Connection: Do you and her CLICK?

[Rubato]

I agree, he does have those qualities that draw women to him, but my point is that he is very camp and effeminate.

True, you're not wrong, but a lot of women seem to like that these days, or at least that's what I'm noticing.

I'm just not seeing it guys. The guy you're describing has value that transcends his ability to access his masculinity. He is 99% of the world's women's hypergamy because of his social and financial fitness.

The guy is ugly.
The guy is camp.
The guy is a lot of things I wouldn't want to be.

But he's rich and famous, and say what you will about all this DJ stuff and attraction, when you're rich and famous game is secondary. Game is for people who are not rich and famous.

I don't see people within or below my social hierarchy who are able to act like effeminate, flamboyant, gay, camp, metro dudes and still be successful sexually with women. And I'm at a relatively high social hierarchy. My dad is a very well respected MD and medical professor/researcher, makes an incredible living, I live in an awesome house, and am comfortably situated on the boundaries between upper middle class and upper class.

Maybe it's a regional thing. I don't know. Jariel, do the women in the UK take on a more masculine archetype across the pond? I've never been there, but I know that in the dynamic I live in in the NE USA, guys who act that way get made fun of and have a relational ceiling set at status "friend" with women.

 

[gimmeyofonenumba]

You need to reset the frame. If there is no connection. Refer to what burroughs said. It is not our job to entertain women. I had happened to me recently. The girl was being very difficult and clearly was no connection but i flipped the script. Asked else she brings to the tabke other than looks, and change body langhage to pulling away. The convo became very easy and fun. Easy number close and this girl constantly texts me. Moral of the story: she needs to entertain you. Her looks are not enough.

 

[Viagra4Soul]

I'm just not seeing it guys. The guy you're describing has value that transcends his ability to access his masculinity. He is 99% of the world's women's hypergamy because of his social and financial fitness.

The guy is ugly.
The guy is camp.
The guy is a lot of things I wouldn't want to be.

Fair enough. Agree with all that.

Here is what Russel Brand brings to the table for (some) women, beyond any narrow view of what masculinity is, and besides fame and fortune:

* He's tall and dresses like a 70's rock star, and more importantly, carries himself like one 100% of the time. He is the archetypal Bad Boy. Go do a Google search on Steven Tyler and Mick Jagger's dress from the late 70's - you think those guys are good looking or dressing in a masculine way? You think they EVER had to worry about chicks constantly breaking down their doors for sex?! You better believe it..
* He doesn't give a flying fu#k what you, or I, or especially any woman thinks of him.
* He's totally open about his drug use and lifestyle - if you hang with Russell Brand, you should expect to be out all night, in the company of other women, and be partying past dawn. That's the deal and that's what he offers - take it or leave it.
* He busts on anyone, including himself, without fear or favour. His JOB is to be funny and entertaining - he doesn't do it to get women. Great chicks banging him is a SIDE EFFECT of his whole life's work.
* He reeks confidence. Self styled, no act, born with it, confidence.
* He's intelligent and constantly turns conversations back on the person he's talking to, in order to question their motivations. This becomes another opportunity for him to be funny and build rapport.
* Women find him attractive because he engages their minds. His eye contact is legendary, his dis-arming smile is always there, and he burrows into their heads and won't go away. 5 minutes with him one on one and most women will be physically exhausted from the mental effort of keeping up with his gaze. ALL of them are going to be reporting back that they 'just clicked with him'.

Here's 5 women with him you'll recognise. It's not a GREAT performance by him actually, but he even brings the cold lesbian (check her body language throughout) out from behind her shield. And check the touching he constantly applies (what you lot love calling 'kino')...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx5jKGlv9Ek

This one is too much..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EXjo1LJ1B0&feature=related

This is his best work - at 2 mins he start on them, at 4 mins he has both eating out of his hand (watch the body language on the blonde - if she leant any further into him, her chair would tip over! A kiss from him at that point and she would have simply melted into his body. She is stupefied.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it1DL60qe8M&feature=related

I do not love him. Even the Gods get it wrong sometimes. But you gotta respect that frame!

 

[Jariel]

But he's rich and famous, and say what you will about all this DJ stuff and attraction, when you're rich and famous game is secondary. Game is for people who are not rich and famous.

That would make a lot of sense, except that he was banging lots of women before he got his big break.

Maybe it's a regional thing. I don't know. Jariel, do the women in the UK take on a more masculine archetype across the pond? I've never been there, but I know that in the dynamic I live in in the NE USA, guys who act that way get made fun of and have a relational ceiling set at status "friend" with women.

Well there have definitely been some major gender changes over the years and although girls often look more feminine and more attractive than ever, they are more sexually confident, bolder and more dominant than women of past decades.

I remember some years ago when geeks and effeminate wimps were humble, they knew their place in society and were often bullied, whereas nowadays geeks are ****y little fvckers and women seem to really go for them!

Maybe it's appealing for women who like to take control. I find the sort of women who go for a guy like me (well built and masculine) tend to be more the submissive type, at least sexually.

 

[Jariel]

* He's intelligent and constantly turns conversations back on the person he's talking to, in order to question their motivations. This becomes another opportunity for him to be funny and build rapport.
* Women find him attractive because he engages their minds. His eye contact is legendary, his dis-arming smile is always there, and he burrows into their heads and won't go away. 5 minutes with him one on one and most women will be physically exhausted from the mental effort of keeping up with his gaze. ALL of them are going to be reporting back that they 'just clicked with him'.

I totally agree and this is the point I was originally making. I think a guy like him is able to "connect" or "click" better with women than the average sporting hero, for example. He's able to relate to them on their level.

I've got a bit off topic in the last few posts, but bringing it back, I feel this is a major aspect of seduction. A lot of guys go in thinking that if they act aloof or play up the bad boy role that women are going to start chasing them. It doesn't work like that. First, you have to make that connection. The bad boy/indifference can come later.

My seduction game is very much like this. I'm usually spinning upto 5-10 plates at a time, but I make each of them feel like they're the only woman in the world I'm interested in. I take time to learn about them, relate to them and encourage their passions, and many of these women become extremely keen, sometimes even infatuated with me.

The mistake I've been making, however, is that I continue seducing this way after sex. It becomes overbearing and scares women off. But I've learned that once you have seduced a woman, that's the time to play the indifference card.


ps. I just watched those Russel Brand youtube vids and noticed how awkward and submissive his bodylanguage appears. It goes against everything we preach on this forum.

 

[Rubato]

I find the sort of women who go for a guy like me (well built and masculine) tend to be more the submissive type, at least sexually.

That's so funny. I was a chubby AFC who didn't think I'd ever got a beautiful girl because I had a gut, severe social anxiety and was obsessed with video games.

I had a near death experience and was introduced to this society via Deangelo. So I lost weight and dropped the video games and though I was still basically an AFC thought girls had to like me because I was a skinny guy. I got skinny all right, to the point that I looked camp and effeminate.

Now I'm somewhere in an intermediate position between being a skinny guy and a well built muscular guy and it's not like I'm working out strictly for the women, but I do see physical fitness as an accessory that raises your sexual marketplace value... and was thinking that once I become a jacked and ripped beast of a man, that's it.

All I know is that when I was at my skinniest, people said I looked metro, asked me if I was gay, and girls even started calling me "girlfriend". It was harder for me to get dates as a skinny effeminate looking guy (I look really camp super skinny) than it was when I was bordering on being fat. I don't feel like people respected me, girls certainly didn't, and I can't tell you how many times either preemptively LJBF'd me by reminding me how awesome of a friend I am or LJBF'd me when I would ask them on a date. One girl even looked legitimately surprised when I asked her out and said something like "I didn't know you were bi!?!?"

I couldn't take it. It happens to my friend too. He's a really super skinny guy and even I think he is probably gay because he's so effeminate. He gets sexually teased by a lot of girls, but since I met him almost 2 years ago now, he's only had sex with 2 girls. And he's tried for a lot more than 2.

Maybe it's just a regional thing over here, but I don't see camp type guys being successful. "Bros" are the guys who are successful everywhere I've ever been.... big (usually fat) guys who have no sense of style, dress like trash, are all man and nothing else, may have unkept facial hair, sit at the sportsbar all day drinking with their other bros, rolling deep with the bros, and all that stuff. That's been a huge motivating factor for me to become more masculine (not that I was ever very feminine... I just looked effeminate skinny)

 

[MisterD]

Have to agree, I've experienced both and making a connection is obviously the better choice and I think the choice we'd all like to have.

It's very draining manufacturing interest. I feel like if I dont execute 100% then it will fall through. Whereas I can make mistakes with people that connect with me and its all good.

In short, there is more room for error when you share a connection with someone. It's like...I dont want to get too cosmic here, but its like you're on the same energy. I think most of us are here because that type of connection has been hard to find, so we're improving ourselves to make that sort of connection happen. I dont think any of us want our relationships with women to feel like a job. It should run smoothly and naturally.

 

[Viagra4Soul]

ps. I just watched those Russel Brand youtube vids and noticed how awkward and submissive his bodylanguage appears. It goes against everything we preach on this forum.

I don't think so - that's not submission. That's 'cute' he's doing - he plays this very well for older women, especially for The View crew (notice it changes to a much more masculine, in-control sexual predator in other vids). He's in a dangerous crowd with these women, and he knows it. He's also very physically imposing on these shorter women (notice as he walks in how he picks this up). He is very careful to manage his body language so they know absolutely he's joking. They see him as vulnerable, funny and slightly dangerous - like a cute, slightly out of control brother. He's holding a LOT back here. IMHO.

The difference in any other video you can dredge up is appreciable.

 

[MisterD]

That's so funny. I was a chubby AFC who didn't think I'd ever got a beautiful girl because I had a gut, severe social anxiety and was obsessed with video games.

I had a near death experience and was introduced to this society via Deangelo. So I lost weight and dropped the video games and though I was still basically an AFC thought girls had to like me because I was a skinny guy. I got skinny all right, to the point that I looked camp and effeminate.

Now I'm somewhere in an intermediate position between being a skinny guy and a well built muscular guy and it's not like I'm working out strictly for the women, but I do see physical fitness as an accessory that raises your sexual marketplace value... and was thinking that once I become a jacked and ripped beast of a man, that's it.

All I know is that when I was at my skinniest, people said I looked metro, asked me if I was gay, and girls even started calling me "girlfriend". It was harder for me to get dates as a skinny effeminate looking guy (I look really camp super skinny) than it was when I was bordering on being fat. I don't feel like people respected me, girls certainly didn't, and I can't tell you how many times either preemptively LJBF'd me by reminding me how awesome of a friend I am or LJBF'd me when I would ask them on a date. One girl even looked legitimately surprised when I asked her out and said something like "I didn't know you were bi!?!?"

I couldn't take it. It happens to my friend too. He's a really super skinny guy and even I think he is probably gay because he's so effeminate. He gets sexually teased by a lot of girls, but since I met him almost 2 years ago now, he's only had sex with 2 girls. And he's tried for a lot more than 2.

Maybe it's just a regional thing over here, but I don't see camp type guys being successful. "Bros" are the guys who are successful everywhere I've ever been.... big (usually fat) guys who have no sense of style, dress like trash, are all man and nothing else, may have unkept facial hair, sit at the sportsbar all day drinking with their other bros, rolling deep with the bros, and all that stuff. That's been a huge motivating factor for me to become more masculine (not that I was ever very feminine... I just looked effeminate skinny)

I think there is a difference between skinny and scrawny. You can be skinny and be perfectly fine so as long as you have some sort of muscle definition that makes you look lean and cut, as opposed to just skeletal. Bottom line though, sometimes we analyze too deeply. I'm sure we've all seen men of all body types with women. As long as you're fit, healthy, and confident in your body you'll be fine.

Also, the bros that you mentioned could be "successful" because of their personality (i.e. focusing on doing masculine things and not putting women on pedestals) Also, successful is subjective. He may have a hot girlfriend that's out of his league but they're exclusive, and I could be a single guy banging a new girl every week. I would say I'm more successful at actually landing chicks because he limits himself to one girl, and I'm racking all different kinds of women, on a weekly basis. There is much to look at when talking about all of these things. Anywhere from the quality of the woman/women to how many of them they're getting.

If being a chubby, unkept guy with no style was a successful way to get high quality women, I dont think this forum would exist haha. You know? It would be too easy