Dear Prudence

[ChumpNoMore]

A site I occasion for news has an advice column...
http://www.slate.com/id/2222012/

Do you agree with Prudence's advice?

Dear Prudence,
Several years ago, I moved to South America. During my first few months there, I became fast friends with a local man. He was a wonderful source of help during an otherwise lonely time. After several months of friendship, we started a relationship, which lasted only briefly, as we realized that we were better friends than lovers. Eventually, I moved back home to the United States. My friend recently contacted me to tell me he is coming here for several months for work. I was thrilled at the chance to see him again and happy to help him navigate my country as he helped me in his. I'm now engaged, however, and my fiance was furious. He told me that all past relationships should stay in the past and that I should not be in contact with this man. I offered to see my friend only with my fiance present or with a group of friends, but he wouldn't accept that. As a threat, my fiance said he was going to start contacting his ex-girlfriends. He has trust issues because his mother cheated on his father and her other husbands. I can't stand the thought of hurting my fiance, but I don't want my friend to have to navigate a foreign country alone, either. I also don't want to bear the burden of my fiance's mother's mistakes. What should I do?

—The Fiance, the Immigrant, and Me

Dear Me,
The country wasn't Argentina, was it? It's been in the news lately as the international capital of romance. Unfortunately, now your fiance has another argument for his unreasonable demand: the example of South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford, who, apart from being more attractive to women than the guy in the Dos Equis commercials, has made suspect the assertion "We're just friends!" However, I believe you're just friends, and so should your fiance. In a way, it's even more believable since you and your friend tried the sparking thing, and the flame thoroughly fizzled. Because he's your friend, it would be normal to invite him to dinner to catch up with you and meet your fiance. That your fiance has made that impossible is insulting to you and him. But more than that, your fiance doubts you and is threatening your relationship not because of anything you've done but because of his unreliable mother. Your South American friend was a help to you when you were lonely, and he's turned out to be an unwitting help to you now that you're not. If you give in to your fiance's demand, then expect to lead a married life in which you have little ability to have friendships and work relationships with men; in which your communications and whereabouts are constantly scrutinized. Your fiance needs to get some help working through his "trust issues" before you get married. Unless he does, you will spend many years atoning for his mother's infidelity.

—Prudie

 

[LeftyLoosey]

There's a lot missing from the story. How exactly do you go from friends to lovers and back again? We need to know if he dumped her or if she dumped him. If she dumped him, maybe he's trying to get a second go at her. If he dumped her, maybe she's hoping to get another chance at it. I've never heard of a simultaneous mutual break-up; someone has to make the first move. Either way, someone's going to be harbouring romantic feelings for the other.

Is the fiance overly jealous? No. Should he let his fiancee show this man from her past around town? Absolutely not. He's right when he draws the analogy of having an ex-girlfriend doing the same thing. His fiance would definitely not find it appropriate.

All he should've said to her when he found out about this man was, "if an ex-girlfriend of mine was moving into town and asked me to show her around, how would you feel about it?"

If she has an ounce of honesty in her, that would be the end of it.

 

[jophil28]

All he should've said to her when he found out about this man was, "if an ex-girlfriend of mine was moving into town and asked me to show her around, how would you feel about it?"

If she has an ounce of honesty in her, that would be the end of it.

OH, that would be different because SHE would not like it.

You forget (as we all do ) that women have NO problem with living by double standards when it suits them.
Good behavior, respect, loyalty and decency is what she rigidly expects of YOU. However, her own compliance with these behaviors and chacteristics is entirely situational and subject to her whims and feelings.

 

[Luthor Rex]

Either you trust your girl or you don't. Obviously, for whatever reason, this guy doesn't trust his girl.

Considering how much cheating and general ass-hattery goes on in American culture, I think the best way to show your partner respect is to be "above suspicion". What I mean is, to act in a way where you do your best to not even accidentally end up in a situation that could even look bad. If I were engaged / married I would certainly act this way and expect the same of my wife. If she's too self-centered to deal with it, then it's time to move on.

:rockon:

 

[STR8UP]

OH, that would be different because SHE would not like it.

You forget (as we all do ) that women have NO problem with living by double standards when it suits them.
Good behavior, respect, loyalty and decency is what she rigidly expects of YOU. However, her own compliance with these behaviors and chacteristics is entirely situational and subject to her whims and feelings.

Welcome to the world of the modern western female.

My last LTR thought absolutely nothing of remaining in contact with her ex b/f. She even went so far as to ASK ME if it was ok if he came and stayed at her place (parents house) while he was in town.

I was heavily invested in that relationship. She was hot. She was young. We got along fabulously. The sex was out of this world. But in retrospect this should have been a deal breaker.

The problem these days is EXACTLY what jophil described.

Women are given permission by society to label you as controlling and jealous, but are utterly incapable of seeing the hypocrisy when she goes ballistic on you for the friend request you get from your ex on facebook. Very, very few women can see that there is ZERO difference, even though it is blatantly obvious. They apply rules and standards when it suits them, but it's always "different" when the shoe is on the other foot.

Notice how in this case she used the rationalization of needing to "help" this guy or "return a favor"? This is how women think. All they have to be able to do is find a justification and it becomes perfectly acceptable in their minds.

Unfortunately this is a no-win situation. You either get pissed and you're an ass hole, or you buy the "jealous control freak" bit and suck it up, all the while knowing you are being PUNKED.

My remedy for this kind of situation in the future?

If a chick ever even mentions something like this to me I will walk away. Depending upon the chick and the degree of severity of the situation I might let her cry for a week and then let her spend the next few months trying to win me back. 99% of the time when something like this happens it's a sign that she still has attraction for him, and her attraction for you isn't strong enough to prevent her from even considering it.

This is how almost all women think these days, BTW.

 

[ChumpNoMore]

Good perspectives fellas.

I noticed that Prudence was quick to back the complainant (wife) up without considering the husbands view, dismissing him as insecure and controlling.

 

[jophil28]

Good perspectives fellas.

I noticed that Prudence was quick to back the complainant (wife) up without considering the husbands view, dismissing him as insecure and controlling.

I am normally a fan of Prudence's advice- her conservative leanings match my own.
However in this case I disagree with her opinion , not so much with her endorsement of the writer's desire to meet up with an old boyfriend, but more the withering attack on the writers' fiance.
Prudence lost me as a fan on this one.

 

[ketostix]

To me, this is the crux of Prudence's argument. Should one allow their fiance or wife to make male friends?

I think allowing your wife to have male "friends" she hangs out with especially unmarried ones is how you end up with a cheating wife. These guys are not trying to be friends. They want to bone her and they will. She could cheat anyway but why OK the opportunity.

 

[jophil28]

To me, this is the crux of Prudence's argument. Should one allow their fiance or wife to make male friends?

Good point, and a very difficult question to answer simply.

Back to this woman for a moment.
What would be acceptable behavior from her if the ex B/f turned up as planned, and after a day of sightseeing, he suggests dinner for 'two' to thank her? Does she accept the invite, go home, get dressed in front of her fiance and kiss him as she walks out on her way to a dinner with the ex. ?

Does she "show him the sights" at night as well as daytime ,or only before sundown?.
Does she invite him to meet her fiance and allow them to trade "stories" about her ?
What would constitute "acceptable" sightseeing in the first place?

 

[jophil28]

I think allowing your wife to have male "friends" she hangs out with especially unmarried ones is how you end up with a cheating wife. These guys are not trying to be friends. They want to bone her and they will. She could cheat anyway but why OK the opportunity.

Indeed.

How many men do you know who pursue women purely for "friendship"?

 

[WaterTiger]

The problem is that we never get the whole story...just a few lines saying:"He said this and she said that, what now?"

If I was engaged, then I'd consider my guy to be joined to my hip. If I meet anyone, he comes with. If I get a letter, he can read it, ect. Personally, I think this woman is nuts for even considering to show the old BF the town. Even more nuts for doing it without her fiance. Where I go, he goes.

As for condeming Prudence for lashing out at the fiance for being immature & controling...Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. But it is a red flag when your partner starts choosing friends for you. We don't get a real good feel for what went on when she broached the subject.

But as LeftyLoosey pointed out, if his ex GF came into town, he'd be beaten by hoards of wild Fem-Nazis for even suggesting that he offer "sight-seeing tours" to her.

When Argentinio Stud Muffin called, her response should have been: "My fiance and I would be happy to show you around town. He's such a great guy! I think you'll like him!"

Anything else would be insulting to the man & the relationship.

 

[decades]

the fiance obviously has very strong boundaries. And she is not used to that.

 

[decentguy]

I would love to hear other perspectives too.

My past LTR ended when she started hanging out with a guy friend she made at the gym. At first, I tried playing it cool, as I'm not the jealous type. I found out she was flirting with him suggestively and was offering him lifts home. Needless to say, it all went down the crapper shortly after that.

The best part? She would get jealous when a female friend of mine wanted to hang out with me, and tell me that it wasn't okay. Yet when I confronted her about her flirting with her new gym friend, she accused me of being insecure and "creepy".

Oh, and this was a conservative girl who was raised with "traditional" values.

Women really do have double standards.
I agree with STR8UP. From now on, if a LTR pulls this sh!t on me, I will stop communicating with her and become scarce. I will not get upset, because she knows exactly what she's doing and I don't need to overtly tell her that it's wrong.

 

[STR8UP]

1. Ex-Bf's.
2. Male friends from before your time with her.
3. New male friends she has recently made.

True.

Although I feel pretty strongly about a woman who tries to pull this kind of sh!t, there is some grey area.

I know a lot of chicks. If a woman I am dating expects me to drop my entire social circle for her, she's out. But a basic respect for boundaries should be practiced by BOTH parties.

No woman should even mention getting together with an ex. Of course with the definition of "ex" being VERY subjective, this is hard to put a finger on.

My take- if there has EVER been any romantic interest on her end, she shouldn't have contact. The bad part about this is that the only way we can know is by observing them together. Words lie....body language doesn't.

In the situation from the article, if I were the guy I would have walked. If it were something else, like her going to happy hour once in awhile with coworkers or having lunch with a male colleague, I would keep my eyes open. If she gets a facebook request from a guy her friend used to date, whatever.

You gotta play these things on a case by case basis. If you start to feel disrespected, chances are good you ARE being disrespected and things aren't going to end up well.

Always keep ahold of your nutsack and you'll be ok.

 

[Luthor Rex]

I think allowing your wife to have male "friends" she hangs out with especially unmarried ones is how you end up with a cheating wife. These guys are not trying to be friends. They want to bone her and they will. She could cheat anyway but why OK the opportunity.

:yes:

 

[ketostix]

1. Ex-Bf's.
2. Male friends from before your time with her.
3. New male friends she has recently made.

One and 3 are out immediately. With 3. a woman should not be making new male "friends" while she's in a relationship. She will either cheat on you with some of them or will branch swing all together. I would say 2. would be questionable. You'd have to know that this guy doesn't have anything against you and isn't trying to put a wedge between you and your girl, and you'd have to know that she's not hanging out wth an old male friend to hang out with other males by extension. I would say not to all three. You already have her female friends causing a bad influence, there's no need to let guys into the gate too. Which brings up another point. Ideally it would be best if she didn't have too many female friends especially single ones if you want to minimize the opportunity for her to cheat and branch swing.

I've noticed something about women who stay married and don't cheat. They not out working on a real job and they don't hang out male "friends" or have many friends at all.

 

[DJDamage]

After several months of friendship, we started a relationship, which lasted only briefly, as we realized that we were better friends than lovers.

Anyone is buying the "we" argument here?! there is alot of missing info here which this woman has cleverly omitted in order to not perjuries herself.

Almost every woman I know (these days) is keeping their ex boyfriends around in some capacity and then saying to everyone within an ear shout "oh he is just my ex but we are now friends, most of my exes are still my friends".

You know who really is responsible for this ? Its those pussified men who have allowed themsleves to enter a LTR with women with exe's still floating around and thus making this an acceptable behaviour for the masses. Nowadays if you utter your dissaprovement to women about this cultural phenomenon, they will just chew you out with their shaming tactics.

That fiance' of hers should drop her like a hot potato if he knows what's good for him. Its not a question anymore whether she will cheat or not but has to do with her fiance' validation of concern and respect which were both dismissed by his future wife in favour of her whims. This woman is therefore not marriage material.