Change for the Worse in the Air?

[Stugots26]

Evolutionarily, and traditionally, we know that women are more attracted to confident men, and women know that "if you don't stand up to her, you won't stand up for her," so they desire assertive men.

Has anyone begun to get the sense that more and more, women are acting in ways that YOU KNOW are shooting themselves in their feet by acting directly opposite to their own innate interests? As in they are running away from us men who stand up to them when they lob tests at us and actually seeking out less assertive, more compliant men as partners?

I see them settling for these men who seemingly will tolerate excuses, will let them have their ways, and will give an inch, and it's so directly opposite their own interests because they're less attracted to these men. Have women just completely lost all sense of what drives them sexually?

Thoughts?

 

[Tictac]

When did you become an authority on what someone else's best interests are?

 

[Stugots26]

You disagree that it is evolutionarily ingrained in women to find assertive men attractive?

 

[Tictac]

Is that what I said?

I asked you what makes you an authority on what someone else's own interests are.

 

[Stugots26]

Fvck off. I don't have to qualify myself to you. You're welcome to respond to my observation.

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

Two points, such as is TMK's way.

1) Say you always worked jobs where you were basically allowed to do what you like, turn up and leave when you want, allowed to work other jobs as and when you please. Then one day you start a job that means you have to show up on time, be smart, pay for your own lunch and generally make efforts, well you'd probably think this better be the best job in the world, otherwise I am outta here. The same goes when a woman meets a man; if she is gonna get dolled up on a weekly basis and have to spend her own money, this guy better be something spectacular, because she can just as easily go out,have drinks paid all night by strangers without any drama. That is not a new nor evolving concept though.

2) And I think to expand upon Tictac's point. As someone who has been converted to the non-boundaries camp over the last year or two, if there comes a stage where you have to 'stand up' to a woman, your primary thought should not be trying to change her behaviour. Rather you should be seriously considering if you should continue seeing her. Unless a woman is deliriously in love, horizontal laid-back, or psychologically unhinged, she wont be changing for any man and nor should any man even bother attempting to change her. Personally, TMK had to walk away from a girl he loved last year, for the simple fact she wasn't showing up in ways he wanted. Why bother trying to change someone, it probably won't be lasting change anyway, it takes a lot of will-power and motivation to change; a lot of people here know that especially. Desire cannot be negotiated, only inspired.

 

[BlueAlpha1]

Evolutionarily, and traditionally, we know that women are more attracted to confident men, and women know that "if you don't stand up to her, you won't stand up for her," so they desire assertive men.

Has anyone begun to get the sense that more and more, women are acting in ways that YOU KNOW are shooting themselves in their feet by acting directly opposite to their own innate interests? As in they are running away from us men who stand up to them when they lob tests at us and actually seeking out less assertive, more compliant men as partners?

I see them settling for these men who seemingly will tolerate excuses, will let them have their ways, and will give an inch, and it's so directly opposite their own interests because they're less attracted to these men. Have women just completely lost all sense of what drives them sexually?

Thoughts?

OP, ignore this silly old man. He's here to troll and argue with people 40 years younger than he, might be a little upset that the evolution you're talking about has passed him by. In a recent thread he basically said every millennial is bum if they're not working 160 hours a week for a corporation like he did his whole life.

To address your thread, yes there is definitely a cognitive dissonance there. At 26 I am more brash than I've ever been, and the flakes I've gotten in the last year have virtually all been from scaring the girl off with hyper-aggressive alpha game. For all intents and purposes I'm telling the girls I want to bang them about the 2nd or 3rd test...and the idea of doing that kind of thing would scare a beta more than passing a kidney stone. But there's no creeper vibe because I require a great personal connection that had to have happened beforehand. They're literally just getting scared off - it's what they want deep down but it's outside their comfort zone. They're perfectly happy cozying up with their smartphones with 20 betas messaging them than actually coming through with that alpha who threatens their equilibrium and sense of control.

 

[Tictac]

In a recent thread he basically said every millennial is bum if they're not working 160 hours a week for a corporation like he did his whole life.

Quote me or bite me Junior.

Go make stuff up for people that think you are anything other than a loudmouth bottom feeder.

 

[Stugots26]

TMK: I agree with you. I'm not saying that we stand up to change their behavior, but in the early sh!t tests that they give us. The tests we're all familiar with.

Regarding your first point - the fact that a confident, self-assured man who is willing to walk away is so rare is typically enough of a reason for him to be considered spectacular. And as we continue to evolve into better men by focusing on ourselves, that becomes more and more accurate.

I'm saying that I'm continuously getting the sense more and more that in being who I am, my confidence in myself is palpable, that my desire to live my life on my terms, not pedestalize women, and being willing to walk away rather than compromise myself comes across loud and clear. And rather than be drawn to me, I'm seeing women cower as soon as they get the sense that I will stand up for myself. They wind up choosing men who pedestalize them and compromise themselves in the process. And this doesn't make sense, because even the current cultural icons that women find attractive have traditional male qualities.

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

self-assured man who is willing to walk away is so rare is typically enough of a reason for him to be considered spectacular.

Well, those are facets of the thing, though not sure these are personal attributes that make a guy spectacular. Positive traits which back up his own self-assurance are what make him spectacular; physical and psychological health, grooming, portable income, a steady social circle, passions and interests - these are things that support who we say we are. These are things that will make a woman chase once you have backed away.

I see where your OP is coming from. But from personal experience, I have recently decided that I am still to become a man. I have been thinking like a man, but I have still been behaving a bit like a boy - going out getting trashed with my mates, living up to and beyond my means, not exercising will-power etc etc. With due respect, I'd say that your self assured ability to walk away has entitlement written all over it, and, is a slightly boyish outlook. Behaving one way or another doesn't entitle you to anything.

Anyone can be assured and walk away from anyone or anything at a given point. On evolutionary terms, it is in fact a highly unattractive trait for a man to walk away and desert a woman (and potentially their offspring). This is not a positive outlook to focus on. In fact, a pandering beta male is the much safer option on an evolutionary scale. It's about striking a balance between being a powerful man, and not scaring the living day lights out of her. 'Alpha, with pepperings of beta', is a term I once heard, and still quite like.

Women as we know are ultimate bullsh!t artists and they can sense it a mile away. You have to live and breathe your lifestyle; if not, a woman will let you walk away, because you are not the finished article, and, to all intents and purposes neither are you a cultural icon.

Become the person you know you have to be then you never have to 'act' one way or another again.

 

[logicallefty]

Women are looking at getting the most given to them for the least amount of work on their part, pure and simple.... They look at it as two broad choices, A and B, and pick A because it's less work.

Choice A:
- Be with a man who is easy on them and doesn't hold them accountable for their bu||$hit
- Suck him dry in every way possible (mentally, physically, emotionally, financially, etc)
- Maybe have some kids
- Leave him to rot and cash out in divorce court
- Blame everything on him
- Go find a new man and start the process over again

Choice B:
- Find a man with a backbone who is a real man who doesn't put up with the bu||$hit
- Contribute her fair share of resources and energy to the relationship
- Understand that biologically men are designed to lead, and women are designed to be lead
- Genuinely work hard to be the best partner she can be
- Stick by her man's side on his darkest days
- Take responsibility for her own shortcomings and own them

 

[FCB]

TMK: I agree with you. I'm not saying that we stand up to change their behavior, but in the early sh!t tests that they give us. The tests we're all familiar with.

Regarding your first point - the fact that a confident, self-assured man who is willing to walk away is so rare is typically enough of a reason for him to be considered spectacular. And as we continue to evolve into better men by focusing on ourselves, that becomes more and more accurate.

I'm saying that I'm continuously getting the sense more and more that in being who I am, my confidence in myself is palpable, that my desire to live my life on my terms, not pedestalize women, and being willing to walk away rather than compromise myself comes across loud and clear. And rather than be drawn to me, I'm seeing women cower as soon as they get the sense that I will stand up for myself. They wind up choosing men who pedestalize them and compromise themselves in the process. And this doesn't make sense, because even the current cultural icons that women find attractive have traditional male qualities.

There is a problem with your argument. Showing girls that we can easily walk away and that we are self-assured does play into what women want, but moreso its sub-conscious. Its about options, and women have multiple and as humans we also tend to go for whats easier. Many times women are working against their best interests and don't realize it, as are we before we are clued in. They can view that behavior as a risk, before they are invested and if they don't have a very high IL they will cut and run much easier, they have an easy option and this guy looks like he could love and leave me so why take the risk? With a girl who has a very high IL or you are by far the best option and they have high ambition they aren't going to respond poorly, but if that dynamic isn't there many times they'll withdraw. Think about it like this, for this to work we have to be head and shoulders making them feel things others aren't, if we aren't that seperated in other areas we can't create that by just standing up to them and s howing them we'll walk away, because they don't respect us enough at that point or view us as high enough value that they won't take the easier option in many cases. Not saying it doesn't work, but its not going to be a major factor to hinge our success on.

 

[BlueAlpha1]

Quote me or bite me Junior.

Go make stuff up for people that think you are anything other than a loudmouth bottom feeder.

I'm paraphrasing from when I shredded you and marmel75 in a debate about the current day workforce. I thought I told you to pipe down and get back to bingo and shuffleboard...

 

[Tictac]

I'm paraphrasing from when I shredded you and marmel75 in a debate about the current day workforce. I thought I told you to pipe down and get back to bingo and shuffleboard...

You shredded nothing twerp, except a few of your remaining brain cells.

Making sh*t up is not paraphrasing. Try paraphrasing reality if you ever get a grip.

You're a joke.

 

[BlueAlpha1]

You shredded nothing twerp, except a few of your remaining brain cells.

Making sh*t up is not paraphrasing. Try paraphrasing reality if you ever get a grip.

You're a joke.

The joke is a guy with 10 years to live trolling people on a website made up of mostly guys 1/4 your age. The OP had a fair question, but you tried to pick a fight which is what you always do. Multiple people have called you out for this before.

Are you retired? Is this what you worked 40 years for? Don't you have a talent or skill from 1970 you can rekindle instead of annoying people on here?

 

[Tictac]

The joke is a guy with 10 years to live trolling people on a website made up of mostly guys 1/4 your age. The OP had a fair question, but you tried to pick a fight which is what you always do.

Are you retired? Is this what you worked 40 years for?

Retired at 48 with more money than I thought existed. Got bored and started my own company 15 years back. We're up to dozen now with all of our growth outside the US (China and the Caribbean, where we are headquartered)

What you think of me is none of my business.

 

[BlueAlpha1]

Retired at 48 with more money than I thought existed. Got bored and started my own company 15 years back. We're up to dozen now with all of our growth outside the US (China and the Caribbean, where we are headquartered)

What you think of me is none of my business.

So one has to wonder why someone so successful has 2,500 posts mostly picking fights on the internet.

 

[Tictac]

So one has to wonder why someone so successful has 2,500 posts mostly picking fights on the internet.

You're boring me kid.

Get lost.

I don't need groupies.

 

[ubercat]

Fcvk me - little respect for seniors. TT is a grumpy old bastard on occasion but he s earned it. Gaming at his age when most soft ****s have thrown in the towel. Him and Scarra r bloody legends. Imagine how many 00s of annoying flakes they ve had to eat. U d b grumpy too.​

 

[BlueAlpha1]

Fcvk me - little respect for seniors. TT is a grumpy old bastard on occasion but he s earned it. Gaming at his age when most soft ****s have thrown in the towel. Him and Scarra r bloody legends. Imagine how many 00s of annoying flakes they ve had to eat. U d b grumpy too.​

Never was a big believer in respecting some disillusioned idiot just because they're old. It's the dirty, lazy millennial in me.