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Case Study - what are the learning points and your impressions?

Vlyo

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Hey there. I'm new to this forum but was familiar with it in my early 20s and used to follow the forum for a short period.

Anyway, I'm here to share a recent experience with everybody to gain clarity (writing it down helps and when it is exposed to the public your biases are exposed). I am interested in other's people's perspectives, and what they think can be learned from the experience. I am here for a better understanding.

So let me put it out there as simply and clearly as I can muster:

A 22 y/o colleague at my work place is newly employed and I engage and arrange a date within two weeks. We begin to hook up.

I learn that she had recently come out of a 3 year relationship with a man in his mid-40s (divorced, 2 kids, one of which is her best friend). She moved out from his place and city and to another town (within driving distance) and initiated the break up due to his behaviour.
Post-break up, he regularly communicates with her over the phone in an attempt to get her back.

To begin with, I clearly function as a tool to manipulate his emotions and as rebound (provide her with self-esteem). I am uncomfortable with the former, and quickly demand not to be involved in her relationship and for her not to speak of him while we are together - this is respected.

We see each other very frequently (an error on my behalf, it was exciting, and I undermined my other responsibilities). His calls and texts are frequent. He would sometimes call multiple times whilst we were together (of-course, only to be ignored).

Two months in, she is still in frequent contact with him. They are or must be bargaining and negotiating terms, I realise. They never really broke up. She wants a baby and a long-term partner. He demonstrates through his actions high interest and low probability of abandonment. He has adequate social status and resources. I am told by her that she is considering of getting back with him and that he agreed to provide her with a baby (I originally thought this was a lie when I was made aware).

Soon enough, she puts aside less time for me, and sees him during weekends. Quickly after, an offer of friendship is made with me, and the negotiation is complete, she returns to him. His understanding is that we "only kissed". Naturally, her "offer" is rejected, and no time or energy on my part is invested into her outside of work purposes.

Over the next month (May), she makes attempts at setting up a rendezvous outside of work with me - this is rejected, and the personal relationship ends (although she does initiate and engage at work). She says "she hates me" and "I am a bad person" frequently with a smile or whilst laughing (a sign of her immaturity), and there's sexual tension and she's often nervous, but I do not engage.

I now learn she is 3 months pregnant.

That's it, folks. I see this as a big 'win' for her and I am somewhat surprised at the actions and decisions that man has taken.


Any questions? What are your thoughts?
 
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Modern Man Advice

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Hey there. I'm new to this forum but was familiar with it in my early 20s and used to follow the forum for a short period.

Anyway, I'm here to share a recent experience with everybody to gain clarity (writing it down helps and when it is exposed to the public your biases are exposed). I am interested in other's people's perspectives, and what they think can be learned from the experience. I am not here for help or advice, just a better understanding.

So let me put it out there as simply and clearly as I can muster:

A 22 y/o colleague at my work place is newly employed and I engage and arrange a date within two weeks. We begin to hook up.

I learn that she had recently come out of a 3 year relationship with a man in his mid-40s (divorced, 2 kids, one of which is her best friend). She moved out from his place and city and to another town (within driving distance).
Despite this she is in frequent contact with him and she broke up with him due to his behaviour (her behaviour seemed to frustrate and anger him, and she felt undermined).
Post-break up, he regularly communicates with her over the phone in an attempt to get her back. She plays ball.

To begin with, I clearly function as a tool to manipulate his emotions and as rebound (provide her with self-esteem). I am uncomfortable with the former, and quickly demand not to be involved in her relationship and for her not to speak of him while we are together - this is respected.

We see each other very frequently (an error on my behalf, it was exciting, and I undermined my other responsibilities). His calls and texts are frequent. He would sometimes call multiple times whilst we were together (of-course, only to be ignored).

Two months in, she is still in frequent contact with him. They are or must be bargaining and negotiating terms, I realise. They never really broke up. She wants a baby and a long-term partner. He demonstrates through his actions high interest and low probability of abandonment. He has adequate social status and resources. I am told by her that she is considering of getting back with him and that he would provide her with a baby.

Soon enough, she puts aside less time for me, and sees him during weekends. Quickly after, an offer of friendship is made with me, and the negotiation is complete, she returns to him. Naturally, her "offer" is rejected, and no time or energy is invested into her outside of work purposes. Over the next month (May), she makes attempts at setting up a rendezvous outside of work - this is rejected, and the personal relationship ends (although she does initiate and engage at work).

I now learn she is 3 months pregnant.

That's it, folks. I see this as a big 'win' for her and I am somewhat surprised at the actions and decisions that man has taken.
This is far too common. She was alpha widowed. It was your turn. That ended and she went back to something she genuinely desired. You were just a part of that process.

What you need to keep in mind is that you enjoy yourself every single time, keeping in mind it is only your turn until she decides otherwise. Hopefully, you learned a thing or two about this experience but know this is not a reflection of who you are. You were simply caught in the middle, and as long as you don't get attached and enjoy yourself while it is still your turn, then it's all good.

People come and go, all the time. Cut contact and walk away aloof to the end result.

Continue on your journey whichever that may be.

Cheers,
Modern Man Advice
 

Vlyo

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Why bother messing with a chick at work?
To much drama, me now owning my own business's I could face a lawsuit, ain't no coochie worth the headache
Circumstance and attraction just led to it. I was also moving to a new company soon.

I believe I managed the situation well; there was minimal drama after we stopped seeing each other, and communication was not affected to a degree that it would hinder work objectives.

There were risks, yes, but I would do it again. I am not sure if a law suit would have been a probable risk in my situation, but you're right, I should probably be more careful with this.

I believe that she would have cheated during that month when attempting to set up meetings outside of work with me after she returned to him. Interestingly, it was during this period that she had fallen pregnant.

Maybe, that's just what I like to think.
 
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oldmanofthesea

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You're luck you got off so easily given that it's a work colleague. I advise never to get into relationships with people from your work. When things don't work out, it can become miserable and she can create a lot of problems for you, up to and including losing your job.

Don't see it as a big "win" for her. You had fun with her, got some good sex, and now it's time to move on. That's it. Two months is nothing and one shouldn't consider it a relationship at that point nor invest many feelings into it. For the first 2-3 months your focus should be just hanging out a bit, having great sex, and having fun. No strings attached, no commitment, no projecting what your future together is going to look like or where things are going to go. Just casual dating until SHE brings up wanting a formal relationship and at that point you decide if you want to be locked down or not.

Their relationship sounds dysfunctional so I really doubt she won anything here. More likely, you dodged a bullet and enjoyed some great sex.

It sounds like you already know what lessons to take from this:
1. Don't date women from work
2. Don't invest in women before 2-3 months of dating and evaluation and her showing you she is worthy of your investment beyond just casual dating and sex. If you find out she's fresh out of a relationship then invest even LESS and require an even longer evaluation period. I've never met a rebound girl who turned into a real LTR. They are either still pining for their ex, trying to use you to frame-grab their ex, or if it's been a long relationship, they are out to reevaluate their current sexual marketplace value and they accomplish that by running through as many guys as they can until they fly too close to the sun and start getting pumped and dumped and mistreated. For those women, you are just a stepping stone on their SMV journey, and that's fine - so long as all you see it as is good sex and nothing more. You lose nothing.
3. Don't put your life on hold in order to spend a bunch of time with a girl. Pace yourself. Pace her too. She should be craving you because she isn't seeing you as much as she wants. It's ok to increase the frequency if SHE says she wants to see you more but DO NOT overcompensate and start seeing her a ton each week. Try to figure out how much she wants to see you and see her a bit less than that.
 

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Vlyo

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You're luck you got off so easily given that it's a work colleague. I advise never to get into relationships with people from your work. When things don't work out, it can become miserable and she can create a lot of problems for you, up to and including losing your job.

Don't see it as a big "win" for her. You had fun with her, got some good sex, and now it's time to move on. That's it. Two months is nothing and one shouldn't consider it a relationship at that point nor invest many feelings into it. For the first 2-3 months your focus should be just hanging out a bit, having great sex, and having fun. No strings attached, no commitment, no projecting what your future together is going to look like or where things are going to go. Just casual dating until SHE brings up wanting a formal relationship and at that point you decide if you want to be locked down or not.

Their relationship sounds dysfunctional so I really doubt she won anything here. More likely, you dodged a bullet and enjoyed some great sex.

It sounds like you already know what lessons to take from this:
1. Don't date women from work
2. Don't invest in women before 2-3 months of dating and evaluation and her showing you she is worthy of your investment beyond just casual dating and sex. If you find out she's fresh out of a relationship then invest even LESS and require an even longer evaluation period. I've never met a rebound girl who turned into a real LTR. They are either still pining for their ex, trying to use you to frame-grab their ex, or if it's been a long relationship, they are out to reevaluate their current sexual marketplace value and they accomplish that by running through as many guys as they can until they fly too close to the sun and start getting pumped and dumped and mistreated. For those women, you are just a stepping stone on their SMV journey, and that's fine - so long as all you see it as is good sex and nothing more. You lose nothing.
3. Don't put your life on hold in order to spend a bunch of time with a girl. Pace yourself. Pace her too. She should be craving you because she isn't seeing you as much as she wants. It's ok to increase the frequency if SHE says she wants to see you more but DO NOT overcompensate and start seeing her a ton each week. Try to figure out how much she wants to see you and see her a bit less than that.
Thanks for your comment. I understand and agree, and particularly appreciate point 2. The whole process was a frame-grab op. What a sight..

I am/was in the process of rationalising how she got back together with him because I was a very good option (at-least, I would have expected this to be her perception - I was not considering a committed LTR, it was not a balanced relationship from my perspective), and his behaviour demonstrated neediness and limited options (he was over-valuing her by bargaining with promises of resources, I observed him contacting her multiple times only to be ignored, and willing to accept she was sleeping with another man, unless he fell for her lies).

I did not expect his actions to cut through, but with a child in the picture, and from a rational point of view, these qualities and behaviours can serve as an asset. I wonder if her intuition was functioning in the same manner my reasoning is, or maybe, my reasoning is just a way to save ego. I clearly feel like I have been out-competed and it's probably affecting my judgement.

After we hooked up once, I never had to set up another date and never asked to see her, but she would ask frequently. I complied too much, so yes, I will take your advice and I have also thought about this issue. That tends to happen with attractive women, my focus naturally drifts away from my other constructive habits and is consumed by sex and the desire to play with them, and it just leads to degeneration, which, at-least, is a learning experience to be better disciplined the next time round.
 
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Grounded eagle

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Hey there. I'm new to this forum but was familiar with it in my early 20s and used to follow the forum for a short period.

Anyway, I'm here to share a recent experience with everybody to gain clarity (writing it down helps and when it is exposed to the public your biases are exposed). I am interested in other's people's perspectives, and what they think can be learned from the experience. I am here for a better understanding.

So let me put it out there as simply and clearly as I can muster:

A 22 y/o colleague at my work place is newly employed and I engage and arrange a date within two weeks. We begin to hook up.

I learn that she had recently come out of a 3 year relationship with a man in his mid-40s (divorced, 2 kids, one of which is her best friend). She moved out from his place and city and to another town (within driving distance) and initiated the break up due to his behaviour.
Post-break up, he regularly communicates with her over the phone in an attempt to get her back.

To begin with, I clearly function as a tool to manipulate his emotions and as rebound (provide her with self-esteem). I am uncomfortable with the former, and quickly demand not to be involved in her relationship and for her not to speak of him while we are together - this is respected.

We see each other very frequently (an error on my behalf, it was exciting, and I undermined my other responsibilities). His calls and texts are frequent. He would sometimes call multiple times whilst we were together (of-course, only to be ignored).

Two months in, she is still in frequent contact with him. They are or must be bargaining and negotiating terms, I realise. They never really broke up. She wants a baby and a long-term partner. He demonstrates through his actions high interest and low probability of abandonment. He has adequate social status and resources. I am told by her that she is considering of getting back with him and that he agreed to provide her with a baby (I originally thought this was a lie when I was made aware).

Soon enough, she puts aside less time for me, and sees him during weekends. Quickly after, an offer of friendship is made with me, and the negotiation is complete, she returns to him. His understanding is that we "only kissed". Naturally, her "offer" is rejected, and no time or energy on my part is invested into her outside of work purposes.

Over the next month (May), she makes attempts at setting up a rendezvous outside of work with me - this is rejected, and the personal relationship ends (although she does initiate and engage at work). She says "she hates me" and "I am a bad person" frequently with a smile or whilst laughing (a sign of her immaturity), and there's sexual tension and she's often nervous, but I do not engage.

I now learn she is 3 months pregnant.

That's it, folks. I see this as a big 'win' for her and I am somewhat surprised at the actions and decisions that man has taken.


Any questions? What are your thoughts?
Considering the circumstances, I think you handled this well enough.Just try to disengage from her completely and permanently.If you must,keep it work related.
 

Vlyo

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I am completely disengaged and have been for a while and work somewhere else now.

She has left as well, as she's pregnant, and it's probable that he will now be supporting her and she will be unemployed but I don't know what decisions she has or will make.
 

oldmanofthesea

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I clearly feel like I have been out-competed and it's probably affecting my judgement.
I am/was in the process of rationalising how she got back together with him because I was a very good option (at-least, I would have expected this to be her perception - I was not considering a committed LTR, it was not a balanced relationship from my perspective), and his behaviour demonstrated neediness and limited options (he was over-valuing her by bargaining with promises of resources, I observed him contacting her multiple times only to be ignored, and willing to accept she was sleeping with another man, unless he fell for her lies).
You can't rationalize why women do what they do because they don't think like men. Their motivations make no sense to us in many ways. A big part of this forum is guys talking about experiences and observations they have made that help translate a woman's actions into something a man can understand, but even understanding it doesn't mean you could or even should operate differently in order to change future outcomes with future women (though sometimes it does).

Some women who are very anxious and insecure, even if they are really hot, can't handle being with a high-value masculine guy. It makes them too anxious and they have to be in control of everything. So those women often get with a really beta blue pill pushover provider who they can manage and have no fears about. They usually end up cheating on them too.

Just think about what kind of a prize a woman is who wants to make a family and the way she forces her boyfriend to comply with her demand is to go bang another guy. Best of luck to the two of them but I do not see a happy, stable family in their future.
 

Barrister

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Hey there. I'm new to this forum but was familiar with it in my early 20s and used to follow the forum for a short period.

Anyway, I'm here to share a recent experience with everybody to gain clarity (writing it down helps and when it is exposed to the public your biases are exposed). I am interested in other's people's perspectives, and what they think can be learned from the experience. I am here for a better understanding.

So let me put it out there as simply and clearly as I can muster:

A 22 y/o colleague at my work place is newly employed and I engage and arrange a date within two weeks. We begin to hook up.

I learn that she had recently come out of a 3 year relationship with a man in his mid-40s (divorced, 2 kids, one of which is her best friend). She moved out from his place and city and to another town (within driving distance) and initiated the break up due to his behaviour.
Post-break up, he regularly communicates with her over the phone in an attempt to get her back.

To begin with, I clearly function as a tool to manipulate his emotions and as rebound (provide her with self-esteem). I am uncomfortable with the former, and quickly demand not to be involved in her relationship and for her not to speak of him while we are together - this is respected.

We see each other very frequently (an error on my behalf, it was exciting, and I undermined my other responsibilities). His calls and texts are frequent. He would sometimes call multiple times whilst we were together (of-course, only to be ignored).

Two months in, she is still in frequent contact with him. They are or must be bargaining and negotiating terms, I realise. They never really broke up. She wants a baby and a long-term partner. He demonstrates through his actions high interest and low probability of abandonment. He has adequate social status and resources. I am told by her that she is considering of getting back with him and that he agreed to provide her with a baby (I originally thought this was a lie when I was made aware).

Soon enough, she puts aside less time for me, and sees him during weekends. Quickly after, an offer of friendship is made with me, and the negotiation is complete, she returns to him. His understanding is that we "only kissed". Naturally, her "offer" is rejected, and no time or energy on my part is invested into her outside of work purposes.

Over the next month (May), she makes attempts at setting up a rendezvous outside of work with me - this is rejected, and the personal relationship ends (although she does initiate and engage at work). She says "she hates me" and "I am a bad person" frequently with a smile or whilst laughing (a sign of her immaturity), and there's sexual tension and she's often nervous, but I do not engage.

I now learn she is 3 months pregnant.

That's it, folks. I see this as a big 'win' for her and I am somewhat surprised at the actions and decisions that man has taken.


Any questions? What are your thoughts?
Are you at all concerned the child may be yours? That’s cutting it pretty close with that “3 month” mark she’s giving you. Hopefully you had protection. Bad enough to get her knocked up — can’t imagine the nightmare it would be to have her living with another man with your kid right out of the gate.
 

CAPSLOCK BANDIT

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I was watching this video the other day, made a great point.

I believe that a woman who can take a homeless man off the streets and turn him into something, that is a quality woman... I mean I understand barring the logistics of actually doing it, the sentiment behind the saying, a good woman supports you.

So what do we have today, do we have women taking homeless men and turning them into successful men or do we have women taking successful men and turning them into homeless men?

The answer is clear as day.
 

Vlyo

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Are you at all concerned the child may be yours? That’s cutting it pretty close with that “3 month” mark she’s giving you. Hopefully you had protection. Bad enough to get her knocked up — can’t imagine the nightmare it would be to have her living with another man with your kid right out of the gate.
I've considered it and it is possible but unlikely (given that protection was used and her pregnancy stage). I learned about her pregnancy through somebody else and would not have known about it otherwise as she's left.

I will contact her to get more info. soon.
 

Vlyo

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Are you at all concerned the child may be yours? That’s cutting it pretty close with that “3 month” mark she’s giving you. Hopefully you had protection. Bad enough to get her knocked up — can’t imagine the nightmare it would be to have her living with another man with your kid right out of the gate.
I was hesitant but my plan is to contact her, determine if she's confident about who the child belongs to, and co-operate and cover the costs of DNA testing if she's willing without her boyfriend knowing if necessary..

If it is mine, well, that's something I'll need to think about and prepare for.
 
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Vlyo

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Well, fellas, that blew up in my face.

No response and blocked when asked if she's sure.

Hey-ho.
 

Zimbabwe

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Well, fellas, that blew up in my face.

No response and blocked when asked if she's sure.

Hey-ho.
I have been through a very similar situation when the condom broke with this tinder date. 9 months later she had a baby and was married to some guy.

I also wouldn't be surprised if other users had a similar experience

I've considered it and it is possible but unlikely (given that protection was used and her pregnancy stage). I learned about her pregnancy through somebody else and would not have known about it otherwise as she's left.

I will contact her to get more info. soon.
Maybe she wanted a child from an alpha male and wanted to get pregnant before going back to her beta provider.
 

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Vlyo

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Perhaps.

Imo, she's protecting her relationship and my contact or communication with her is a threat.

If the child isn't mine, which it likely isn't, she likely perceived my query as absurd, malicious, and a risk to her current relationship with an invested, reliable soon to be father. Alternatively, she could misinterpret my contact with her as interest in her, and that's threatening in a different way (e.g. being perceived as a stalker).

The reason my communication is a threat is because of the decision she made to misinform him about the nature of our relationship prior to them getting back together.

I probably shouldn't have even contacted her, hopefully, no consequences follow past the blocking. I'm playing with fire.
 
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