Could use some feedback, please

[Sturmblitz]

Hey guys! Obviously, I'm new here. I'll say I am fairly inexperienced with women... I'm 18 and I've only had one girlfriend for about two months, and she's the only girl I've ever kissed or done anything with, really. That being said, I'm happy, confident, fit, and I'm not coming here desperate for help like "omg how come no girl likes me?"

I don't know how familiar any of you all are with ladder theory and the ladder theory forums over at http://iwforums.com/index.php, but that's where I've come from. I'm sure that all of the concepts covered there are just about the same here, but maybe all the acronyms aren't the same or common knowledge? I happened to find ladder theory before I found this site, and there is some bug on their site that won't allow me to register to their forums. I've read just about all of the articles on the actual ladder theory site: http://ladderwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page
I've read several of them more than once, and I'd say I have a good grasp of the material. So, I'm saying this not to advertise their site, but just so you guys can know where I'm coming from.

Ok, so anyways, I graduated high school this year and right now I'm at a summer research program for honors students attending my college next year. There are about 35 students total doing this, and I'd say theres only 1 girl that I'd really like to get with (I'd say she's a 7 or 7.5 tops)... So the pickings are fairly slim. Problem is, another guy has similar intentions, and before I really could do anything, the bastard latched onto her and won't let go. To elaborate: Ok, so yesterday, first time I saw her, I talked with her a bit, you know, made her laugh and stuff, and then moved on and just started talking to other people. Like, you know, I'm cool, aloof; I'm not starving for her attention, she isn't the most interesting person here, etc. etc. I don't think this is a mistake here, but perhaps I did. I may not have been clear enough in establishing myself as a sexual person, and may have been unintentionally placed in the friend zone, but we've been here for less than two days, so it shouldn't be too hard to reverse.

Ok, so the real problem here is that before I had any opportunity to talk to her again or do anything, this other guy latches onto her. He's talkin to her and in less than five minutes i hear him asking her about boyfriends and **** like that (this isn't a too smart move, is it?). So we take a tour around campus, and he is latching on to her side, they kinda wait back and walk at the rear of our group and are talkin the whole time. He knows what he's doing; he's brushing up against her, playing / flirting with her with his football (why is he carrying his football with him), etc., and its working. He's a pretty big guy... I wouldn't say very attractive (as a guy I'm not too great of a judge), but tall, pretty stocky. Not diesel, but well built; he's a football player.

So it's only been one day really, but he's working fast, and I've not seen either of them at all if they're not together. Last night, we watched a movie in his and his roommates room, and him and her shared a blanket, although it looked like she was a little reluctant, because it didnt look like they were touching or anything . This morning, he kind of AMOG'd me without me even realizing it (I'm doubt he did it purposely). Later today, the rest of the group and I went and had fun at a lake, while he and her went out to some town 30 miles away.

So... What do I do? Part of me thinks I shouldn't do anything, because this is a small group and attempting to get with her when everybody already knows something is going on between the two of them would probably cause a lot of nasty drama. The other part of me doesn't want to admit defeat to this guy, although I haven't put up a fight at all really; I don't think he even percieves me as a threat. What do you guys think?

Thanks in advance

 

[badboyjmm]

The other guy is winning the sweepstakes lol... Since you've been put in the friendzone and there's a competition for her affection, keep in mind that the guy you cares less has all the power (that's if the girl as the similar interest for you and the other guy)

So what's your next move ? In my opinion, you should bring this girl at the bottom of your ladder and get other girls to join the ladder. Two guys going for the same girl is always drama and sometimes, the girl just have some major ego boost for all the attention and you BOTH lose... So if you really wanna have that girl, you just have to be friendly, BUT removing the attention you used to give her.

If she has attraction for you, she will show it, but otherwise there's nothing to do then to move on and checkout some other ladies

 

[Sturmblitz]

Ah, thanks. I have to say I agree with you. The only reason I'm reluctant to throw her to the bottom of my ladder and go to other chicks is just because there really aren't any other girls I'm interested in here... So I can put her at the bottom, but theres nobody to replace. It's hard to say whether or not I've been friend zoned, as I certainly haven't shown any IW behavior; if anything, I've been too distant. It doesn't really matter, though. Bah, it's a little annoying to be outplayed, but the guys pretty cool and I hold no ill will to him. I guess the best thing I can do now is just keep my eyes open

 

[jophil28]

Ah, thanks. I have to say I agree with you. The only reason I'm reluctant to throw her to the bottom of my ladder and go to other chicks is just because there really aren't any other girls I'm interested in here... So I can put her at the bottom, but theres nobody to replace. It's hard to say whether or not I've been friend zoned, as I certainly haven't shown any IW behavior; if anything, I've been too distant. It doesn't really matter, though. Bah, it's a little annoying to be outplayed, but the guys pretty cool and I hold no ill will to him. I guess the best thing I can do now is just keep my eyes open

The worst thing you could do is try to 'outjock' him. He is moving at warp speed from the sound of it so let him use all his ammo . Never play a game of rivalry on the other guy's terms.
Your correct course to to stay aloof but friendly with her, mix in a LITTLE tease, and a slice of C&F and establish your self as the cool indifferent one. She needs to feel and see the contrast in your respective styles as you slowly "dial her up".
Patience..

 

[DonJuan11]

Hey guys! Obviously, I'm new here. I'll say I am fairly inexperienced with women... I'm 18 and I've only had one girlfriend for about two months, and she's the only girl I've ever kissed or done anything with, really. That being said, I'm happy, confident, fit, and I'm not coming here desperate for help like "omg how come no girl likes me?"

Ok, so anyways, I graduated high school this year and right now I'm at a summer research program for honors students attending my college next year. There are about 35 students total doing this, and I'd say theres only 1 girl that I'd really like to get with (I'd say she's a 7 or 7.5 tops)... So the pickings are fairly slim. Problem is, another guy has similar intentions, and before I really could do anything, the bastard latched onto her and won't let go.

No, the "bastard" was smarter than you because he saw his opportunity with her and grabbed it. You waited too long to make your move and now you are upset with him since he beat you to the punch.


To elaborate: Ok, so yesterday, first time I saw her, I talked with her a bit, you know, made her laugh and stuff, and then moved on and just started talking to other people. Like, you know, I'm cool, aloof; I'm not starving for her attention, she isn't the most interesting person here, etc. etc.

Being "cool" and "aloof" will not get you the girl. You have to ask her out right away, in less than 5 minutes you should have her number and a date planned. You have to pretend you are her boyfriend right away, protect her, want to have sex with her, etc. Focus on the girl and then focus on your studies.


I don't think this is a mistake here, but perhaps I did. I may not have been clear enough in establishing myself as a sexual person, and may have been unintentionally placed in the friend zone, but we've been here for less than two days, so it shouldn't be too hard to reverse.

It will be hard to reverse.

Ok, so the real problem here is that before I had any opportunity to talk to her again or do anything, this other guy latches onto her. He's talkin to her and in less than five minutes i hear him asking her about boyfriends and **** like that (this isn't a too smart move, is it?). So we take a tour around campus, and he is latching on to her side, they kinda wait back and walk at the rear of our group and are talkin the whole time. He knows what he's doing; he's brushing up against her, playing / flirting with her with his football (why is he carrying his football with him), etc., and its working.

It was called above.

He's a pretty big guy... I wouldn't say very attractive (as a guy I'm not too great of a judge), but tall, pretty stocky. Not diesel, but well built; he's a football player.

So it's only been one day really, but he's working fast, and I've not seen either of them at all if they're not together. Last night, we watched a movie in his and his roommates room, and him and her shared a blanket, although it looked like she was a little reluctant, because it didnt look like they were touching or anything . This morning, he kind of AMOG'd me without me even realizing it (I'm doubt he did it purposely). Later today, the rest of the group and I went and had fun at a lake, while he and her went out to some town 30 miles away.

So... What do I do? Part of me thinks I shouldn't do anything, because this is a small group and attempting to get with her when everybody already knows something is going on between the two of them would probably cause a lot of nasty drama. The other part of me doesn't want to admit defeat to this guy, although I haven't put up a fight at all really; I don't think he even percieves me as a threat. What do you guys think?

Thanks in advance

I don't think a stocky, well built football player who got a girl latched on to him in less than 180 seconds perceives you as a threat either.

You concentrate on your studies and improve yourself.

 

[kingsam]

Social proof at Uni is everything

Concentrate on becoming the top guy in the group (or out of every one else in the group)
1 - You will have lots of friends when you start = head start to having even more friends, you get more popular quicker when college starts = more cool people you know = more women (down the line)
2 - if every one loves you, you will likely become higher than him in social hierarchy, especially if you have some of the next hottest girls in the group fighting for you, it will possibly arouse her interest, you also DHV the other guy... though lot kinda depend what happens with the other guy and how much he manages...if he sees you as the most popular guy he will prob want to be friends with you... you then have the power in this situation

You also shouldn’t really do this just to get this chick, it's ONLY a CHICK, rather do it for the long term game (1st reason I gave)

it may be better to eventually become friends with this other guy rather than competing....if he is like a footballer he will prob know cool people later on at college, and know good parties
Also keep in mind you could easily have more opportunities later on when college starts to get with this chick .... so there’s kinds NO RUSH if you don’t get any action now...so don’t worry to much…she will also know other chicks you can hook up with…
---------------------------------------------------------
THINK LONG TERM GAME
and
At university social proof rules...

(damn this is a good post!)

 

[Sturmblitz]

Social proof at Uni is everything

Concentrate on becoming the top guy in the group (or out of every one else in the group)
1 - You will have lots of friends when you start = head start to having even more friends, you get more popular quicker when college starts = more cool people you know = more women (down the line)
2 - if every one loves you, you will likely become higher than him in social hierarchy, especially if you have some of the next hottest girls in the group fighting for you, it will possibly arouse her interest, you also DHV the other guy... though lot kinda depend what happens with the other guy and how much he manages...if he sees you as the most popular guy he will prob want to be friends with you... you then have the power in this situation

You also shouldn’t really do this just to get this chick, it's ONLY a CHICK, rather do it for the long term game (1st reason I gave)

it may be better to eventually become friends with this other guy rather than competing....if he is like a footballer he will prob know cool people later on at college, and know good parties
Also keep in mind you could easily have more opportunities later on when college starts to get with this chick .... so there’s kinds NO RUSH if you don’t get any action now...so don’t worry to much…she will also know other chicks you can hook up with…
---------------------------------------------------------
THINK LONG TERM GAME
and
At university social proof rules...

(damn this is a good post!)

I have to say I agree with all of you, and not just because I'm afraid of being contrary or anything. Again, since there aren't really any other girls I'd go for right now, I'm definitely just going to try to get everybody to like me. I get a good head start as for friend status, too, because, in addition to knowing these 40 people in my program, theres also atleast like 50 people I know from my hometown going to this college (the actual school year will start on august 15th). Honestly I kind of don't want to see / hangout with a good amount of people in that group from my town, but theres some good connections in there too.

You also shouldn’t really do this just to get this chick, it's ONLY a CHICK, rather do it for the long term game (1st reason I gave)

Totally agree with you. Like I said, she's a 7.5 at best. The best thing I can do with HER is somehow get out of the friend zone (if that's where I am... again, its so early and hard to tell) so that if I have any opportunities later in the year, I can take em. Again, though, she's just 1 chick, and I'm going to prioritize befriending the entire group above getting out of her friend-zone. Preparing myself to have the most opportunities once actual school starts is way more important.

I don't agree with this, though:

No, the "bastard" was smarter than you because he saw his opportunity with her and grabbed it. You waited too long to make your move and now you are upset with him since he beat you to the punch.

I guess since I said bastard it did make it seem like I was upset with him, but not really, just a little frustrated. The guy is pretty cool, he's likable and isn't a d!ck in any way. We're all after the same thing, I just missed my opportunity. And hey, it's all a learning experience

I don't think a stocky, well built football player who got a girl latched on to him in less than 180 seconds perceives you as a threat either.

You concentrate on your studies and improve yourself.

I'm not sure what kind of image of me you have painted in your head, but, contrary to my skills with women, my image is one of the few things I'm pretty confident in. I'm 5 ft 11" and weigh 150 lbs, so I'm fairly skinny, but i'm definitely not skin and bones and have some pretty well defined features. I realized three years ago that i needed to improve my image (and self-esteem) so I got on the weights, and I'd have to say its turned out well (not to pat myself on the back or anything ). So, if by improve yourself, you mean improve my game and dj skills, then certainly. I'll continue to go to them gym, workout, excercise, etc. but I don't think that needs to be my primary focus right now.

 

[Igetit!]

I'd say theres only 1 girl that I'd really like to get with (I'd say she's a 7 or 7.5 tops)... So the pickings are fairly slim. Problem is, another guy has similar intentions, and before I really could do anything, the bastard latched onto her and won't let go.

Looks to me like the "bastard" knew what he was doing.

He did what he did,and look where he is.
You did what you did,and look where you are.


So if you had to choose between sharing a blanket with this cutie and going out to some town to sight-see like this guy did,or posting about her on some anonymus forum like you're doing now,which situation would you choose?



Let's compare how you interacted with this girl versus how the "bastard" did. You....

I talked with her a bit, you know, made her laugh and stuff, and then moved on and just started talking to other people.

Whereas this other guy..

He's talkin to her and in less than five minutes i hear him asking her about boyfriends and **** like that (this isn't a too smart move, is it?).

So you "made her laugh and stuff" when she was with you,but the other guy just got down to business and asked her about her relationship status/if she had a boyfriend.



You were right:you didn't show your sexual side to her,whereas this other guy,he "in less than 5 minutes" was showing his interest by enquiring if she was taken or not.



You said you made her laugh. Well that may be true,but making her laugh and turning her on are two different things. The other guy put himself out there. He risked rejection while you played it safe with comedy and being funny.

So it's only been one day really, but he's working fast, and I've not seen either of them at all if they're not together.

Well the working fast in a day is cool,but if he spends too much time with her,it could start to backfire. Don't get too happy though because even if it does backfire on him,he's still better off than you because it would be reversable.


The friendzone is a one-way street to a dead end.

So... What do I do?

Honestly? Well I think you should get you a pad and pen and watch this guy so you can take some notes.


He HAS what you WANT. You BOTH started out EQUALLY,you BOTH started at the same starting line,but now he's miles ahead.


You called him a "bastard",but it's better to be the "bastard" who GOT THE GIRL than the "nice guy" who's pining over her from a distance playing the "I shoulda coulda woulda" game.

I don't think he even percieves me as a threat.

Of course not,why would he? You haven't done anything.

Forget the guy....the girl doesn't even know you like her.

Could she identify anything you said in your conversations with her and interpet it as you having interest?


You didn't put yourself out there. If there's no risk of rejection,then there's no chance of reward.




I don't know if you're in the friendzone or not,but is does seem that you started out in that direction from the getgo. And yes,I'll give you that if it's only been 2 days,then you can probably still make a u-turn before this thing gets too far gone,but because she seems to be preoccupied with this other guy,it'll be more difficult and challenging to do.



You'd been better off just showing your interest from the beginning.

 

[kingsam]

Damn I saw your other thread and missed the part on this one saying you were a virgin,
MY RESPONE WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT!

So... you are thinking you can 'compete' for a hot chick, with never having been successful - you are giving your self too much credit, and your lack of success now makes more sense

this Jock guy will likely have had experience with girls for 2+ years over you, he will have slept with a few girls probably and kissed lots more, its like an amateur sports player completing with a semi-professional player - i.e. you aint going to win!

Being a virgin you will likely give off detrimental subtle unconscious vibes and sub communications (DLV's) that the girls pick up on (especially the In-demand hot chicks)

you need to just get laid with some of the “ugly/average girls”, you can then work your way up to hotter girls as you get more experienced.
This is much better than only aiming at (hot) girls you are essentially out your league/abilities and never managing to get there…

 

[Sturmblitz]

Alright well I got your private message but since you posted on here I suppose I'll post my response as well:

Thanks for your concern haha. Although this situation has COMPLETELY turned around. The girl in question turned down the jock guy because he was too clingy, almost obsessive. And now he's kind of like the laughing stock of our whole group because we all know how hard he's trying to be the AMOG, but he's failing pretty badly and just making a jackass of himself.

And what i said about him not being threatened by me? Again, completely opposite now. That's why everyone is laughing at him, because it's so obvious how threatened he feels, mainly from me, but also from other guys in the group. We gave him the nickname beta because of how hard he wants to be alpha. (har har clever i know)

As for the girl, I haven't made a move yet and I've got no excuse other than I'm a puss. I don't think I'm in her friend zone though, and I've done some very basic kino but just haven't escalated (cuz I'm a puss, again). Since I'm new to all this, it'd be a lot easier if I could move in one on one, but we're always together in a group of atleast 6 or 7 people, so I guess that makes me feel a bit more insecure. I have no knowledge of her sexual experience.

I'd have to agree with you about going for girls out of my league. I really do hold my standards very high, and I'm sure I'd have a lot more experience if I held them a bit lower. I just always tell myself not to settle for less.

 

[ArcBound]

TBH you don't need any social hierarchy or proof in uni... I'm sure it helps like in any other aspect of life but from my experience and many others you don't need to worry about it pretty much at all. A reverse from high school if you will.

Also what you see is the tip, if he's already doing all these stuff with her and going alone with her to places they're probably fvcking or making out at the very least. I wouldn't worry myself over her.

 

[n00bPimp]

I'd have to agree with you about going for girls out of my league. I really do hold my standards very high, and I'm sure I'd have a lot more experience if I held them a bit lower. I just always tell myself not to settle for less.

I laugh everytime I hear a guy say this.
Would you hold off on buying a beat up toyota just because you 'think' you deserve a brand new Mercedez?
The real reason is this, your ego is so big that you dont want to hurt it by being rejected by someone you perceive as lower value. On the other hand, you're too scared to make a move on someone that would fit your standards. In other words, you are stuck in a life that will only lead you to get a prostitute or die a virgin.

 

[CarlitosWay]

Alright well I got your private message but since you posted on here I suppose I'll post my response as well:

Thanks for your concern haha. Although this situation has COMPLETELY turned around. The girl in question turned down the jock guy because he was too clingy, almost obsessive. And now he's kind of like the laughing stock of our whole group because we all know how hard he's trying to be the AMOG, but he's failing pretty badly and just making a jackass of himself.

And what i said about him not being threatened by me? Again, completely opposite now. That's why everyone is laughing at him, because it's so obvious how threatened he feels, mainly from me, but also from other guys in the group. We gave him the nickname beta because of how hard he wants to be alpha. (har har clever i know)

As for the girl, I haven't made a move yet and I've got no excuse other than I'm a puss. I don't think I'm in her friend zone though, and I've done some very basic kino but just haven't escalated (cuz I'm a puss, again). Since I'm new to all this, it'd be a lot easier if I could move in one on one, but we're always together in a group of atleast 6 or 7 people, so I guess that makes me feel a bit more insecure. I have no knowledge of her sexual experience.

I'd have to agree with you about going for girls out of my league. I really do hold my standards very high, and I'm sure I'd have a lot more experience if I held them a bit lower. I just always tell myself not to settle for less.

Trust me who cares if you have no knowledge of her sexual experience. You know what this girl I just started going out with told me, she admitted she's an "undercover pervert" and most chics are, they just won't admit it, yet damn push the right buttons and some will surprise the hell out of you. With in a few dates she's sending me texts saying things like "I want you to lick me down there right now". lmao

Stop worrying about others guys and worry about what you have to do, nonchalantly ask her out sometime, actually make it more like a suggestion "Sweetie let's meet up here this night, it'll be fun".....

 

[sodbuster]

Life is sometimes like hunting. When you shoot your deer, you are done for the year[marriage] SO maybe wait until you find one you will be happy with. BUT during pheasant season, you can shoot 3 a day and have 21 in possession[as long as the season's been open long enough and if you eat them,they aren't in possession].You don't need to look for the biggest and best pheasant-shoot them as they fly[roosters only,no hens][in dating-hens only please]

SO are you looking for a WIFE-so you need to be fussy OR a girlfriend? No limits on the number of girlfriends,date them all! No BS about I could have had a bunch,but they weren't up to my standards. Practice so when you FINALLY find one that meets your standards she won't think you are inept at dating.