot succeed on rules alone. But a man cannot succeed on himself alone, I cannot play a new sport if I do not know the rules.

PU is about incorporating the techniques into your own self, not changing who you are to someone else. It's ALL about inner game.

 

[fyrefly]

Originally posted by I am not a DJ
snip

livejournal.com










........because we don't care






.....seriously, we don't.

 

[Chillisauce]

Personally i agree with most of what the OP stated.

Become a DJ, not a PUA.

Dont make me quote 'Eye of the Tiger'...