Contrarian Approach to Job Interview

[al77]

I have read a book about Contrarian Approach to business, where the auther suggested, obviously, to be a contrarian.
One of his suggestions of getting an interview was way off the maintsream:
He suggested to offer a potential employer 1 month of working for free (i.e. with no salary) in your cover letter.

I wonder how would people in HR department would accept it?
Would not they think that the applicant is crazy since he doesnt not follow the maintstream? Or that he is too bad and ready to work for free?

What are your opinions?

 

[splinterkb]

You get a job to make money... yet you want to work for free for a year? How will you pay your bills? What the ****?

 

[al77]

Originally posted by splinterkb
You get a job to make money... yet you want to work for free for a year? How will you pay your bills? What the ****?

Nobody is going to work for free for a year. How about a month or two?
What do you guys think - what reaction HR people would have:
"That guy is crazy"
or
"Yeah, he is crazy but lets interview him!"?

 

[splinterkb]

Oh. I thought it said a year and i was like wow..... a month may work, it would almost be like asking for a short term internship.

 

[Unregistered]

I honestly think that would be a bad idea.

In my mind it's the equivalent of walking into a Prison shower room and grabbing your ankles. We all know the result would be the same in both situations.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by Unregistered
I honestly think that would be a bad idea.

Ok, it could be. But why?

What is the reason?

Do you think people in HR dept would not get it?

 

[Coolage]

I think its nuts.

people aren't going to compare two candidates and go well he's more productive but the other guy is a 11/12 of the cost.

HR people rarely do hiring by the way.

I just see it as a tie breaker if anything.

If they like you more you may lose a month's salary for no reason

 

[Sometimes]

do it,

losers get a job for the money

winners get a job for the SKILL

some guy did this, he's a millionare now (forget the name heh)

instead of going to HR, go direct to the source... you'd get a better chance. (remember that they have to spend money to train you, so its not really for free)

 

[spider_007]

If somebody game me a cover letter with that in it, I WOULD THINK THIS GUY IS JOKING, OR HAS SOME ALTERIOR MOTIVES..... SOMTEHING DOESN'T SMELL RIGHT

 

[Coolage]

don't put it in the cover letter.
when they call you you could say you are willing to do whatever it takes to get your foot in the door and mention it.

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

If I was the employer, I would say, "You are worth only as much as the price you put on yourself. If you are free, I might think you are worth nothing.

 

[prosemont]

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
If I was the employer, I would say, "You are worth only as much as the price you put on yourself. If you are free, I might think you are worth nothing.

I tend to agree. However, a few years ago when the job market was very tight in certain professions, I had an applicant write me and call me offering to do a volunteer internship for 3 months to gain some skills and experience and to get a good reference so that he could find a job elsewhere.

I thought that he must not be worth a shiite, but he convinced me by having some good basic credentials, being highly motivated and dogged, and his reasoning was fairly sound: if he did a lousy job for me then he would get worse than no reference -- he'd get a BAD reference. So, I took him up on his offer and he ended up being very productive and, after the 3 months, got a job elsewhere. It worked for us both and, actually, I considered keeping him as a consultant or contract labor at the time he got that job offer.

In certain economies where jobs are scarce and companies are cutting labor costs, and you can't find a job using your best efforts ANYWAY, this may not be a bad move. I suppose it's no worse than doing nothing. Moreover, you'd be surprised at how much companies do look at the bottom line when laying off (or hiring or not hiring) people. A good friend is a CFO and when her company wants to increase cash flow or profits, they cut labor costs almost indiscriminately keeping only key-persons. Everyone else is, frankly, replaceable.

 

[Alpine]

It can work very well, it's how you present it.

First off someone asked whether HR would go for it. Fvck HR, if you are smart, you find out the man who needs people like you and send your CV to them directly.

The work for free idea is a very old ploy. The idea revolves around the objection that you are an unknown, a risk. this gets round it.

In sales there is a method of selling called the puppy dog. Basically you loan to a potential customer whatever it is you have for sale. When you come to take it back, they can't do without it and cough up.

A CV is purely a sales document to GET YOU AN INTERVIEW. Saying you will give them a month to SHOW them how wonderful you are probably won't happen. But you will get an interview and if they like you they may offer you the job anyway.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by Coolage

1. people aren't going to compare two candidates and go well he's more productive but the other guy is a 11/12 of the cost.

2. HR people rarely do hiring by the way.
If they like you more you may lose a month's salary for no reason

1. Somebody do compare resumes\cover letters data of all applicants. An application with "1 month free" does stand out...
I agree it may look weird though in the sense "Ha! we all.. old fish have been swimming in this old proven way for years, and that guy wants to overswim the rest by swimming in a totally odd way? Somehting is... FISHY!"
May question is... how fish that sounds to people who decide to give an inetrview or not?

2. I want to clarify it - it is not about the hiring. The goal is to make my application stand out in order to get an _inetrview_.
Thats right - I am ready to pay so much (potential) money just for an interview.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by spider_007
If somebody game me a cover letter with that in it, I WOULD THINK THIS GUY IS JOKING, OR HAS SOME ALTERIOR MOTIVES..... SOMTEHING DOESN'T SMELL RIGHT

Ok, thats all right. And would you give that guy an interview?
Thats the only goal - to get an interview.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
If I was the employer, I would say, "You are worth only as much as the price you put on yourself. If you are free, I might think you are worth nothing.

It is more complicated than that: If you get a job, first month is still about training and learning and certainly the first month is worth less than the following ones. Most employers know that.

1 month free doesn't mean "I am free <anytime>", it means "I am so confident that I am really good at this work, that I can take risk and show you this: you will not have any risk you will just see how good I am". Sure I am going to convey that along with the offer of "1 month free" in the cover letter.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by prosemont
However, a few years ago when the job market was very tight in certain professions, I had an applicant write me and call me offering to do a volunteer internship for 3 months to gain some skills and experience and to get a good reference so that he could find a job elsewhere.

I suppose it's no worse than doing nothing.

Yes, the idea of an intership is good, but I would rather look for a short paid internship
The whole idea of offering 1 (or more) month free is not to get hired right on the spot cuz they would save a buck or two. They will, yes, but this not what I offer.

The idea is to make my application really stand out: look at me, I am confident that I can do that job. How confident? So much that I can even show you how I work for free.

And the only goal of this is to get an interview.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by Alpine

1. First off someone asked whether HR would go for it. Fvck HR, if you are smart, you find out the man who needs people like you and send your CV to them directly.

2. A CV is purely a sales document to GET YOU AN INTERVIEW. Saying you will give them a month to SHOW them how wonderful you are probably won't happen. But you will get an interview and if they like you they may offer you the job anyway.

1. This is obviously the best way. But in large companies there is almost no way to do that: all people would simple re-direct me to the HR dept.

2. Yes, this is precisely the goal - to _get an interview_! Nothing else - they will decide if they want to hire me or not. The whole idea if to stand out from the piles of similar CV, to show them that I am more confident and more flexible: I am ready to demonstrate how I work for free since I am confident I can do the job really good.

The answer to the question is still unclear to me though:
what would HR people think "No, this is too crazy, if he deviates from the norm, well... we are not gonna hire some deviants!"
or is it "Oh! This CV stands out! Lets give him an interview and see..."?

 

[h2o]

Originally posted by al77
Would not they think that the applicant is crazy since he doesnt not follow the maintstream? Or that he is too bad and ready to work for free?

What are your opinions?

i personally do freelance webdesign/graphic design. when i was first starting out, i offered my services for free so i could add works to my portfolio and spread the word, build good client relations, etc.

if you work in that type of service-based industry, and especially since i've found it challenging to find many high-paying projects without first going with this approach, i would recommend working for free a few times to get a foot in the door, in terms of establishing a reputation.

i honestly don't know about how it would work in terms of working for a company, though. i think what Gio says would be pretty logical:

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
If I was the employer, I would say, "You are worth only as much as the price you put on yourself. If you are free, I might think you are worth nothing.

i mean, i don't think you should just write this to stand out.

coincidentally, my father recently was telling me about this alumni of a school in california who has contributed around $40 million to the school in the past few years. the same guy started out having trouble finding a job out of college, and he really really wanted to work for Intel, so he offered to work for them for free for 6months, and actually ended up doing so before eventually getting a job with them...and look how rich he is now. he has several of his own companies...i think his name is Bill Swanson, president of Raytheon, but i'm not positive.

even in the first chapter of "think and grow rich" there's an example of this. but, i guess you really have to have a point, because what if they do hire you to work for free (even if you just stated it as an attention-grabber for the interview), and you end up working for free? and even if not, it could decrease your chances of getting the job like Gio said.

good luck with the job search anyway. one of my close friends is also currently job searching, and he says it's almost like a job in itself.

 

[Alpine]

How to get a name of your future boss.

Imagine you are a person who would deal with that person in business? How would they sound on the phone. With that in mind.

Ring up the company and say. I've got something to email the manager for XYZ, what's his email? Silence.

Quiet often you get it and it's got the name on it. If not just say you want to get the name right, can u spell it for me.

Now if they ask who you are, unfortunately honesty is not the best policy. If you say JOB CV her brain goes straight to ah HR!

Say you have some free software (relevant to job) that you promised, but you embarrasingly forgot the guys name.

Also check websites. Senior people are quite oftem mensioned by name. In terms of level, always er on the side of seniority.

Please don't tell me it won't work or that it's got just as good a chance with HR, cos I'm telling you the score.