Cure's 6 month strength building plan. Advice and comments sought.

[Cure]

Hello all.
Ive been dabbling with the gym on and off for the past year or so and have made some improments, cut down a bit of fat and put on about 10lb of muscle.
In the time Ive done a lot of research and experimentation to find out what works for me.
This is my new routine which I plan to follow for 6 months. measuring my progress. Its based loosely on the StrongLifts5x5 program.

Diet- miminal crappy food, lots of meat, fish, fruit and veg, healthy carbs. not perfect but pretty healty.

The weights.

Every 48 hours, I do the following.

5x5 Squat.

3x5 Deadlift
5x5 Bench Press
5x5 Overhead Press
5x5 Barbell Row
5xF Pull ups/Chin ups (alternating)

Its a 48 hour rest, but I plan on skipping one exercise each workout, so every couple of weeks each body part gets an extended rest.
Im planning on increaseing the weight by 1% each session (or as close as practical) Using the Stronglifts method of gradual improvment.

This means that in 6 months time, after approximatly 90 workouts. I should improve all my stats by a factor of 2.44 (thanks to compound increase)
For example I should increase Squat and Deadlift from 60kg to 140 kg, and Bench from 40 to approx 95.



questions for experianced weight lifters.

I want to gain weight, Im currently just under 150lb/67kg. which is way to low for a 5'10" guy. Im aiming for just shy of 80kg.
Is this a reasonable aim?

Are my strenght gain goals realistic? an almost 150% increase in strenght over 6 months seems possible on paper, but a tad unrealistic?

How can I ensure I eat enough? as this is the reason I was always skinny in the past, Ive got a naturally high metabolism and burn calories very easily. I am thinking of trying a reduced version of GOMAD, drinking 1-2 litres of milk a day extra in addition to my food. As well as trying to have a greater number of smaller meals.

are there any specific variations or changes ups/additions to my addmitedly simple routine that would be beneficial?

Cheers guys, I will keep a log here every months updating on my progress! wish me luck

Cure.

 

[Quagmire911]

To be honest I would use something like:

http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20480

http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8050

You could also use Rippetoe for a while until your numbers were up, but you can't squat 3x a week forever, unless moderating intensity.

Rippetoe already pushes it for some in regards to recovery. What Stronglifts did was add a bit more volume and put a new face on it. It pushes it for more people.

You've taken stronglifts and added to it again, to a level that would be pointless for many. These routines are meant for beginners and to get them stronger, fast. But you can't do too much and cripple your recovery. More isn't neccasarily better.

As a beginner, you have no buisness making up a routine and throwing a ton of volume in. You need to stick to what has been tried and tested. Ironaddicts.com is one of the best sites on the web for weight lifting info, you'd do well to use it.

Now as far as your questions:

Going from 150lbs to 175-180lbs is a good goal, I did that myself in the first year or so of training. If you're happy once your there you can stick with it, or you can keep increasing.

You can't put an exact number on how much your strength will go up. Way too many variables. If you have great genetics and do everything perfectly, you could get much, much stronger and bigger. Most people will increase strength to a good degree, with a large portion in the first few months especially.

Your deadlift should go up the most, then the squat, then the bench.

As far as eating enough. A sure fire way of gaining weight is to eat six meals a day, and to get as close to 2g of protein for every pound of bw. That is 300g a day for you. That may sound insane, but its what I did and my weight went up fast. It is what many advocate. Certainly you should try to get at least 1.5g per pound or 225g. Then if you aren't gaining and you are getting 300g of protein, add in some calories from fat or carbs. Generally a good idea to add fat first.

See routine advice above. Good luck,

Quagmire

 

[Cure]

thanks a lot for the quick feedback guys, much appreciated.

Ive done an hour or so reading the ironaddicts website and based on that and your advice, combined with the fact that there is no way in hell my delts or lats are ready for tommorows planned weight session.

So, im gonna swallow my ego and follow Rippetoes Starting Strength program to the letter for a while.

WORKOUT A:
SQUATS 3X5
BENCH PRESS 3X5
DEADLIFT 1X5

WORKOUT B:
SQUATS 3X5
STANDING MILITARY PRESS 3X5
ROW 3X5

It seems to me that there are hardly any reps at all. the chest for example only gets 15 reps every 4 days. seems like nothing, does this mean I should lift as heavy as I can for those 3 sets? ie almost to failure? For example if I am currently doing 40kg for 5x5 relativly easily, should I try 45 or even 50 for 3x5?

On the diet front, Im pretty pleased with myself, caculated my 4th and final meal of today at 60g of protein including a shake. Just gotta turn 4 meals+snacks into 6 meals proper.

thanks guys, Ill start with workout A tommorow and get an update up in a few days.

 

[Quagmire911]

Go heavy, yes. But stop 1-2 reps short of failure.

The overhead press in workout B will aid the bench press.

Kerpal may not like my saying, but if you want more volume choose one of the links in my first post.

Just pick something that has been proven to work. Don't add to it, or mess it up. If you're one of these guys that wants to add stuff here and there, pick one of the other ones with a bit more volume if it will keep you happy.

The whole point of the assistance work is just that, to assist. You would be very surprised at how little you need to do to get stronger. The assistance work is only an aid. The main focus should be on the big compound exercises.

 

[Cure]

Thanks for further comments guys.

Kerpal, I would get the book, but the thing is im about to begin life as a nomad, so all my existing books are going in my parents attic, along with my laptop and 75% of my possessions.

Quagmire, Upping the weight worked, see below



Starting Strength Day 1. workout A.

Squats

5xbar
5x50kg

5x70kg
5x70kg
5x70kg

Bench Press

5x30

5x45
5x45
5x45

DeadLift

3x60
5x70

some Ab work to finnish, but not a lot.

Overview.
Seemed like a really short workout, BUT that said I still feel like ive done pleanty of work given ive done less than half the number of sets and reps im used to. stacking on the weight worked well and all the sets today were a great deal more challenging that previously.

Squats.
Did them lower than I am use to, down to 1/4" above the safty bars, which felt good, no knee pain, which is somthing Ive suffered in the past occasionally, so thats a positive sign.
It took a second or two longer than usual to get the bar up. I think this is good, a combination of a slightly higher weight than Im used to, and going down to the correct height with correct form.

Bench.
Felt good, 45kg is a new PR. even if it was only 3x5. No issues here.

Deadlift.
Again, very pleased, today I started doing them properly. Previously my gym guy said to do each set taking the bar to just below the knee, rather than to the floor. Im now lifting from "dead" each time and it feels a lot better. I've finally sorted out my form, no lower back pain what so ever! and I feel like Ive got more lifting potential in me. So i will add several kilos a week to this lift and see how it goes, good form allowing.

I intend to stick to the program to the letter for a couple of weeks atleast and see how I feel.

Current body weight acording to electronic scales - 67.5kg.

Diet- currently eating 3rd meal of the day, so far Ive had quark, whole milk and fruit and fibre for breakfast, then two fried eggs a pork chop and some lettuce and bread. Now im eating tuna and cheese sandwhichs. I think Im gradually getting the hang of multiple small meals, will keep an approximate log of my diet on here.

Cure.

 

[Quagmire911]

Good stuff, weight is king.

If you're wanting to gain weight bugger multiple small meals. Multiple big meals is what you need.

 

[EFFORT]

post up your diet

 

[Cure]

Bah!! Im so sick of being a skinny weakling! and I'm kicking my self for not starting to eat and lift properly years ago!

but no point wallowing in self loathing when I can turn it into disciplined focus and maximum progress. I WILL attain my aims. with weight lifting theres no approach anxiety to stop me :trouble:

On diet and eating.

The last few days Ive made a concious effort to eat more meals, and generally pack away as much food as is physically possible.

However, I am finding it really quite difficult. I am used to eating a big breakfast, a sandwich and fruit for lunch, and a big main meal. My diet up untill recently has been a fair ammount of carbs and fruit/veg, but with only one, maby two proper sources of protien a day.

Ive had trouble adapting to eating more frequently and more. I presume that If I persevere, my body will adapt and I will be able to eat and digest more each day?

Quagmire, I know I should be eating multiple big meals, Its what Im aiming to do. Im eating as much as I can!


my food so far today, to give an example.

bowl of fruit and fiber cereal with 200ml whole milk and a table spoon of quark mixed in. (I estimate approx 500 calories in this)

banana, and more milk to drink.
two pork chops, a fried egg (was going to have two but ran out), and a whole can of chopped tomatoes.

can of tuna, mixed with grated cheese some salsa sauce I had lying around.
More milk to drink.

two peices of whole grain toast with 100g of cheese (mostly quark) spread on. Another Banana.

Ive finnished a 2.2 litre bottle of whole milk in less than two days, and will aim to maintain this consumption rate.

tonight Im going to cook up a load of chicken and beef and vegetables and spread it over a few days. plus my protein shake.

is this a reasonable kind of food to be eating? Im trying to get as much down me as possible.

thanks for the feed back guys, Ill update tommorow with day two of the starting strenght routine. cheers.

 

[EFFORT]

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=134782

 

[Cure]

EFFORT, thanks for the link, I had seen the thread, the shakes, beef/veg and tuna I can manage. raw egg I cant touch. Id like to be able to, Ive read that they are good. but I tend to wretch when I eat a fried egg with a thin layer on top thats not cooked properly, merly thinking about eating a raw egg makes me want to vomit. I may at some point try one mixed into a shake but not for a while.

My diet today was absolutly dreadfull and Im about ot go clubbing so its about to get worse I fear, Ill go easy on the alcohol, Im trying to cut down on that.
In my defense I hada whole day interview thing today and forgot to take my lunch, hence my lack of proper eating.

on to..

DAY 2 - Starting Strength.

Military press

5x20

5x30
5x30
5x30

These were difficult, but 30kg is 5kg more than my previous best so Im happy I got through all 3 sets. The press is one of my lifts most in need of improvement.

Barbell row

5x30

5x40
5x40
5x40

These felt good, within my lifting capacity and no back issues at all. Good form right up untill last two lifts of last set when it suffered a bit.

Squats

Had some knee pain today, but quickly realised that there was no difference in pain when I squatted down and when i didnt. In fact, walking down stairs hurts, but squatting 70kg doesnt atll.

5xbar
5x50kg

5x70kg
5x70kg
5x70kg

Same weight as last time, I was taking it easy on the knees, but my form was good and proper and these sets were hard. I will try for 80kg in a weeks time I think.


On a side note, saw a chick with a really nice toned body, maby a 7.5, definatly doable. Damned approch anxiety. why is it my body has no problem lifting an aggregate 2.1 metric tonnes of metal in 45minutes, but cant walk up and talk to a girl.. argh!!!!!


Bring on Saturday.

Cure.

 

[Cure]

Update time.

Diet-
Still going well I think, but room for improvement.
Ive started drinking 4 pints of milk a day now, which Im going to keep up. 4 pints of milk is 1400 calories, 70 grams protein, and a whole load more goodness. I will need to get some cardio in to burn the fat off!

Exercise

Sunday (was meant to be saturday but had family commitment)
Day A again.
Squats went fine but felt ALOT harder than the previous week, not sure why, may have been running low on energy. I failed the last rep of the last set.

I think its better to fail a rep than to let my form suffer? is this correct thinking?

Press was good again, 45kg still, and felt easier than the previous time. 50kg doesn't seem to far off.

Dead lift, my major achievement. New personal record of 5x80kg.
Not an impressive number, but adds 10kg on, and means I have doubled the weight of 40kg I started with a few months back.
These dead lifts were HARD, probably how they should be. Required every once of strength I had and I couldn't have done any more.

Monday- Day B.
No squats- Cant do the same exercise on consecutive days, and wanted to give my knees a break.
Shoulder press and row were both same weight as last time.

I also Cycled 22 miles today, my first major bike ride in a long time. I managed it in 2 hours 10 minutes, Which I think I can improve on quite a lot. My legs were seriously starting to cramp up in the last 30 mins, which shows the need for regular training.

Another update at the end of the week I hope, got weights days on Wednesday and Friday now.

Cure

 

[Quagmire911]

Keep the same weight on the squat for next time and aim to get all the reps.

Deadlifts are hard, but if they take everything you have keep the weight the same until you think you should move it up. Slow and steady wins the race.

Be careful with the amount of cycling, its good that your doing something, but I would keep it under an hour. If you do too much it will impede your ability to gain weight and strength.

Let's see how you get on over the next week or two. If everything is feeling heavy still then you may not be suited for the 3x a week squats, which is fine. Early days though.

Keep it up.

 

[Cure]

thanks Quagmire.
Im aware that 22 miles is excessive, I should have clarified. That just happens to be the distance between where I live in London and my parents home. I decided it would be nice to cycle for once. Im on a fairly minimal cardio routine at the moment. Basically none unless Im cycling to get somewhere. Im purly focusing on bulking up at the moment.

Wednesday 19th.

Squats - No problems, all reps completed with good form.
warmup,
3x5x70kg

Bench- new best of 3x5x47.5kg. Was pleased with myself.

Deadlift- 80kg again, still very difficult, but I felt more in control. From now on I will increase the weight in increments of 5kg, as 10kg in one go was excessive.

Friday 21st.
Squats. All completed with good form at 70kg.
5
5
7 - this set I pushed it slightly. On monday I think I will be able to lift 75kg.

Press- all sets completed, same weight of 30kg.
Rows- all sets completed, same weight of 40kg.


Diet-
Still drinking my 4 pints of whole milk. and generally trying to get as much food down me as possible. had half a kilo of chicken yesterday.
I need to u my fruit and veg intake. and find more varied sources of protien.


Questions-

on Shoulder Press Ive been lifting from the mid chest, but have a twinge of pain in the front left delt at the very beginning of the lift. I tried lifting from the top of the chest and the pain went away, should I lift like this from now on? Or perhaps skip the next lot of shoulder presses to give the muscle a chance to recover?

cheers guys. Im going to weigh myself again next friday.

Cure

 

[Quagmire911]

I know some guys only go to chin level on the press, I don't have any problems going all the way though. Could just be a slight strain, or maybe it would be better for you just to go to chin level. Use your head, try both ways a bit and see what you think is best.

You should be doing some cardio, even if you are gaining. 2-3 times a week for 20-30 minutes at a moderate intensity is a good base.

 

[Cure]

hey guys, update time.

Ill buy the book soon.
Quagmire, Im doing a fair ammount of cardio already, Cycling a few miles every day at fairly fast pace. I also do Yoga and Pilates, and plan on adding swimming, and dance classes of all kinds come september. Nothing to serious, but enough to keep me in shape.

This weeks workouts so far-

Monday.

squat - went well, tried it with a bit more weight and without heel supports or full grip. felt better.

Warmup,
75x5
75x5
75x5

Deadlift - again, went well, Im happy with my form but need to keep an eye on it to maintain it as the weight goes up. Will try for 85kg on friday.

3x60
5x80

Bench Press.

30x5
50x5
47.5x5
47.5x5

Tried slightly more weight, I could manage it but It wasnt feasible for all 3 sets. These sets were good, Felt like I was lifting as close to the maximum as possible, and form is improving.


Wednesday

Squats -
Big shake up today, I removed the safty bars, allowing me to go down a little further. The instructor told me I only needed to go slightly past parrallel.
I also noticed my technique is a little off, Ive been raising my hips 3-4 inches before my shoulders start to rise on the mroe difficult reps, which Is a bad habit I need to remove.
The combination of correcting form and going lower meant I only used 60kg today, but it still felt really challenging. I will move back up to the original weight with correct form and depth.

Shoulder press-
No shoulder pain today, I used 30kg again, but with the olympic bar instead of a fixed weight barbell. It felt more challenging to balance, I will continue to use the proper bar in future.

Rows-
I need to do more research on the technique with these I think, as i find the movment somwhat confusing still.

Warmup
5x45
5x45
5x45

Weigh in and more deadlifts friday! the diet is still going really well, Im pleased with my progress.

Yesterday while cycling, I noticed a pair of jeans I havent worn in a few weeks was newly and noticibly tight around my thighs, no spare fabric at all, so evidently Im making some progress

Cure.

 

[Cure]

Update time.

Im pleased to say the Milk and Starting Strenght combo is working rather marvelously.
I weighed in today at 69.4kg. Almost 2kg of muscle in two and a half weeks. hooray!

Todays workout-

Squats - with good form again but still lighter.

65x5
65x5
65x5

Deadlift- felt good and strong till with extra weight, last rep was slightly poor form.

3x60
5x85

Bench

5x30
5x50
5x47.5
5x47.5

I can nearly manage 50! but realistically I need to be less keen and accept slightly slower improvment.

Im going on holiday today and aside from one day back Ill be away now untill the 7th september. So I shall be eating as much as possible to keep the weight on, and doing body weight exercises like push ups, pull ups, tricep dips etc etc.

Really looking forward to getting back on the program.

cheers guys.

Cure.

 

[Cure]

Heya guys, update time.
Owing to mentioned holidays (which were great!). Ive only managed A B A B since the 28th, but I still want to keep the log up to date.

Diet-
Has been pretty dreadful. Basically consistency, quantity and quality of my food have all suffered in the last couple of weeks. Im going to fix this asap, starting tommorow.

Weight-
70.2, Ive got past the 70kg mark, but the gain is fat, I can feel slightly more round my middle. I think I need to gain a bit of fat though as I was very skinny before so Im not worried. I am planning on upping the cardio a bit though to keep in shape.

Weights-

Squat- Im up to 70kg again, using correct form and proper depth.

Deadlift- 85kg still, will try for 90kg some time in the next week.

Bench- 47.5kg still, and struggling a little. I will update with how it goes tommorow.

Rows- 45kg. my back muscles could manage 50kg or more but my lower back cant support me perfectly in the correct posture. I will stay at what ever weight I can safely lift.

Overhead Press- Shoulder pain is gone, lifting from the middle chest. 32.5kg currently.

The book - Ive ordered it, will arrive in a week or two, Along with "strength training anatomy" for general infomation.

Overall-

Im going to keep up with the routine and diet for a few weeks while I sort some life stuff out and wait for the book. When the book arrives Im going to nail my diet perfectly, make my form perfect and make as much progress as possible in the next 5 months!

cheers guys.

 

[Cure]

afternoon all.

Been a while since my last update but Ive been sticking to the routine just about!
Kerpal the book arrived a few days ago, thanks so much for bullying me into getting it! best money Ive spent in a long long time. Its brilliant, and more importantly Ive actually read most of it and will read it again.

So far Ive done one workout day A with the advice from the book, which was-

Squats-
Agonising, no problems at all with the slightly altered form, although I still need to practice and keep and eye on it. I did a selection of warmup sets, working up to about 60kg. the main thing I was experimenting with was the grip Rippetoe recommends, with the bar positioned lower on my back, rather than resting on my collar bones. It was agony! my elbows and arms are not designed to bend like that! Having said that the mechanics of the exercise felt better. I presume that over a few weeks my muscles in my arms/shoulders/back will stretch to make the new grip more comfortable?

Bench- followed Rippetoes advice to the letter. My form was already pretty good but Ive made a few minor alterations to my grip and starting position.
5xbar
5xbar
5x30
3x40

5x50
5x50
5x50

The work sets were difficult but i had more in the tank, I think I will see good progress on this lift now.

Deadlift-
Warmed up gradually to a work set of 5x90kg. Which I was happy with. Again, only minor form alterations.


Today I practiced the form for the power cleans (part of tommorows B workout) It was a really strange movement, the Catch grip in particular felt odd and I will clearly have to get used to it.
Luckily my gym has training plates so Im going to keep the weight at the lightest possible set up for a few weeks, till the form is learned properly.


General questions-

The Cleans which are replacing the Rows leave muscle groups in my back unworked directly by any exercise. i know squats and deadlifts provide isometric work for the entire back but it seems strange to remove the rows completly. My lats in particular, have nothing to do in this workout, which is presumably why people add in pull ups? Is this somthing I should do?

Rippetoe suggests most guys can add anything up to 10lb per workout to their squat, this hasnt been the case for me, and seems rather unrealistic? Is it sensible to try and add 5lb per workout for as long as I can? As I think this is doable for a few weeks, certainly on the squat and dead.

thanks guys, will update again at the end of the week. cheers

 

[Cure]

This weeks update.

Hey guys,

The program is still going well overall, Although I weighed in today and havn't seen any increasing since last week, I put this down to my lack of calorie intake, Ive really been struggling to eat enough and of the right kinds of foods now I dont have a fridge or cooker.
Im going to buy a camping gas stove, this allow me to sort my diet out better, adding in beef mince again for example, and boiled eggs.

workouts wise-

Squats-
real problems here. Ive adapted to the new grip fine, I can now use the low bar position without pain, but my lifting capacity is utterly shot. Today I only did 60kg for my work sets (though this was following circuit training) and a few days ago I tried 75kg and only managed 3 of the reps in the final set.
Ive been warming up properly and stretching but I just dont seem to be able to make progress.
I will try again next week, sort out my mental issues and try and push through to be able to lift 75x5x3 with proper form. I think part of the issue is not holding my lower back tight enough, so I will address this on monday. My trainer also reccomended alternating back and front squats some of the time and I intend to take his advice.
I think I will do front squats on wednesday, as the lighter weight used will allow my legs slightly easier recovery.

Deadlift-
This lift is going great. 95kg with more in the tank last time, form is pretty much spot on (had one of the trainers at the gym who knows what he's talking about check) and Im going to go for 100kg on monday.

Bench-
again, going great, Im going to move to 52.5kg next time, gunning for 60kg at the moment.

Press-
Also good. Form is better now Im getting under the bar properly. I lifted 35kg today.

Cleans-
Relativly happy with my progress. I cleaned sets of 40kg today. The weight wasnt difficult but Im still getting the technique down properly at the moment. Its still an unnatural movment for me.

Pull ups- Ive added these in. Im rubbish! i can only do max 4 pull ups in a row, somthing I need to improve. I experimented with adding in a calf bounce to help me up, which allows me to do a lot more and helps work the legs a bit, So I may do pull ups till failure then assisted pull ups till failure.


In addition to the weights, My gyms new program is out, Im planning on doing the following in addition to weights-

yoga, pilates, street dance, salsa dance, speed and agility circuits, swimming once a week.
I also may try another cardio curcuits class if Im feeling up to it. Ill see.

Doing so much exercise is goign to require eating like a horse! and Im hungry now so ill sign off and go eat!

Cure

 

[Cure]

Hey guys, Havent updated in a while, computer access has been sketchy.

Generally my Program is going ok.
Ive had some serious problems eating enough calories and enough protein. In the last two weeks Ive not gained any noticable weight at all, despite most of my lifts going up.

Im taking steps to remedy this by upping my milk intake to 6 pints per day. which is approximatly 2000 calories and 100g protein. On top of that Im thinkin a whole chicken every other day, with beans, tuna/similar fish, and lots of fruit and veg and some carbs should provide addequate nutrition.
I plan to overload on calories this week to hopefully kickstart weight gain again and sort my squat out.


Squats-
Still a massive issue. I just dont seem to be able to put weight on the bar.
I know Im suposed to "stick to the program" but how long do I struggle before I consider changing my leg workout around abit?
I intend to persever for a few more weeks, forcing lots of food down and just endure the pain of heavier squats. Im happy enough with my form at the moment, just the weight thats an issue, as squats are meant to form the backbone of Rippetoes Program.

Deadlift-
Going well. currently on 100kg, Im going to up it by 2.5kg per session from now on, Assuming I feel sufficiently strong. Smaller more frequent increases will hopefully work even better than occasional 10/5kg increases have.

Bench- also absolutly fine. 52.5kg still, but Im going to up it to 55 on wednesday.

Press- still great. Ive sorted technique out properly now and am making consistent improvments. Im going to go for 37.5 next session.

Clean- movment still a little strange, need to check the book again, but currently cleaning 50kg quite nicly. I wont increase it for a while.

Pull ups- still stuck on 4 max. grr!


I skipped squats today, just did some light technique work with the front squats.
I think part of the issue may be that Im not holding my lower back sufficiently straight. Wednesday Im going to go back to heavy squats, make sure my form is spot on, and just suffer through the work sets, taking breaks/breaths between each rep as needed.

Cheers

Cure.