Dealing with depression

[Noodles]

Problem is, I can’t shake this sense of desolation. I’ve got a few good buddies to hang out with which definitely helps, but at the end of the day I’m just freaking lonely as hell. It’s a tough thing to talk about when you’re a grown man, because it’s not only embarrassing but it’s really not a problem anyone wants to hear about.

...

To make matters worse, my old oneitis makes sporadic contact with me, and naturally being at a point of weakness I entertain thoughts of redemption with her, which is obviously not good for my mental health.

Depression is a serious and very real issue and something I dealt with quite a lot in the military. Women generally talk much more openly about their emotions with their friends then guys do. Classically men will use their girlfriend for their emotional support - hence so many of you get so attached to them. Once they're gone, your 'oneitis', it leaves a hole. Although you have friends, you're feeling lonely and your current crowd don't allow you to express this.

In the military things are slightly different. We're often not in positions to make real relationships, so eventually those borders come down within our squad - people stop worrying about seeing the other guys naked, you talk about stuff, you cry. Sometimes you see (or have to do) horrible things. I remember having to clutch a sobbing signals operator to my cheek after a particularly violent contact in the FATA area of Pakistan. Sounds gay? It was all we had - and you need to get through these moments. It's hard to worry about what people think of you after that. It's the same reason military guys (or indeed people with strong team bonds) are often more relaxed about women - we can find that deep friendship with other guys. It's also what pushes you on when things hurt, and why it's so hard to leave.

When I left 2 1/2 years ago I did find it hard to adapt back to civvy street. My entire 'family' was spread around the UK or still fighting. But I did what I was trained to do - I sought out that extended family. For me it was joining a rugby club. The team spirit - the comradery was the closest I could find for what was missing in my life - esprit de corps. When you trust your team, when you push yourself that extra mile for the man next to you, and when you know he'll do the same for you...you're not lonely. You can talk about anything. Seek out and join a team. Become something more than you are on your own. It'll change your identity - you can become Colossus, a member of XYZ.

And hey...maybe eventually you'll get to see another guy piss into a glass and one of you will have to take the forfeit to drink it. Just pray it's not you!

 

[Colossus]

Hey thanks Noodles, that's real stuff.

I always admired you military guys; you're a cut above us civilian chums. I've actually contemplated joining the service here in the states after grad school as an officer...but it is a long commitment. Still weighing my options. Thanks again though, good stuff.

 

[5string]

Hey thanks Noodles, that's real stuff.

I always admired you military guys; you're a cut above us civilian chums. I've actually contemplated joining the service here in the states after grad school as an officer...but it is a long commitment. Still weighing my options. Thanks again though, good stuff.

Seriously consider this. I did it. Best experience of my life and have no regrets. Combat arms is the way to go. Army or Marine Corps.

 

[Noodles]

I always admired you military guys; you're a cut above us civilian chums. I've actually contemplated joining the service here in the states after grad school as an officer...but it is a long commitment. Still weighing my options. Thanks again though, good stuff.

It's nice of you to say, but I honestly don't believe that.

I've never been brave.
I never fought for my country.
I never fought for my regiment or even battalion.
I fought for the man next to me. You don't let your team down - that more than anything makes me scared.

Two statements I would tell my boys (I came up with both whilst drunk):
1. You're part of something bigger than you. You're part of something that define you. You're part of a purpose.
2. The best teams are built down the pub.

Yeah...the second one was more popular!

Anyway I only joined up because my mother couldn't afford to send me to Uni without officer sponsorship! You don't have to join up to get that though - but you do seem like you need some real male companionship - the kind you know have really always got your back. Try a team sport...you don't have to be good - the only thing I bring to the rugby field is speed - I can't catch for sh*t!

 

[Die Hard]

Just out of curiosity, is there any area of your life where you can't figure out why you don't do better with it? I'm asking in the interest of exploring the topic; I'm not trying to prove any point. You sound like a "just get 'er done" kind of guy, and I wonder if you have any kind of isolated issue(s) that you can't quite get a handle on.

I struggle with lots of things. But when you're in that situation you're talking about, where you "can't figure out why you don't do better with it", the problem is often not about "figuring it out" but more like a motivation problem. The very fact that you are trying to figure it out, means you're despairing and losing faith. You must not allow yourself to do that, you have to persevere... Like someone else here said, you gotta assume the sale and keep assuming it!

Colossus refuses to answer my question but I'll get into it anyway: It's not about putting enough effort into it, it's about perseverance and being convinced that you'll get there eventually. You can put all the effort you have into something but still fail and this can make you lose faith. That's where perseverance comes into play: you gotta persevere, keep making that effort, and be convinced that you'll succeed eventually. Many times when you start looking for a solution (like you are doing something wrong and need to change something), the "solution" is simply persevering.

Compare it to lifting weights: You can pick up a weight and put all your effort into it, but you won't be able to lift it more than 2 times. This could make you believe that you will NEVER be able to lift it more than 2 times. "Look, I'm lifiting this goddamn weight everyday but I never get past 2 reps! I'll never make it!" You begin to despair and lose faith, which causes anxiety and sort of a 'panic' feeling: "I don't know what to do! I just can't get past 2 repetitions! Help!" But how long have you been doing this? 5 days? 10 days? 15 days? If you keep lifting that weight 2 times everyday for a longer time (say a month) you will get past 2 reps, eventually.

You see? You're putting in all your effort everyday but you can't get past two reps. So you start to despair and lose faith and don't know what to do. You'll say: "It's not an effort problem". Nope, but it's a perseverance problem. You gotta keep the faith, gotta be convinced that even though you won't make it at this moment, you will make it eventually, if you just keep putting all your effort into it for a longer time.



DISCLAIMER (lol): I'm not saying perseverance is the be all end all solution to every problem you're dealing with. Sometimes you simply are doing it wrong and need to change your ways. Sometimes it is needed to look at conflicting beliefs inside of you etc. But that just depends on the situation you're dealing with, it's different for each situation you're dealing with in life. But whether the solution is to keep doing what you're doing, or whether you need to do something else, you always need to keep the faith, always be convinced that you'll get there eventually. Persevering doesn't neccesarily apply to keep doing more of the same thing and keep being convinced that you'll make it if you keep that up, it also applies to keep looking for a solution and keep being convinced that you'll find the solution. The following quote from Colossus has to do with that:

I think a lot of men go through these emotional and mental periods of 'wilderness', where it is dark, you're alone, and not sure if you'll ever make it out.

Not being sure if you'll ever make it out... You must never allow this thought, you gotta stay convinced that you'll make it. Even though you don't know how to make it at this point, YOU KEEP PERSEVERING and you keep the faith, you stay convinced that you will make it somehow. You do not panic and let this "I don't know what to do! HELP! I don't see a way out! ALARM!! ALARM!!" feeling crawl up to you. You stay calm and keep going, you don't despair.

 

[sodbuster]

One final thought. Is it Seasonally Affected Disorder?[I think it's called], Fairly simple to fix it. get full spectrum lights that give off ALL the lightwaves that natural sunlight does. Then when you are in the house studying, your body thinks it's getting all the sunlight it does on a nice summer day.

Christmas usually sucks for me,but this year it wasn't so bad..... not good,just sucked less.

 

[Colossus]

Die Hard:

Your question does not demand my answering. I DO know the origin of these feelings, I just dont feel the need to get into great detail on the forums and get a differential diagnosis I dont really need. I appreciate your advice, but your writing tells me you are not speaking from personal experience when it comes to depression. Telling someone to just persevere is missing the point. Of course low points will pass, but unless it's just an isolated sad spell, it is going to return with certain triggers and conditions until the underlying root is dealt with. That is what I was getting at in my subsequent posts. I dont need to spill all my personal beans here, I was just looking for some support, which was graciously given. Thanks again to all.

 

[saber]

Its weird reading this because just a few months ago I felt really really alone.

Even when I was seeing someone there just wasn't a connection like you said. I saw my old oneitis drive by last week and those feelings hit me like a brick wall. Its weird how you can have more emotion from seeing someone from 200 feet away than a 3 month relationship with whatever chick.

I haven't read a lot of your other posts colossus but do you ever think that growing up and becoming an independent person has damaged your ability to connect. Versus when you were in younger and probably dumber/less opinionated with less direction in life. You sound like myself in the sense that you have goals and you accomplish them. Ive lately felt that my life has so much direction and I'm so sure of whats going on that I cant compromise my mindset enough to form that almost singularity of thought that comes from a great relationship. Just curios...

 

[Die Hard]

Colossus, me pointing out the fact that you didn't answer my question, doesn't neccesarily mean I want to force you to answer it. I didn't.

Anyway, you didn't get my explanation. Perhaps you will if you read it again without the assumption that the writer is trying to force you to do anything.

 

[guru1000]

Yo Colossus,

Many men including myself experienced this depression in their 20s. Your 20's is the decade where you build your foundation, education and/or finances and map your MAN guidelines for the future.

I can unquestionably tell you this:

Once you have completed your education, started earning your six-figure income, and seasoned your employment for several years, you will ENJOY life without trying to enjoy life. Even more importantly, you will have the resources available so you genuinely won't "give a fvck."

Your outlook and feelings are normal and rational. This is part of growth. Later in life, in your prime earning years, you will look back at how far you've traveled, the sacrifices you've made, and hurdles you've overcome, and love the life that YOU built -not to mention, you will be swimming in pzssy.

You're on the right course; sometimes you just need to know that you are. Finish your laps now.

 

[quatroburn]

Life has it's ups and downs. I have been at rock bottom not a long while ago. It's at that point where you feel very lonely and realize everything is a joke, that most of the people you hang out with are not really your friends. Even if you have known them for years. They laugh at you, talk bad about you. They make subtle jokes and try to make you feel inferiour. Because they know some of your weaknesses they will try to exploit you. Some people just grow apart due to different lifestyles or just disinterest. Or they drain your energy.
Or like as said before they are couples buying a house, getting kids and they won't have as much time. It's sad to see it like that but I guess it's just another challenge in life.

I go out alone sometime and do the things I want to do. It's hard at the beginning but people will approach you when you are alone. They will not see you as a threat. It shows confidence and just don't think about what other people will think, because nobody cares about you or forgot about you the next day anyway. Just show them you are a good person. Don't judge people because in the end most of us have our own troubles in life. If they ask why you are alone just say something like you lost your friend or something.

I tend to focus on people now that are receptive to me and approach me positively. Even if they are not your best friend or like 5+ years younger you can still hang out with them and widen your network of people through them.

Also with women I am going for the younger ones like 18-25. I think the older ones want to settle to quick and have kids too soon. I have created this rule for myself that if they don't respond to me positively or try to play games they are not good for a LTR or any friendship and a waste of time. Friendship with women is AFC a lot of people will say yes, however if you can connect with some, build trust, they will give you a lot of emotional feedback after you have challenged them a bit for her personality, with HB6.5 or higher. It's more fun that way for me to be honest. And just take her out like a friend, you will meet more people with her around. If she has a boyfriend just show her that you are a better spiritual person and work for it. You will attract more people that way.

I took a hard look at myself and I have other areas (education, financial, work etc) that I have to work on aswell, the road is hard and long but I never stop dreaming about a better life.

 

[Jamo]

Die Hard:

Your question does not demand my answering. I DO know the origin of these feelings, I just dont feel the need to get into great detail on the forums and get a differential diagnosis I dont really need. I appreciate your advice, but your writing tells me you are not speaking from personal experience when it comes to depression. Telling someone to just persevere is missing the point. Of course low points will pass, but unless it's just an isolated sad spell, it is going to return with certain triggers and conditions until the underlying root is dealt with. That is what I was getting at in my subsequent posts. I dont need to spill all my personal beans here, I was just looking for some support, which was graciously given. Thanks again to all.

Actually it is all about perseverance (positive thinking) - nothing more and nothing less. I had been severely depressed for almost 2 years, so I do speak from experience. The good always comes with the bad, as it a cycle like all things in nature. Once you understand and accept this you will "enjoy" the bad moments by always looking at the positive side of things, because with the bad, the good will eventually follow. If you look at my earlier post about that course you may learn what this actually means in practice.

 

[Jeffst1980]

Hey Colossus- thanks for injecting some real life into the forum. You've always been one of the more grounded posters here, and it's refreshing to hear someone get honest like this. I think this stuff is something that gets glossed over in a self improvement forum--primarily because it isn't "cheerleading." But, I'd imagine EVERYONE feels this way from time to time.

I know that, for me personally, experiencing a few rejections in a row still affects my state pretty badly--ESPECIALLY if it's a girl I thought was "beneath" me. Ego is a mindfvck. When I'm in a crappy state, I tend to play it "safe" and take less risks; unfortunately, you NEED to take risks in order to make things happen.

EVERYONE get rejected--it doesn't matter WHO you are. I know I have a tendency to place the blame on myself, or at least my "game," but it's not as simple as HIGH VALUE CHARACTERISTICS-> ATTRACTION. The frustrating thing is that you can be fit, well-dressed, intelligent, and successful --and STILL get rejected- even by a girl lacking in these areas! Or, ESPECIALLY by a girl lacking these areas.

At the same time, I have learned that attraction seems to happen naturally when I meet a girl that is HIGHLY attractive to me. When I attempt to "settle," I get rejected MUCH MORE. This is another difference between men and women, I think--if we perceive an HB9 or 10 is lowering her standards for us, we're cool with it; but, if a girl perceives that you are not really into her, or just going through the motions, she will NOT feel attraction to you- even if you are super high value. I think we assume that being the male equivalent of a "10" means that we can attract ALL women; instead, I think it just means that we can attract "10's" with ease. If you're dipping into 6's, a lot of them will question your motives; girls are pretty intuitive.

Perhaps the problem is that you're not aiming HIGH enough, Colossus. I think that anyone with an AFC past still sees the AFC in the mirror quite a bit--it's impossible to forget those days. But, knowing as we do that most men are clueless when it comes to women, I think it's safe to say that we are best equipped to date the highly attractive ones. You very well may be experiencing failure on these dates because you've built TOO MUCH value for yourself--women that aren't highly confident or highly attractive usually feel more comfortable dating someone at their "level." I know this sounds like feel-good nonsense, but I really have observed this.

But aside from all that, remember that these rejections are MEANINGLESS- even if they won't SEEM so until you find a new girl. You are doing EVERYTHING right; don't let some silly girls throw you off course. But yeah, I feel you on all this--when I have an empty "rotation," I don't think of all the times I've had the midas touch with women; I just feel like I've somehow become an anti-DJ overnight. I don't think this need for validation ever goes away (kind of like approach anxiety), so the best we can do is learn to live with it.

 

[Colossus]

Thanks for your thoughts Jeff, I always appreciate your take on things.

Funny you mention it, because I have thought a lot lately on how I may have been 'undershooting' things with women. I guess I had sort of a mini-epiphany recently where I realized the only rate-limiting step in my ability to pull high caliber women is my own confidence. I had been deceiving myself that it wasnt that simple, because after getting ignored or bombing out for the 100th time (often with 5's and 6's) I was seriously questioning my own value. But sometimes time lends the best perspective. In the deepest rut it's too hard to see beyond what you're stuck in. Nobody has ego-immunity. A serial string of rejections will eventually make anyone question themselves.

I think it has served me better already just having changed my BELIEF in what I can pull----because that's half the battle.


And Guru, thanks for your perspective as well.

 

[TheTraveller]

Colossus,

You've helped me out in the past on sosuave, and I've really enjoyed your posts.

First, kudos for starting this thread. This stuff can be difficult to talk about even with your best buds, so using this forum is a great means to discuss.

I too have suffered bouts of depression which is really a manifestation of my general anxiety. From reading some of these excellent posts in this thread and your views, it seems like you're taking a great approach. Good for you about seeking professional help about past issues. Yes, they're in the past, but they affect who you are today. Continue to sort that out, as I do and am directly seeing a benefit *today*.

My view on this, apart from what has been mentioned previously in the thread and repeating ad-nauseam, is two-fold:

1. Be careful with labels
You are who you are. Today may be depressed, tomorrow may be impulsive. You are Colossus. Be your best, and do not let "depression" define you. It is not you.

2. Don't make everything about yourself; Live for today
Everything is not stacked up against you. Enjoy the moment, do your best, have fun and learn. Live life as best you can and look forward to today.

You can take this as new-age BS or not. That's up to you. I've recently (and this is a SLOW process) decided to take control of my GAD non-medically, which involves changing a lot of thought patterns. It started with all the advice I've seen in this thread, and, very importantly, the two points mentioned above.

Do stay well, buddy. We understand and are all ears.