Contrarian Approach to Job Interview

[al77]

My situation is a little bit different: I have some experience and I am gonna have advanced engineering degree soon.

Why not? I emailed about 10 people from different career service departments, most replies were: "Uhh well... khmmm.. I have never heard of anyone who did that, so I do not advise you to do so". They provided no reasoning!!! They got stuck with the cliche "no one did it, so well.. it doesnt work. Dont do it".

Somebody though said "you would look desperate by saying that" and suggested to frame it properly, i.e. "I am so confident I can contribute effectively I can prove it by working for one month for free..."

This is exactly the purpose of this idea: to stand out (since no one did it before), in order to get an interview.
Yes, its sole purpose is to be an attention grabber for the interview.

If they hire me to work for free (1 month) it is obvious they a) want to see how I work b) they are somehwat interested in hiring me.
I'll just do my best, and if they like me - they will hire me. If they don't - well, it is all fair. 1 month is not a long time.

look... there are two ways:
a) do nothing and send a regular boring cover letter.
b) offer to work for free, stand out from teh crowd and increase
chances of getting an interview.

The only thing I am really afraid of is the mentality of "We dont know any better way since we have never seen anything else", when HR people would reject anyone who offer anything outside of mainstream.

It is similar to the herd mentality in all other aspects, for example many people in US buy Ford\GM. When asked "Why? For that kind of money you can get a Japanese car that is much better in many aspects" they tend to be vague with reasoning like "uh well.. all my friends buy Ford.. I dont know...we should buy American cars..". I am very scared of this type of reasoning, when an individual stop thinking and borrow his friends\colleages mindset cuz "it is easier"....

I suspect it is much easier for HR people not to deal with somebody who stands out.

Originally posted by h2o

i mean, i don't think you should just write this to stand out.

you really have to have a point, because what if they do hire you to work for free (even if you just stated it as an attention-grabber for the interview), and you end up working for free? and even if not, it could decrease your chances of getting the job like Gio said.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by Alpine
How to get a name of your future boss.

Imagine you are a person who would deal with that person in business? How would they sound on the phone. With that in mind.

Ring up the company and say. I've got something to email the manager for XYZ, what's his email? Silence.

Quiet often you get it and it's got the name on it. If not just say you want to get the name right, can u spell it for me.

Now if they ask who you are, unfortunately honesty is not the best policy. If you say JOB CV her brain goes straight to ah HR!

Say you have some free software (relevant to job) that you promised, but you embarrasingly forgot the guys name.

Also check websites. Senior people are quite oftem mensioned by name. In terms of level, always er on the side of seniority.

Please don't tell me it won't work or that it's got just as good a chance with HR, cos I'm telling you the score.

I am sure it works for some small companies: where people are more flexible.
I am thinking most relatively large companies I'm going to apply to have no information about managers\divisions on their website. I.e. I wont be able even to figure out who is the manager and manager of what....

Anyway, it is possible but it is really tough: you gotta think quick.
What if she would want to connect you directly to the manager?
What if she just don't know his email?
What if later that lie about software will be discovered?
What if she asks directly "Oh.. are you applying for a position of XYZ?

I would rather email somebody else in the department and ask for thier manager's email - much safer, much less stressful.

 

[Alpine]

It's easy, all those questions have obvious answers. The main barrier is your focus on what will go wrong.

I teach people how to do this in half a day. They are professionals or executives working for mainly for Blue chips, large corps, and that's EXACTLY why you should make all efforts to bypass HR.

Some companies have 'procedures' this is a coded message meaning put your cv on the bottom of the pile sonny. So the manager has to send it to HR, what's he gonna say? I like this CV, get him in!

Anyway, no worries mate I'm not going to try and convince someone who doesn't agree with what I do everyday works, especially if I'm not being paid.

Good luck mate.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by Alpine
It's easy, all those questions have obvious answers. The main barrier is your focus on what will go wrong.

I teach people how to do this in half a day.

Right about the barrier - should not I think about how to deal with it in case of failure?

Not that I disagree that it works, no, but I am saying it is a tough trick to pull if you dont know how.

Obvious answers?
What would you do in these situations:
a) What if she would want to connect you directly to the manager? Read the cover letter to him?

b) What if later that lie about "software" will be discovered?

c) What if she asks directly "Oh.. are you applying for a position of XYZ?

 

[Alpine]

OK,

First, just understand the effort, and yes it is effort, is worth it. I'd say on average you are 10 times more likely to end up with an interview.

There are loads of reasons for this. HR don't know what he really needs, they work on key words, they see too many CVs and start to filter on silly/simple criteria, they will work only on open vacancies not what a manager has planned for the near future and most importantly they have no personal need to fill any job.

On the calling for names front.

Always remember, they don't know who you are and you can always put the phone down if you start to panic.

I've coached people live and what they tend to do is panic and 'come clean'. Bad idea, a)they know who you are and you were being a bit sneaky, and b) chances are you go straight to HR.

a)So they say I'll put you through, so 'NO, that's not what I want, I haven't got time, what's his email. Remember, think like you are senior person in another company. Again, under pressure hang up, don't give personal info.

b)Software? Look, they won't connect that call with you, get the info and send a CV, end of.

c) Now why would she do that? Again think like a manager from another company, if she asks what it's about, my first reaction would be, 'Sorry er what's your name? and er what's your capacity? Phone Monkey, 'Well it's a business matter between me and HIM' be polite but confident.

Now this is all cloak and dagger and sounds like you can tie yourself up in knots, but 8/10 times they will just give it you no probs. The key thing as I say is just put the phone down if you can't handle it, at least you had a go.

More advanced stuff is having a 'cover story', but this is researcher stuff and a bit more serious.

If you do get put straight through to the manager, hold the line, usually people give their name when they answer, job done

I also get senior exec guys say, I think that's immoral/sneaky/devious(insert your negative take here).

Which is a valid perspective. And I say to them. I know what you're saying and just suppose you knew someone good was doing that to get to you, so that you saw their CV, how would you feel?

'Er well, I spose at least it shows a bit of initiative' is the common response.

Give it a go and let me know when you get the I/V